Let me start off by saying I truly respect free enterprise. I also love the sound,portabilty and customer service that I've received from my L1. Having purchased one myself and being responsible for the purchase of sveral other bose systems for friends, I feel I have the right to sound off a little bit.

To experience the full effect of the bose system each member of the band should have one, you're not going to win a p*ssing contest with anyone who plays straight through a guitar amp. The system is not designed to compete. When the volume wars start everyone loses, but at least the L1 player won't be the one getting blamed


In a four piece band you're looking at some serious coin a minimum of eight grand with the original L1 and NOW 12 GRAND!!! for the new system with the T1's -a $500 upgrade to fix the flaws of the original system(no reverb a lack of inputs and outputs) It just seems like a tuff sell. would I like to have one? sure. unfortunatley it won't happen soon at that price.IMHO BOSE should offer a discount to all of the people who helped make this "New Approach" so popular,the ones who took that $2000 gamble to try something different and talk the rest of there bandmates into going along.

quote:

a $500 upgrade to fix the flaws of the original system

I disagree, the Classic L1 is not flawed in it's original intent, one per player, and it still stands as a revolutionary product.

Bose now gives us what we repeatedly asked for, and some great improvements and features we never considered.
They deserve a raise. It's worth the price.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DrumrPete,

Overpriced? Isn't everything?

It's all relative to what your wanting.

We just upgraded/downsized from 2x Community CSX57-S2's (145 lbs each) 2x Community CSX40-S2's (90 lbs each) 4x Community CSX38-S2's (about 20 lbs each) 16 Channel Mackie VLZ-Pro board, 2x Crown K2 Poweramps (25 lbs each) assorted effects, cables, etc.
All this is replaced by 4 L1 systems which sound just as good if not better than ALL of the other gear.
We paid about 6k for all the old gear when we started this band, everything was used except for the K2's and cables, and the DBX, and Compressors.
We were also looking at downsizing to some Really sweet JBL's but we would still be hauling around the Power Amps, Board, Monitors, etc..
And those were gonna run $1800 each x 4

We cut our set up/sound check time from 90 minutes to 45 minutes, and our tear down load out time went from 1 hour to a mere 30 minutes. Not to mention we can fit our whole PA in our Singers car, instead of having to have 2 trucks just for the PA.

Are we happy with the price?

NO!!!

We're exstatic!!!!!

Couldn't agree more Buddy - I wished the new features had been there all along - BUT - no one bought the L1 classic system thinking "Well, I know the pix didn't actually SHOW the verb unit or extra inputs... but I bet they're probably in there!"

Seriously though (no stone to throw so no harm meant there!) I really felt the lack of inputs and verb unit was a large oversight when the original came out. I posted somewhere around here, regarding the flawed logic of "singers don't need verb" as some were originally saying. I believe the original intent of 1 musician 1 tower was a great idea but the actual use of the buyers showed we were willing to be quite creative in unforeseen configurations and for the most part were thrilled with the unexpected results.

A nice example was our purchase - 3 double bass systems and a Packlite. The original thinking was guitar in one w/B1, keys in one w/B1, bass/drums in one with 4B1s (Vox to be spread out evenly across the systems). The reality worked out to be vox spread out like we expected, keys in one tower, and guitar in two towers (talk about a HUGE sounding guitar rig!!!!), bass in one tower using 4 B1s, and drums sometimes in tow towers with a total of 5 B1s!?!

Sounds strange but it works. Still - the T1's verb would come in handy at one point (the verb and the mutes - well, the scene storage wouldn't be a bad plus either!) but the issue of bank for the buck is clearly a nonstarter for us!

We will have paid off our $6800 investment this month (10 months - 2 months earlier than we expected!) and the only additional purchases we have made in audio for the past 10 months have been two keyboard cases (ATA style - $500 total - they make wonderful L1 tower section transports! We put three sections in each wheeled case - easy and super safe!).

So, though the new features are nice, we feel no need to upgrade and definitely don't feel "cheated". We may pony up $500 for a single T1 for BGV processing at some point - but $500 for an additional input, the processors, and the snapshot capabilities is ridiculously low. You'll not find a vocal strip that will do all that in this price point.

Again - I think the systems (both new and old) are fairly priced and worth the investment.

