hi i am new to the forum and really need help..i dont know how this eq works..can anyone tell me in layman terms how this level freq and width works in practical terms..also which mic preset to use for a rode condenser mic.
TOM D.

Hi Tom,

Very basically............The parametric eq allows you to select a specific frequency (or frequency band) and apply a refuction or boost of level to it.

So....You select the frequency that you want to adjust and apply either a cut (- level) or boost (+ level) to it. The width control determines how wide a band (bandwidth) of frequencies you wish to control, the narrowist setting will apply adjustments to that frequency only where a wider setting will apply the adjustment to a group of frequencies either side of the selected one (the centre of the band/range). The amount of cut/boost gradually decreases for the selected frequencies as they get further away from the prime target frequency allowing for a more 'natural' sound when the filter is applied.

I shouldn't worry about this control too much it really is mostly used for reducing problems with room acoustics where certain frequencies cause problems due to the shape/size of the room, for reducing feedback and for special effects.

Personally I have hardly ever had to use it in a live situation and you really need to understand a little about the frequency spectrum to use it successfully. My advice would be to leave it alone until you have done some research and learned more about the subject.

Hope this was clear and most of all helpful, please ask again if you don't understand any of it.

Hi, Tom:

To start with:

Don't use the ParaEQ for the initial stages of getting "just that sound". For now, just push the knob so the ParaEQ is on Bypass. (I would also start by ensuring that the other effects, such as Reverb, are also on Bypass, for now.)

The first thing to do is select the ToneMatch which corresponds to your guitar (or vocal mic, or any other instrument).

If your guitar (mic, etc) isn't listed, then:
-- Check if it is listed in one of the newer downloadable ToneMatch "banks" available from Bose's collaboration with a number of instrument manufacturers.
-- If it is still not listed, then the best thing to do is try the existing (or downloaded) ToneMatch variations and decide which one gets "closest" to the sound you are desiring.

Next, switch to the zEQ setting. Once you've selected a ToneMatch (previous step), then the zEQ is "optimized" for that ToneMatch. Try adjusting the Low, Mid, or High zEQ knobs to see if you can improve on the sound you desire. Remember that with the "push of a knob" you can bypass the affect of that knob, making it very quick to compare the setting being off or on (that is, you don't have to turn the knob back to zero to compare -- just push it to either bypass or re-enable the setting).

At this point, I'd save your settings as a "Scene", so you can quickly come back to this as a kind of "baseline" configuration.

Now, as you listen critically to your sound, is there one particular note, or a range of adjacent notes, which don't sound "quite right" when compared to the rest of the guitar? Or perhaps there is a particular frequency (pitch) that just seems either too bright or 'missing', and you can't seem to properly "fix" that sound with the zEQ controls? If either of those situations exist, then you can try using the paraEQ (which is short for Parametric Equalizer) to help adjust that particular range of notes/frequencies.

The paraEQ has three basic controls: a "center frequency", a "width" around that center frequency, and the amount of change (plus or minus) one applies to that "center frequency". On some mixers, this is also known as a "notch filter" because one of the uses is to "notch-out" (greatly reduce) a narrow band of frequencies. This is a very flexible "tool", but it is NOT often too helpful for "general tone-shaping" -- the ToneMatch and zEQ controls are best for overall tone-shaping. The paraEQ is best for managing very specific, rather well-defined "problem" frequencies.

Most people don't use the paraEQ for "tone-shaping" (although it can be used that way), but use it primarily to "tame" one particular resonant frequency on their instrument.

Only after you have the "tone" just right would I even consider using any other effects.

Does that help?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dan Cornett,

L1&trade Wiki

quote:

also which mic preset to use for a rode condenser mic.

Hi Thomas,

There are no Bose Presets designed for use with condenser microphones at this time.
Bose presets are all tailored using an eat-the-mic approach for dynamic mics...lips touching the mic.
Condenser mics are subject to much feedback when aimed toward any speaker array such as the L1 system.

Several bluegrass groups here in the forums have had success with large diaphragm condensers, typically when the L1s are off-to-the-side or in-front-of the instruments. So you would need to decide how you will be using your L1 before adding condenser mics to the equation.

What is your need for a condenser mic over a dynamic?

Hi Thomas and Drumr,

I don't mean to step on Drumr's toes, but I think he has assumed condenser, in this instance, means large diaphram studio mic.

While I don't think there are any presets specifically for Rode mics, there is at least one for a condenser mic. The Neumann KMS 105 is a handheld condenser.

