Okay - I know that this should really be hombre a mono or something like that, but once a something hits a chord it just doesn't ring true if you correct it.

I hoped we could talk about "How many L1®s does one guy need?" or more politically correct - "What is the correct ratio of L1®s to performers?"

We seem to run the gamut from ...

Can I run my choir through one L1®?

I have an eight piece band ...

If we run just our vocals through it, what are the least number of L1®s that we need?

Can I use one (or two) as a PA?

Ensemble around a microphone.

Big Bands
(Chris Walden)

One L1® for each performer.

Vocal plus tracks into two.
(recently, Karen littleswan)

Stereo-way to heaven for Electric Guitar
(bdotson comes to mind)

Stereo Soundscapes for Keyboards
(Alan Steinberger)

Dual pickup systems in a single Acoustic Guitar to separate L1®s
(Rick Jordan rwj)

I don't think anyone has mentioned three L1®s for one performer, but I think I have seen pictures.


I've got a pretty simple view of this. If you have enough that you and the audience can hear everyone clearly, then you probably have enough L1®s. As long as we are serving the Music, then we are probably doing okay. But I think that is easier to do as we narrow the gap between the number of performers and the number of L1®s.

When we get to more L1®s than performers then we can start talking about how many 'voices' that performer has and if that performer is the whole show or part of an ensemble.

Somewhere in there we get to talk about how to make the connections, dual-mono: whys and why-nots, routing through the T1®, and a whole bunch of other details. People most frequently ask "how" but I think the first question is probably "why" or "when".

What do you think?

quote:

Originally posted by ST:
...Dual pickup systems in a single Acoustic Guitar to separate L1®s (Rick Jordan rwj)...

I don't think anyone has mentioned three L1®s for one performer, but I think I have seen pictures...

Rick Jordan did this at Little Switzerland:
One guitar pickup to Left L1.
Voice mic to Center L1.
Other guitar pickup to Right L1.
As I recall, the distance between them was about 15' each (i.e.: 30' between Left & Right) -- does someone who was involved in the setup recall more?

-- going further --

Think for a moment about a solo performer with multiple Midi modules driven by a sequencer. How about one L1 for each of the Midi modules -- in addition to the 'solo' instrument or voice!!

One can envision nearly recreating an orchestral experience (aurally, that is; the visual experience is another whole level of re-creation!) -- one L1 per 'section' of the orchestra, with a few more for the percussion instruments spread across the back.

quote:

Originally posted by Dan Cornett:
...One can envision nearly recreating an orchestral experience (aurally, that is; the visual experience is another whole level of re-creation!) -- one L1 per 'section' of the orchestra, with a few more for the percussion instruments spread across the back.

ok, my mind is busy 'vamping' on this!

• 5 L1's for each of the string sections (violin I, violin II, viola, cello, double-bass)
  
• 2 L1's for woodwinds (maybe 3 -- flutes, clarinets, and oboes; bassoons and lower reeds can share with the upper woodwinds)
  
• 2 L1's for trumpets, trombones, and tubas
  
• 2 L1's for French Horns (I like the sound of the F-horns ... and many compositions make use of the horns antiphonally)
  
• 1, perhaps 2, for timpani. 2 or 3 more for the rest of the percussion.
  
• 1 for the harp or other 'extra' instruments; a second for piano, if both are used.
  
  
• finally, one for a soloist (vocal or instrumental).

Lets see. 19 L1's + 19 Midi modules => roughly something less than $100,000 ... compare that to equipping a full symphony orchestra.


Perhaps, looking at the same thing another way ... a set of 18 performers could get pretty close to creating -- as a live performance -- a sonic effect similar to a full orchestra (with the right complement of instruments and electronics).

Back to perhaps the 'heart' of ST's note (in my view):

quote:

Originally posted by ST:
...People most frequently ask "how" but I think the first question is probably "why" or "when"...

In a simple way, I could characterize the 'ideal' as one L1 per 'unique voice' in one "aural space". (That last constraint separates out the situations where one wants to "project" the sound from one "space" into another, such as in separate rooms, on the other side of a building, etc.)

Since most of us are only talented enough to deal with two "live instruments" at a time (such as one for the mouth -- e.g.: voice or harmonica -- and one for the hands -- e.g. guitar, keyboard, etc), that implies to me that two L1's ought to the most that one person would usually need.

Even if I think about other instruments one might play in addition to those two -- such as the Porchboard Bass or the like --, those additional instruments are either not played at the same time or are in a 'sonically different space' such that putting them through a separate L1 would probably not add much to the overall 'sonic experience'.

-------

As I consider a solo performer with multiple MIDI modules they are controlling, when I 'visualize the sound' which might come from multiple L1's, I would imagine that about 3 would be maximum effective number on the stage -- again, for a 'soloist'. Any additional 'spatial sonic effects' would probably be more effective if the additional L1's were placed in other locations in the room (e.g.: along the walls or in the back).

Why? Because there isn't any 'live performer' to "anchor" the sound to a location. As such, I suspect that significant physical distance (or, perhaps more accurately, "angular distance") will be necessary to get effective 'localization' without a corresponding visual "anchor point".

Has this possible visual/aural localization connection been researched (in the public domain)? Perhaps it would be a fruitful study area, if not.

You may ask,

Why did you use 3 systems at LS?

Because I could.

It was fun to experiment with the soundstage that was possible using multiple systems, but I'm not sure it added that much musically.

I used 2 at the concert in Framingham and I think it sounded quite good, but I also saw and heard first hand what Larry did with one system, some great songs, a super voice, and a ton of heart. It was wonderful!!!

I own a classic and a model II but I almost always just use one when I do solo. It's probably because I'm just lazy and don't want to set two up.

I think clarity and coverage is perfect with just one. I think, with solo guitar, if you tend to use a lot of effects, it becomes more interesting. At LS I did put some chorus on one of the guitar outputs that seemed to give the sound more space, but I'm not sure I liked the tone all that much. I may have used too much chorus.

This is an interesting thread.

Rick

I don't know. I find myself tired tonight & really wanting simplicity, so one-per-performer in any situation from solo to big band seems to be preferable. I think if each player owns one & gets his/her sound the way he/she wants it, then there is no desire to share with another player & no need as long as there is space for the multiple systems. Keeping it as simple as possible with the most pristine sound is usually my modus operandi.

That said, I have had a desire to try two systems - one for guitar & one for voice - just to see what it would be like to have a system dedicated to one instrument at a time.

Tom