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L1® Users Forum Musicians General Forums What Do You Think of This New Approach? Hearing One's Self with the Bose System|
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Perhaps the bass feedback is being caused by resonance of the stage itself (this assumes that the mic is on a stand and not hand-held, which seems likely if you're playing a keyboard unless you have some REALLY unusual anatomy
 ). Try isolating the B1s by putting them on pads.Also...in my experience a little tweak of the EQ on the remotes goes a LONG way. ========== Bose L1(tm) Referral Specialist Bridgeport, Connecticut Contact me for a free demo adouglas (at) optonline (dot) net 203.258.7191 ========== http://www.coolshoesband.com |
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Hi Andrew,
Jimmy Keys said quote: So barring really unusual anatomy, I don't think it's stage resonance. But that's an interesting reminder about those horrible temporary stages you sometimes get in hotel ballrooms. |
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JImmy Keys here, thanks ST for the reply, I will definitely try moving the bass units out and your other suggestions.
I just did a show tonight, and for the first time only used one PAS instead of two (as on the first 2 gigs after buying the systems) it was a smaller audience of 150 ppl, and unfortunately I had terrible problems tonight with the sound. It was actually distorting quite badly when I started playing and singing at the same time tonight?? The only thing I had changed today was to turn up the trim on the voca and the keyboard. I found I had to do this becuase the system just was not (for some reason) as loud as the night before. I really need some help here as I do a lot of shows and the sound is VERY important. is it possible to get a Bose representative to come along on a show with me? I am frustrated because obviously I have just spent $4000 on this system, and I want it to work properly. Maybe I have it set up incorrectly becase the distortion was very bad tonight. Help please! Jimmy Keys |
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hey Andrew, thanks for your response. Unfortunately at almost every show I perfrom at, it is on a temporary stage/riser supplied by the venues I work at, these are the type rented for my show for the evening.
I just posted another message just now because as I said in the posting, I had really bad problems tonight at the gig. Actual distortion from using one PAS?? How high would anyone suggest setting the trim control? Maybe I have this too high? Could this cause the distortion. I also have on the remote, the master up full and the individual volumes on each channel at about 3/4. I am seriously considering returning the bose and reverting to my old mackie powered system, but really wnat the bose to work for me, but having a lot of problems. Jimmy keys |
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Jimmy,
Can you talk about your connections to the PS1 with the one PS1/L1 setup last night? I'd like to understand your setup and maybe recommend a couple things. Also, where was the MASTER set to where you heard the distortion? On channels one and two did you check the LED for a red indication? Thanks, Kyle-at-Bose quote: |
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Jimmy, as Kyle mentioned, setting the trims right on the input panel is sooooo important to get maxium gain before distoring. In fact, the only way I know of to get the system to distort the signal you send it is to overload the preamp and the trim LED will blink red indicating that it is clipping.
Also, have you listened to how loud your system is in the back of the room? If you're accustomed to it being super loud on stage and not so loud in the back, then you're in for a great surprise with the Cylidrical Radiator(tm) loudspeaker. It's going to "throw" like no other speaker you've experienced. It's important for you to experience this be cause it is so different than what you're accustomed too. Have someone play your keys while you walk the room. We can make this work. |
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quote: I'm talking about resonance coming up through the mic stand...how would a wireless mic be any different from a wired mic here? The important part is that it's on a stand instead of being hand-held. ========== Bose L1(tm) Referral Specialist Bridgeport, Connecticut Contact me for a free demo adouglas (at) optonline (dot) net 203.258.7191 ========== http://www.coolshoesband.com |
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quote: All the more reason to try isolating the bass modules from the stage to get rid of any potential resonance. ========== Bose L1(tm) Referral Specialist Bridgeport, Connecticut Contact me for a free demo adouglas (at) optonline (dot) net 203.258.7191 ========== http://www.coolshoesband.com |
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quote: |
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To Andrew Steve & Kyle,
You guys have been so kind to respond to my problems with my 2 new systems, thank you all. I am doing another show tonight, and after reading all your advice I am going to move the bass units a little, make sure the red light is not coming on by turning down the trims, and I think maybe not use my effects unit, becauce I suspect this was giving me some of the problems also. I will send a report about tonights show in the morning. I guess I am bascially finding it hard to fill the room aith my sound without having feedback on stage, plus the distortion problem, but I hope to fix that tonight. More tomorrow, thanks again, I really appreciate all your help, this is a wonderful service you offer with specialists contributing like this. Jimmy |
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Jimmy Keys,
Can you tell us if your wireless microphone is on a stand or (as I assumed) a headset type. Andrew... Just me leaping to conclusions from frail, fallacious, foundations. Of course, if it is on a stand, and as Jimmy keys has said he is on a temporary stage/riser, that dreaded stage resonance is a real possibility. quote: |
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The 80Hz high pass filters on my console clean up a lot of things like stage rumble and wind noise. Perhaps one of the presets has an 80 or 100Hz high pass filter programmed in. Anybody know?
