Hi there,
I have 6 802's and i use them in different configurations for the different bands i play in.
In one band i use 4 of them, 2 stacked 2 high on each side of the back wall, either side of the drummer on stands as monitors, facing forward towards the audience (where a pair of L1's might go).
The other 2 are in a standard "Front Of House" position in front of the band.

In another band i use 2 at the back facing the front and 4 out front.

In both situations there is only one mix for the band and audience.
I mix from stage and i know whats going on out front. I use 1 ten band parametric eq to take care of feedback as there is only one mix, and the 2 Groups are happy with the sound.

When i get the money i'll add 2 mb4's.

It kind of emulates an L1 situation and is easy to set up and mix.

If i had the money i probably would buy 2 L1's and 4 b1's, but i am happy with what i have got and i am half way there with this set up.

Having 4 802's behind us is a very nice sound and with quite a good dispersion,
i might even try having all 6 behind the band where big volume in the audience isnt required.

I have thought about the idea of using 1 L1 as the monitor for the band and 4 802's out front. I could just about afford this now.

tOM

Gidday Tom,
Your approach will certainly work but I would respectfully suggest that you are creating a challenge for yourself by having so many different sound sources for the same signal.
I assume you are mixing the band through a normal mixer and sending the signal to all the speakers in each of your configurations.
Just have a think about this for a moment.
Take one of your input channels...... let`s use the lead vocal as that is the most prominent in most groups.
Now imagine you are sitting out in the audience just to house right of centre and midway back.
Where is the sound you are hearing of the lead vocal coming from.
First arrival is from FOH right, followed by rear wall right, followed by FOH left and then rear wall left.
Can you see where I am coming from. The sound will be smeared, that`s SSMEEAREAARREARREEDDED.

That is the feature of the L1 system, one sound from one source.

Hi Tom,

Thanks for sharing your ideas with us.

The 802s are nice speakers, I used the first of that series back in the 80s.
A single pair of them for a pretty loud rock outfit, they handled it well.
Although I couldn't hear it from my position on stage, audiences said they could hear our vocals clearly for the first time.

Your set ups sound pretty interesting, it would be fun messing around with those combinations.
I am the same way with my L1s, I like to try all kinds of arrangements.

Ian makes a good point too, the only thing missing is the one-system-per-player spacial imaging that the audience would get if you had multiple L1s. But that is another idea altogether, and involves money, and finding band mates who are open to change.
Not always an easy task.

It would be very interesting to see some pictures and video of your gigs.

quote:

Originally posted by IanHB:
Gidday Tom,
Your approach will certainly work but I would respectfully suggest that you are creating a challenge for yourself by having so many different sound sources for the same signal.
I assume you are mixing the band through a normal mixer and sending the signal to all the speakers in each of your configurations.
Just have a think about this for a moment.
Take one of your input channels...... let`s use the lead vocal as that is the most prominent in most groups.
Now imagine you are sitting out in the audience just to house right of centre and midway back.
Where is the sound you are hearing of the lead vocal coming from.
First arrival is from FOH right, followed by rear wall right, followed by FOH left and then rear wall left.
Can you see where I am coming from. The sound will be smeared, that`s SSMEEAREAARREARREEDDED.

That is the feature of the L1 system, one sound from one source.

Gidday Ian,
ex- Wellingtonian here. Thanks for your reply.
Firstly i understand what you say. I did'nt say in my post that i also use a set up with no monitors at all, where i use 2 pairs of 802's either side of the drums at the back of the stage. I would assume this set-up would have less delay issues as thesound comes from only 2 spots.

I also have a set up where i use my Yamaha stagepas500 (The stagepas500 has a very nice sound, to my ears 95% as good as 802's for a fraction of the price with built in powered mixer.) as monitors facing forward behind the band and 2 pairs of 802's FOH.
Is it possible that with this set-up having different speakers the sound is different therefore the timing issue would be less or not noticable?

Lastly with the set-up's in my post that you commented on, the monitors are maybe at 50% of the volume as the FOH so i think the audience would not be to affected by the timing issue.
TOM

quote:

Originally posted by DrumrPete:
Hi Tom,

Thanks for sharing your ideas with us.

The 802s are nice speakers, I used the first of that series back in the 80s.
A single pair of them for a pretty loud rock outfit, they handled it well.
Although I couldn't hear it from my position on stage, audiences said they could hear our vocals clearly for the first time.

Your set ups sound pretty interesting, it would be fun messing around with those combinations.
I am the same way with my L1s, I like to try all kinds of arrangements.