If your Rode ia a large diaphram "studio" mic it may be difficult to achieve good volume before feedback with the L1 behind you.

On the other hand if your Rode is a handheld mic, try the Neumann preset, as well as any of the other "handheld" mic presets. I have a feeling one will suit you.

O..

hi eric,sson...thanks a lot for the advice..i kind of understand it more now..you have explained it very eloquently...i have been trying to use it to help shape the mic sound along with the zeq..i think i have been worrying too much about it..thinking it would improve the mic sound..my fear is not getting the best from the system...maybe i should also explain that i have a severe hearing loss problem..i am totally deaf in one ear and the other one is maybe running on minus 50% so everything i do has to be qualified with whether i"m hearing it correctly or not..a real bummer for a musician..i will now bypass para eq..one thing i dont understand is how do you (select the frequency you want to adjust)also i have been trying to get a decent sound on my sm58 using the tonematch setting without much success..i know about close mic technic but i cant seem to get any headroom on the mic..which i like and can get with my old dynacord system..in my situation i can only place the l1 behind and to the left a little, no more than 4feet away..do you have any suggestions about fixing this and do you have any suggestions for overall settings on reverb delay compression etc. to get a really good mic sound..again thanks for the help...and would it be ok to add you to buddy list if i can figure out how to do it..when i have tried to add user and put in a name nothing appears in the buddy list box...as you can see its all very new to me and i have never been on any kind of forum before...also what is notifications and signature on this page and should not.be on or off and should sig.be ticked or not?....again many thanks...Tom.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric'sson:
Hi Tom,

Very basically............The parametric eq allows you to select a specific frequency (or frequency band) and apply a refuction or boost of level to it.

So....You select the frequency that you want to adjust and apply either a cut (- level) or boost (+ level) to it. The width control determines how wide a band (bandwidth) of frequencies you wish to control, the narrowist setting will apply adjustments to that frequency only where a wider setting will apply the adjustment to a group of frequencies either side of the selected one (the centre of the band/range). The amount of cut/boost gradually decreases for the selected frequencies as they get further away from the prime target frequency allowing for a more 'natural' sound when the filter is applied.

I shouldn't worry about this control too much it really is mostly used for reducing problems with room acoustics where certain frequencies cause problems due to the shape/size of the room, for reducing feedback and for special effects.

Personally I have hardly ever had to use it in a live situation and you really need to understand a little about the frequency spectrum to use it successfully. My advice would be to leave it alone until you have done some research and learned more about the subject.

Hope this was clear and most of all helpful, please ask again if you don't understand any of it.

Hi Dan, thanks for the help..i think i undestand it more now and will bypass it for now...i was trying to shape the mic sound usin both eq"s...how can you check if your mic or guitar is listed on newer tonematch banks ie.do you have to download them to do this..also do you have any suggestions for all settings..rev.. delay..comp..etc to get a good sound on an sm58..also i cant seem to get any headroom on the mic.and i do understand about close mic technic..also is it ok that i made you a buddy as i am new to all this and have never been on anykind of forum before..thanks again...Tom.

quote:

Originally posted by Dan Cornett:
Hi, Tom:

To start with:

Don't use the ParaEQ for the initial stages of getting "just that sound". For now, just push the knob so the ParaEQ is on Bypass. (I would also start by ensuring that the other effects, such as Reverb, are also on Bypass, for now.)

The first thing to do is select the ToneMatch which corresponds to your guitar (or vocal mic, or any other instrument).

If your guitar (mic, etc) isn't listed, then:
-- Check if it is listed in one of the newer downloadable ToneMatch "banks" available from Bose's collaboration with a number of instrument manufacturers.
-- If it is still not listed, then the best thing to do is try the existing (or downloaded) ToneMatch variations and decide which one gets "closest" to the sound you are desiring.

Next, switch to the zEQ setting. Once you've selected a ToneMatch (previous step), then the zEQ is "optimized" for that ToneMatch. Try adjusting the Low, Mid, or High zEQ knobs to see if you can improve on the sound you desire. Remember that with the "push of a knob" you can bypass the affect of that knob, making it very quick to compare the setting being off or on (that is, you don't have to turn the knob back to zero to compare -- just push it to either bypass or re-enable the setting).

At this point, I'd save your settings as a "Scene", so you can quickly come back to this as a kind of "baseline" configuration.