Robert L |
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Jimmy Keys,
I've just come across this thread about running stereo with keys. http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=8206048934&f=8766055944&m=2016038075 I may have to recant about running stereo. Check out that discussion - especially if you are using nice piano patches on your keyboards. |
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Research & Development |
Yo Jimmy,
I don't think we're giving you the service you deserve. Something's obviously wrong. This is a situation where we need to talk to you voicebox to voicebox. Call the toll free 877 number and let's get to the bottom of this. There's no reason I can think of you can't be enjoying the benefits of this new system. With your permission and participation, we can post the results of our conversation with you here so that others can follow what happens. Call the 877 number okay? |
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Robert L and others...
In the FAQ section: Presets exposed! It says (emphasis mine) 10 80 Hz Highpass – This rolls off the deep bass. This is a very useful preset, especially for electronic keyboards and “flat” condenser microphones. For instance, many digital pianos will have a giant gob of bass in the lower left-hand. This never happens in a real piano, unless you listen right next to the soundboard. Many keyboards have a lot of deep bass and this part of the audio spectrum really tends to muddy the mix of a live band. If you insist on mega-bass levels from, say, your big fancy synth, go ahead with your bad self. But at least try cutting the deep bass with preset 10 and try to be objective with how this improves the sound of the whole band. This is a whole theme for live playing, by the way: Play your instrument, or play the tune? Play with the band, or play with yourself? With this new system, you can now hear your instrument and the whole band. How you sound and how the whole ensemble sounds is no longer a mystery. 11 5 kHz Lowpass – This rolls off the treble range of audio. This is useful for electric guitar with distortion, especially direct output of amplifiers using “amp load” boxes such as “Power Soak” and the like. These create a lot of high end, due to added harmonics caused by distortion, and de-emphasizing them might be a pleasant and welcome addition to this kind of sound. Try it also with any distortion processor or amp/speaker “modeler”. 12 80Hz/5Khz bandpass - This is also very useful for taking distorted guitar direct from a preamp or amplifier and making it sound a bit sweeter. This filter is also very useful for a lot of things and will sound a lot like 00 for some instruments that are “midrangey”. There are several other band-pass filters in the preset list that you can also use. |
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ST , thanks for pointing to that area of the FAQ. What is needed is a vocal mic patch with a highpass filter. According to the FAQ, all the vocal mics are programmed with,
"We also added a sharp low-cut filter, keeping only that part of the audio spectrum where the mic is useful, so that using the microphone with this preset minimizes bass regeneration." Highpass and low-cut are the same thing. So I'm wondering why there is a problem with stage rumble if a vocal mic preset is being used. With my "3 tier" system I can look at the RTA and visually identify and fix any such problem in a snap. Robert L |
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To All,
This may be taking this thread further OT, but lets talk about it anyway. I clicked the link and read the thread about stereo piano. Each time the talk of stereo comes up it is treated negatively by those who are supposed to know. If the PAS spreads the sound more evenly than any other system that is out there it doesn't make sense that it won't work in stereo. Assuming that Yamaha knows as much about electronic keyboards as Bose knows about speakers,(I hope that's not too big a stretch) there must be a good reason to build them in stereo. It would seem to me that if internal speakers sound good in stereo, then if the piano is hooked to two PAS units it should only sound better. The only question in my mind would be the width of the stereo field. If we would want the piano to sound like a piano, then the speakers probably shouldn't be any further apart than the length of the Piano. If the PAS works as advertised then all of the audience should hear the piano as it was designed to be heard. On the other hand if the two PAS's were set up 40 feet apart the audience and the player or band for that matter should hear what sounds like a piano that is 40 feet long, probably not the ideal in normal sized bars, clubs or small convention halls, but maybe not a bad idea in large arenas. This theory is based on the assumtion that the PAS performs as advertised and volume is even throughout the listening area that it is designed to cover, and that the piano's stereo field is split spatially left to right or low to high. Oldghm |
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The basic problem with stereo as I understand it is simple...in order to hear the stereo effect properly, you need to be more or less equidistant from both speakers: in the "sweet spot."