Ian makes a good point too, the only thing missing is the one-system-per-player spacial imaging that the audience would get if you had multiple L1s. But that is another idea altogether, and involves money, and finding band mates who are open to change.
Not always an easy task.

It would be very interesting to see some pictures and video of your gigs.

Hi Pete,
thanks for your post.
Unfortunately Bose UK doesnt do the 45 day trial, so i dont think my band mates would want to make such investments for 1 L1 each. That must be heaven.
So here i am making the best of my system. I'll take some photo's of some gigs soon.
TOM

I just off the phone with a tek'y at Bose UK. I asked him what the 802 controller does apart from the "U" shaped EQ curve, and he said it takes out peaks to protect the drivers, like compression.

I read a review about the BBE Sonic Maximizer 482i
http://geartronix.amazonwebsto...82i/M/B0002FDKIW.htm
where a guy uses this with 802's and simulates the "U" curve with a graphic EQ, but WITHOUT an 802 controller and he says the sound is great.
The Bose Tek'y said not to use the BBE Sonic Maximizer 482i with 802's, but it seems to be used with all kinds of studio and P.A. gear.
Why should the 802 and controller not be improved upon by it? There are countless reviews by users all saying it has transformed their sound.

Maybe the 802 controller does similar things to the signal path?

I am thinking of getting 2 MB4's, i wonder if the BBE Sonic Maximizer 482i and an EQ curve simulation would work with it to?

Thanks for any help on this TOM

Hi Tom,

I remember reading somewhere that the BBE Sonic Maximizer is a time alignment device. For some reason all frequencies don't travel through our equipment and arrive in the air as BBE thinks they should. Their devices somehow make all sounds arrive at the speaker cone at the appropriate time. According to BBE.

I don't see how this type of device could hurt your speakers.

I haven't looked today, but I believe this info is available on the Companies website.

I also believe that the Bose Controller is a little more sophisticated than a common smiley face eq curve. It also provides a level of protection for your speakers that is not available with a standard graphic eq.

O..

I bought and used a bbe maximiser years ago (back in the 802 days) and in my opinion after hours of critical listening, I experienced listener fatigue that did not happen when the bbe was not used. At first it seemed to add a crispness or clarity which sounded good but got old and seemed artificial to me.

The bbe seemed to work wonders for 2 way horn loaded systems such as monitor wedges-- a real improvement in clarity.

I still have the bbe and the 802's, they just don't get used any more, except for the pair in my living room hooked to an ancient Bose spatial control receiver. This set up sounds very good.

The L1 classic and compact are all I'll use for live sound events these days.

I used two pair of 802s for a long time and loved the sound. I traded them for a pair of acoustimass pro powered speakers. They were pretty heavy by Bose standards but they sounded much bigger than they appeared. (sound familiar). they didnt last long in the Bose product line, but I thought they were great.

I liked the sound straight out of the box, but I bought a BBE and hooked it up to them and it made a big difference to me. The bbe does work on some kind of time alignment and was kind of magical to me.

I have used those speakers in the past couple of years with L1s for an outside event in a local park. They still sound great, but are sooooo heavy.

Before the L1, my main personal system was a pair of 402s with an active crossover and an ev powered sub. It sounded really good but took a long time to set up.

Thank you Bose for the whole L1 family.

Rick

I always wanted a pair of AMpro's but they were elusive and actually I've never even got to hear them. I suspect the $3000.00+ ea. had something to do with their short tenure.

I think the bbe process delays frequencies from about 250 hz down which seemed to take a LOT of the muddiness away from two way (woofer/horn) systems.

Maybe I need to drag it out and try it on the classic and the compact just to see what it sounds like.

Here is a short read on the BBE.

http://pro-audio.musiciansfrie...Maximizer?sku=180910

O..

Hey Tom, was your dad Wilf the cello player from the NZSO? If so then I also knew your brother Ray.
As for your question regarding the 802 controller. It is the only devise that you should consider using with the 802 loudspeakers.IMHO.
BOSE was one of the first manufacturers to use the concept of "Processed Audio"
Now nearly every manufacturer uses the concept. A number of devises have the parameters included for a range of makes and models.
Most do not include BOSE as the brand has always had their own controllers specificly programmed for each model.
It is generally regarded as the best method of extracting the best performance from any loudspeaker enclosure.
Once you have the best reproduction delivered by your 802`s then you can tailor the sound to be anything you want.
Best wishes, Ian Hull-Brown.