The PAS first came to our school in October. I fought hard to get two at first. Everything that I read made sense, and most of all it looked like it would make my life easier (I am the only sound Tech and I play on the worship team). I run sound for everything on our small campus. We only have 500 students but seem to do much more than larger colleges.

On average, since October I have set-up the PAS 3 times a week. Most of the applications it has worked great. The systems have seen Dances, Chapel twice a week, lectures, dinner theater, coffee house concerts, CHOIR concert (this was cool). Anyways, we have done so much with these. We bought a third one to try and fix some of the problems.

We got the third system in January. We have been able to get rid of some equipment such as mixers etc...

The biggest frustration that has come about has been the issue of feedback. Since we got the systems our volume has gone done A LOT. I know that the sound is supposed to be "cleaner". But we can’t pump the mics up without getting feedback. I have tried hard with these things, tried hard to convince people that they are "better" its just not working or the same.

The sanctuary that we play in every Sunday night is about 90x40 we have never been able to sound the same or better than we did with a conventional system. yeah, it was easier to set-up tear down. But it should be more about the music and the sound.

For the first time since we got the 3 PAS I set up a 3 tier tonight. The student body loved it! there were only about 250 students there. shouldn't three PAS be enough for this?

I love the PAS concept, especially the portability and ease of use, "musician mix". I don’t think that we should have to sacrifice sound quality (especially from Bose) to obtain all this.

I guess I am asking for help, or a demo or something. I feel like I know the systems well, I just can’t reproduce the sound that I want. And more importantly the sound that the students want.

standard set-up:

PAS1:
-Piano+Vocal SM57
-Vocal SM57

PAS2:
-Taylor w/ES
-Vocal SM57
-Aux Perc through mini mixer SM58s

PAS 3:
-Les Paul through GNX pedel
-Elec Bass direct (very nice by the way)
-Kick Drum
-Line from a mixer in audience for:
-preacher mic, countryman
-recorded music


We just cant get the Vocals Loud enough to match the Drums! most comments from students say that the drums are too overpowering, and he is not even playing that loud!

Ok thats enough for now, sorry about the long post. I feel like we have given this thing a try, its just not working the way that it has been advertised to work.

Ok, one more thing. Bose guys, You rock! customer service has been top notch.

Hi Adam

quote:

The biggest frustration that has come about has been the issue of feedback. Since we got the systems our volume has gone done A LOT. I know that the sound is supposed to be "cleaner". But we can’t pump the mics up without getting feedback. I have tried hard with these things, tried hard to convince people that they are "better" its just not working or the same.

quote:

We just cant get the Vocals Loud enough to match the Drums! most comments from students say that the drums are too overpowering, and he is not even playing that loud!

There's a whole shopping list of things to check here.

• Are you running the latest (version 2.0) Presets?
  
  There are a couple of new presets for 'high gain'
  
  
• Double check the gain staging
  
  
• Microphone positioning and technique.
  Watch for angle and direction that the microphones are 'pointed' (should be above and to the left or right of the L1).
  
  How close to the microphones are the vocalists.
  
  
• Acoustics and Physical positioning
  Could you post a picture of the group or the way you setup in the room?
  
  Just curious about how everyone is positioned in relation to the Bose Systems and to each other.
  

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,

Hey Adam,

We can get you there. The system can get VERY loud with the configuration you've outlined above. We can help make this work.

Will you please answer ST's questions plus one more, where are you located?

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Adam:
We just cant get the Vocals Loud enough to match the Drums! most comments from students say that the drums are too overpowering, and he is not even playing that loud!

When I see the words "choir" and "drums" on the same page I imagine the drums are probably showing up on all the mic inputs. Have you ever tried plexiglass panels between the kit and the singers? I would think that might be more fun for the drummer, too, not having to hold back so much.

quote:

Are you running the latest (version 2.0) Presets?

Not yet. I will put that on the list.

quote:

Double check the gain staging

I know how this works, its all good.

quote:

Microphone positioning and technique.
Watch for angle and direction that the microphones are 'pointed' (should be above and to the left or right of the L1). How close to the microphones are the vocalists

Check- I am very strict with everyone about this. They tease me all the time about telling them to eat their mics, and not get too close to the systems. They are all about 10 feet away, and 2-3 feet to the side.

quote:

Acoustics and Physical positioning
Could you post a picture of the group or the way you setup in the room?

I'll get one, can't do it soon though.

quote:

Will you please answer ST's questions plus one more, where are you located?

School is in Sterling Kansas. I will be leaving for the summer in a week. Home is in Longmont, Colorado. Unfortunately I will not have the full band together again until next August.

quote:

When I see the words "choir" and "drums" on the same page I imagine the drums are probably showing up on all the mic inputs. Have you ever tried plexiglass panels between the kit and the singers?

The Choir was something totally different, I used two of the systems as mains, and the third as a piano monitor for the choir. There were no drums involved. (This concert was also in a library, but thats a different story).

Like I have said before, I feel very confident with the systems, most everything on campus that I have done this past year has been great. Its just when we add singers to the mix we run into problems. You guys would be impressed with everything that these systems have done this year, I wish I had pictures of it all.

That should be enough for now.

Adam

The first thing I'd try, since this is a "not all cases" kind of problem is the version 2.0 preset called "vocal mic high gain, normal" (#03 and 04).

If I had to guess you're probably taking off in the 10kHz range (a common place for those mics to take off) and these presets will help to reduce output in that range.

Call 877-335-2673 and the tech guys will have the software out to you immediately or go to the "support" section at www.bose.com/musicians and download the files and burn them on a CD.

Let us know how it goes,
Steve