Now, as you listen critically to your sound, is there one particular note, or a range of adjacent notes, which don't sound "quite right" when compared to the rest of the guitar? Or perhaps there is a particular frequency (pitch) that just seems either too bright or 'missing', and you can't seem to properly "fix" that sound with the zEQ controls? If either of those situations exist, then you can try using the paraEQ (which is short for Parametric Equalizer) to help adjust that particular range of notes/frequencies.

The paraEQ has three basic controls: a "center frequency", a "width" around that center frequency, and the amount of change (plus or minus) one applies to that "center frequency". On some mixers, this is also known as a "notch filter" because one of the uses is to "notch-out" (greatly reduce) a narrow band of frequencies. This is a very flexible "tool", but it is NOT often too helpful for "general tone-shaping" -- the ToneMatch and zEQ controls are best for overall tone-shaping. The paraEQ is best for managing very specific, rather well-defined "problem" frequencies.

Most people don't use the paraEQ for "tone-shaping" (although it can be used that way), but use it primarily to "tame" one particular resonant frequency on their instrument.

Only after you have the "tone" just right would I even consider using any other effects.

Does that help?

Hi Drumr...thanks for your help..the mic. is not large diaphram just a rode stick mic...and i like it for more power and clarity than my sm58...but your right about the feedback..also i like some headroom on the mic which i dont seem to be able to get with sm58 using close mic tequnique...in my situation i can only get the l1 about 4 feet behind and to the left alittle..the mic seems (closed) and not open like when i use my old dynacord pa..and as i have a severe hearing problem anything that makes me hear myself singing better is a big plus for me...its one of the reasons i bought the system in the first place..but so far its not working out that way so any help is appreciated..also are you actually a drummer..i only ask this as i played drums myself for 35yrs before changing to playing guitar and singing...can you help with any suggested settings...rev. delay..compression etc for a good mic. sound using my sm58..is it ok i added you as a buddy..as i am new to forum and need all the help i can get..thanks again...Tom.

quote:

Originally posted by Drumr:

quote:

also which mic preset to use for a rode condenser mic.

Hi Thomas,

There are no Bose Presets designed for use with condenser microphones at this time.
Bose presets are all tailored using an eat-the-mic approach for dynamic mics...lips touching the mic.
Condenser mics are subject to much feedback when aimed toward any speaker array such as the L1 system.

Several bluegrass groups here in the forums have had success with large diaphragm condensers, typically when the L1s are off-to-the-side or in-front-of the instruments. So you would need to decide how you will be using your L1 before adding condenser mics to the equation.

What is your need for a condenser mic over a dynamic?

Hi olghm, thanks for replying..the rode mic. is a stick mic handheld..so i will try that preset if i have it i!m not sure about that as i dont have the t1 here at the moment..will let you know how i get on..i also have an sm58..but not any headroom with this using the preset..any suggestions or settings...delay..reverb..compression etc to fix this...thanks again..Tom.

quote:

Originally posted by Oldghm:
Hi Thomas and Drumr,

I don't mean to step on Drumr's toes, but I think he has assumed condenser, in this instance, means large diaphram studio mic.

While I don't think there are any presets specifically for Rode mics, there is at least one for a condenser mic. The Neumann KMS 105 is a handheld condenser.

If your Rode ia a large diaphram "studio" mic it may be difficult to achieve good volume before feedback with the L1 behind you.

On the other hand if your Rode is a handheld mic, try the Neumann preset, as well as any of the other "handheld" mic presets. I have a feeling one will suit you.

O..

Hi, again, Tom!

regarding "headroom" ... how close are you standing to the L1 and how big is the room?

Often, when "trying things out" in a small room, the sound can be really "weird" and not sound good at all and be difficult to control.

For example, a friend was having LOTS of problems in a room ~8'x10' -- After a bit of fiddling with the gain-staging, replacing bad cables, etc., then when the L1 was moved into a living room (about twice as large) for a house concert, everything sounded much better -- and no problems with "headroom" or feedback.

quote:

any suggestions or settings...delay..reverb..compression etc to fix this...thanks again

The best advice for *fixing* your sound is to avoid the above *effects* altogether, until you've really mastered the basics: system placement, your position onstage, volume/gain staging, and EQ.

quote:

Originally posted by Oldghm:
I don't mean to step on Drumr's toes, but I think he has assumed condenser, in this instance, means large diaphram studio mic.

Yes...I've not yet seen a Rode "handheld" condenser mic, I assumed a *studio* type.

quote:

Originally posted by thomas doyle:...one thing i dont understand is how do you (select the frequency you want to adjust)...