If you're sitting immediately in front of one speaker, you'll hear it more clearly than the other and the stereo illusion will be lost or at least severely degraded. Separating the two speakers too much causes the "sweet spot" to be distorted so much that you lose the effect. Try this with your home stereo: 1) Place the speakers as far apart as possible along the long axis of your room. Listen with your eyes closed and see if you can "place" the sound in space. 2) Now move them to the "ideal" position, so that you're sitting about 1.5x the distance between the speakers away from them, and facing them. (i.e., speakers six feet apart, with you nine feet from them.) Notice how much more vibrant the stereo image is. It's astonishing what a difference there is. What's also surprising is how much worse the image is when you move out of that sweet spot. Your example of a 40 foot separation for a stereo piano gives a pretty big venue size...arguably much larger than the PAS was designed for. In a venue that size, it's likely that you'd have a FOH system anyway, and all bets are off with stereo imaging in that case. With separation that great, the band itself won't be hearing the stereo effect either. Any given band member will be positioned much closer to one side of the image than the other and will hear it much more clearly. ========== Bose L1(tm) Referral Specialist Bridgeport, Connecticut Contact me for a free demo adouglas (at) optonline (dot) net 203.258.7191 ========== http://www.coolshoesband.com |
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Way back (previous page) when I was responding to Jimmy Keys (I wonder how the gig went last night) I got down this path...
quote: Still don't know why I had this 'gut' feel that 7-8' might work, but that seems to fit with Oldghm's idea about the length of the piano. Oldghm said quote: As far as the stereo thing in Yamaha pianos... my guess is, cause it sells a lot of pianos. Seriously. Robert L At 7-8' feet apart, much beyond the 1.5 times the distance between them, we are probably back to a virtual "mono". I'm guessing that the distance between the speakers is not enough to cause the issues that would arise with 40 feet of separation. |
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Hi everybody at the forum,
Jimmy Keys here, as promised I wanted to report on how my show went last night after having so much great advice from all of you at Bose and others too! It actually went much better with the sound (the show was a big success too!) I used both Pas units last night, there was about 160 ppl in the audience.I cut back on both the trims on my mike and keyboard. I also made sure that the red light was not coming on. I also faced the bass units out to the side of the stage more and slightly angled the 2 tower speakers out to the side a very little also, this helped a lot in reducing feedback. I did not use my effects unit at all, I actually find that the sound from the bose is so good that I don't hardly miss the reverb or effects. It also gave me a clearer sound than the night before by not using using the effects. The only strange thing I find is that the "slave PAS", not the one next to me but the one on the other side of the stage, is quite a bit more powerful than the main unit behind me?? Plus I actually had the settings on the master and both channels turned down lower on the slave side (if you know what I mean!) Any idea why this is occuring? By the way, I also as suggested ran one cable from my keyboard in to one PAS and another cable to the other PAS, this worked well. As you suggested I will give you guys at Bose a call direct. thanks for all your assistance so far. Jimmy |
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L1® Users Forum Musicians General Forums What Do You Think of This New Approach? Hearing One's Self with the Bose System|
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