Obviously every business, including Bose, needs to understand what their "price point" limits are in order to be successful. I am sure that with the Bose system there is a breaking point somewhere. However, speaking strictly from a guitarist's viewpoint, I am ok with the current pricing. I think partially that is because pricing on many higher end guitar amps frequently equals of exceeds the Bose price. Plus, with the Bose I am getting a system that also handles my vocals and provides much better sound distribution than a traditional guitar amp. Tone "generation" issues aside, I just don't want to play at large guitar amp stage volume any more. It's just not fun and frankly exlcudes many potential venues from hosting live music, and many potential patrons from enjoying it. I am doing solo and duo stuff right now, and I appreciate how it could be more of a challenge to convince an entire ensemble of this approach.

I wish we could get away from words like "flaws" and "oversights".
How about calling them "choices"?

I know Bose considered many, many options before releasing the Classic L1,
and they released what they collectively deemed was the best possible device for the one-per-player purpose.
I think they succeeded with flying colors, and have done so again with the Model II.

When I sold Japanese electronics in the early 80's, the trainer told me two things. Just remember rule 1 is that the American consumer is cheap and stupid. They don't know much about electronics, and they won't pay for good equipment. Rule 2 is see rule 1.

I was selling VCR's and audio, and I found many people who fit that bill. However, there were enough people who were willing to listen to the reason's why good equipment made sense, and was worth the money, that I was the number 1 high end video and audio sales person for 4 years in a row.

The Bose name and what it stands for, is great audio on all levels. From their Wave Radio's and headphones to the L1.

I know there is cheaper equipment available, but what do you get? Cheaper equipment. You also lose out on the excellent service that a company like Bose provides.

I also know that there are a lot of people who are willing to find out why the price is high, they want the best equipment money can buy and are willing to pay for it.

If you are one of them, then dig deeper, read this forum, and you will hear from people who are getting better paying gigs, and referrals just from the fact that they are using Bose equipment, not to mention the better sound, and all the characteristics that make the L1 what it is.

I will never regret the money that I paid for great equipment. My L1, and my Taylor Guitar are the most money that I have ever spent on music, unless I include all the bad equipment that I had before I got them.

Just a thought.

quote:

The Bose name and what it stands for, is great audio on all levels. From their Wave Radio's and headphones to the L1.

Hah! How true. Last week we got our daughter a graduation gift. We wanted to get her something semi-portable to play her IPOD on. Looked at many options, tried them out, were about to buy a mid-range one, and then ... We just couldn't. We looked at each other at the cash register and literally, at the same time, said something to the effect of, "we can't stick our daughter with inferior sound," and rushed back to the Bose Sound Dock section. Fortunately they still had them in stock. Our daughter was totally stoked. Here's to lifelong good listening!

Hi:

I'm in agreement with you that the L1/II is too expensive. But so are most things (as one other poster mentioned).

Evidence of the L1 being too expensive is to be seen, I believe, in the fact that not everyone who plays though an L1 has it just for their own use. There are a lot of L1 users who share the L1 with one or more other musicians - because of the high cost of buying into the L1 approach. If L1's were more readily affordable more of us would own more than one of them I'm certain. I know I would!

When I play as part of a duo, with occasional back-up vocals, there are not two L1's, only one. Primarily because of the high price.

However, while I do believe they are too expensive, they do offer a solution that is not to be found very readily using competitors products. I almost gave up live performance before I bought my L1. The L1 solved about 98% of my sound issues - in the space of about two hours in one evening! And what about the 'break your back' factor. The Bose is a breeze to load in and out of venues. Set up (for me) is almost non-existant. Put a value on your time and see how much time (translate that to $$$) you save in a year now that you're transporting an L1 everywhere.

Then there is the issue of customer service. This is only my personal opinion, and others might disagree, but customer service always has - and always will - come at a price. A less expensive product, with little to no customer service is just about useless to me. I consider customer service a high requirement in most of my purchase decisions...just in case there might be an issue with the product, I don't want the run-around, etc. I haven't had to avail myself of Bose's customer service just yet but everything I've heard seems to indicate that they know how to take care of their customers. That has to be factored in to the price of the product, I think.