Hi Tom,

This is where you really need a little more knowledge and experience so I suggest that you search the internet or find a good book on sound processing and learn about the frequency spectrum which will help you to know where to start. For now you will have to use your ears (sorry, I know yours are not perfect) to identify where the problem frequency lies (ie is it in the bass, mid or high range of frequencies?), from then on it's trial and error to locate the exact spot.

One way to do this, let's say for reducing feedback, would be to apply some boost with the Para EQ level control then, whilst playing some music through the system, slowly scan through the frequencies using the freq control until the sound really leaps out at you or starts to feedback, that will be your problem frequency and the one to apply some cut in level to.

The more practice you have the easier it gets (still not that easy though).

quote:

also i have been trying to get a decent sound on my sm58 ..do you have any suggestions about fixing this and do you have any suggestions for overall settings on reverb delay compression etc. to get a really good mic sound..

A good mic sound is a very personal thing so again you'll have to use your ears and what I suggest is that you start off with the basic preset for your mic, get the gain set properly with the Trim control then try it out as it is with no other processing or effects. Stand away from the speaker and listen to how it sounds and if you don't like it try to figure out what it is you don't like about the basic sound and apply some eq if you really have to, I usually apply a little mid range boost to make my vocal cut through a little more (don't apply too much as it will make your voice sound 'boxy'), others prefer to cut the bass a little to avoid a 'boomy' effect.

If you can't get the kind of sound you like with this preset try another one or use the clean No EQ for DJ's etc setting and start again.

Once you have this basic sound somewhere about right it's time to look for a decent reverb so experiment with the different types to find one you like. Try a small or medium room or a plate reverb to start with as these are good for most purposes (I prefer the plates myself), keep the reverb level down so that it doesn't overpower the main vocal which will allow your voice to sound more 'up front' in the mix and adjust the mix in live situations according to the room acoustics and audience situations.

At gigs during soundcheck I always set my mic level first getting a good working volume on my vocal before I add backing, once set I don't normally adjust the mic level again, if the mix needs adjustment I only correct the backing or the master volume. If you can't hear your vocal then back off the backing a little, if you up the master to get more volume and start getting feedback you'll have to back it off again or re-think the positioning of your monitor. I don't use compression in my setup as I prefer to control the mic myself and don't really like that 'compressed' sound when it is overdone but if you're unable to hold the mic or adjust it's proximity while you sing then a little compression may be useful, I can't really advise on any settings for this but maybe someone else on the forum can.

quote:

..and would it be ok to add you to buddy list ..

Sure you can add me to your 'Buddy' list if you wish.

quote:

...also what is notifications and signature......

If you turn 'Notifications' on you will be notified by email every time a reply has been posted to this topic. Signature is something you can edit in your personal profile that will be displayed at the end of every post you make, check out some of the others' signatures, some are quite funny.

All the best for now and remember 'Less is best' most of the time.

Hi Eric'sson,

We have some articles about using the T1® Para EQ - specifically for tracking down and taming problem frequencies.

T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine / Using the Para EQ to Control Feedback

and a more general discussion about how it works

Understanding the T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine Para EQ

quote:

This is where you really need a little more knowledge and experience so I suggest that you search the internet or find a good book on sound processing and learn about the frequency spectrum which will help you to know where to start. For now you will have to use your ears (sorry, I know yours are not perfect) to identify where the problem frequency lies (ie is it in the bass, mid or high range of frequencies?), from then on it's trial and error to locate the exact spot.

thomas ...
You've gotten some great advice so far, so I won't muddy the waters. But let me reiterate - the Para EQ is probably not the first place to direct your attention.

Just for clarification - are you using a

RØDE S1

Hi Tom,

Here's a link to an interactive frequency chart that will help you to understand a little more about music frequencies and their relationships to various instruments and voices.

Edit: sorry forgot the link - http://www.independentrecordin...art/main_display.htm

Here's another link that explains a bit more in layman's terms:

http://www.independentrecordin...art/main_display.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Eric'sson:
Hi Tom,

Here's a link to an interactive frequency chart that will help you to understand a little more about music frequencies and their relationships to various instruments and voices.

http://www.independentrecordin...art/main_display.htm

Thanks Eric'sson,

This is a great interactive teacher, even seasoned pros will benefit from a click on this link.

O..

re: Interactive frequency chart

Yes, thanks! ... even if it is a little off for the pipe organ low end (32' pedal stops do typically go all the way down to C-zero -- ~16Hz!).