So yes...the L1 is too expensive, I'm convinced. But that just means you have to save a bit more money and/or live like a pauper for a while (like I do) to get one. I won't have an L1/II till next year sometime...but I expect I'll get one eventually. Meanwhile my L1 Classic is working out just fine.

Good luck,

Stu

This message has been edited. Last edited by: StuartD,

Hello ,
Just to let some of the newbies know why the new LII is more expensive .
When the L1 first came out , there was a lack of all the extra inputs and effects . Soon after people started using the L1 , complaints were made about lacking effects , extra inputs etc.
Bose , in several posts , explained why they left out these features ,to make the L1 more affordable . They stated to add these features would raise the price of the unit up . Well it did .
The good part is you can still buy the Classic L1 and use all your current external effects ,at the original lower price ,or if you like the added effects and features you can purchase the newer one at a higher price , your choice. Nothing great in life comes without a price . In Bose defense , they did inform us about price change . There are still more wish lists they receive everyday about the system , and with all these wish list items added , there will be a price to pay . Just IMHO - J.D.

I've said plenty on this forum about the pricing of the new Model II, and also, the absence of some price incentive for current L1 owners to more easily upgrade to the new model. So I'm not going to repeat myself in detail, other than saying that for me, though I have an original L1, and consider the price of that unit to be just fine, I think that the Model II (without the T1) is priced about $500 to high for "what it is". I am considering alternative equipment that costs as much or more, so my issue is value, and not raw price. But for my bandmates, the high price IS a major issue.

People have their reasons for feeling that the Bose Model is well worth every cent, and others have reasons for feeling that it is overpriced. I think that all of these reasons, on both sides of the fence, are perfectly valid, and I sincerely doubt whether any post to contrary on either side of this issue will change the opinion of anyone who feels strongly enough about this issue to voice their opinion on this forum. I simply think that everybody is right, when speaking for themselves.

But I feel that the pricing is a major problem for Bose if they are marketing the new Model II as a solution for 4 and 5 piece bands using multiple units. And I believe that if this isn't plain as day now, it will be soon enough. For instance, I keep seeing requests on this forum from people in major metropolitan areas, like L.A, who want to see and hear a Bose equipped band and want to know where one is playing. I rarely see an answer. The response that I see on the most recent thread asking this question gives the date of Bose sponsored demonstrations at a Guitar Centers in the area. My own attempts to find a SINGLE band playing with multiple Bose L1's in the Chicago area (population of 6,000,000) over the last several months have met with no success.

Twice now, with two different bands, I've attempted, with no success, to convince everybody to go with Bose L1's. The price was a major factor both times. Given the scarcity of Bose equipped 4 and 5 piece bands, this appears to be somewhat of a universal phenomenon.

W.A.

Another thought,

In the past, it was one player, one unit. Now with added inputs and effects, maybe 2 players one unit?? I have been seeing the diagrams of set ups reflecting this thought.

I know the optimal would be the one to one, but potentially could be half the sticker if you did two per.

I am not saying that this is my philosophy, just that that was the way the trainer presented it.

I also agree that there are many levels of quality available in all areas of life, and many times it pays not to buy the cheapest product out there.

A good example is my Mom. She was a nurse for 38 years, and always bought the cheapest shoes that she could find.

If she would have spent $60 on a pair of shoes, they would have lasted her a year or more, and not lead to the foot problems that she currently has from buying the $15 shoes at Payless which never lasted more than 3 months.

Just a thought.

quote:

The irony is that now that I am having some reliability issues with my L1

What has happened with this David?
The " yellow light " thing...did you get a hold of tech support?
Has anything been done?

Hey David,

We are always interested in hearing whatever our fellow L1 users have to say, whiny or not.

Sorry to hear you will be without your PS1 for a bit.
I had a PS1 go out last year, and at that time Bose had inventory and they sent me a refurbed PS1, overnight.
I shipped back the faulty one in their carton.
The overnight shipping back was costly, but I was right back in business.

As you know, right now is a hectic time at Bose with all the changes going on.
The guys are really busy getting the pipeline flowing, I hope you get settled up quickly.
Hang in there.

PS
I know what you mean about deleting posts...I have to do that a lot.
When proofreading, I have to remind myself, "if you can't say something nice...".