Hello everyone! This is my first post here. I am really interested in the L1 system. It seems like a wonderful piece of equipment.

My application is a four piece band: Two guitars, bass, drums. Three vocals. We might be adding keyboards too.

So, from what I can see, to use the Bose L1, I am looking at at least three or possibly four towers, meaning either $6k or $8k for the group. And if we want to mic the drums, that will add more.

Compare that to a conventional PA system. As an example, Musicians Friend has a 1000 watt Yamaha package system on sale at $2k. That includes a 20 channel board, two speakers, two monitors, speaker stands, and even includes four mics and cables. For most venues we would be playing, that is enough, and with 20 channels to work with, things like mic'ing the drums or adding a keyboard are no big deal.

So, I'm just wondering how to justify the L1. I REALLY like some of the concepts. In particular, I hate the way conventional PA setups prevent the band from hearing each other the way the audience hears us. We fight that every week.

But the difference between $2k and $6k is huge. I guess what I am saying is that I could justify the L1 if it was 25% or even 50% more money, but 300% or 400% seems out of bounds. Am I missing something?

As an owner all I can say it try one and you will know why. All I can say is that is what they go for, that is the entrance fee.

If you base it on listed featured the price won't make much sense. If you base it on the end result....phenominal sound/ease of set up so much (so that a complete moron could figure it out.) then again, you will know why.

Once you've played/sang through one of these and compare that experience to setting up your own pa and how it sounds, you will most likely never want to go back.

quote:

Compare that to a conventional PA system. As an example, Musicians Friend has a 1000 watt Yamaha package system on sale at $2k. That includes a 20 channel board, two speakers, two monitors, speaker stands, and even includes four mics and cables. For most venues we would be playing, that is enough, and with 20 channels to work with, things like mic'ing the drums or adding a keyboard are no big deal.

Hi Omaha,
It's kinda like comparing apples and oranges. Each L1 system is 750 watts, and if you purchased the recommended 4 systems, that is 3000 watts. So just based on those numbers, you could almost justify the expense, since you are getting three times the power.

As far as all the stuff that comes with the basic Yamaha package, do you really want to haul all that stuff around? The L1 replaces all of it, no monitors, heavy speakers, or mixing boards needed. And trust me, your search for a decent sound will not end with the Yamaha package. You will be constantly purchasing accessories to try to fix your collective sound.

I play in a 4 piece rock band, and we last used a conventional system far superior to the one you are looking at. When we finally made the switch, we were all blown away by the sound. We were blowing club owners away because of our clean, crisp sound.

The L1 system sets you free of all the problems associated with conventional gear. No more "volume wars", no more 2 hour soundchecks to try to salvage a decent sound. No more compromising the mix because musicians are sharing the same 2 main speakers. Everyone brings their absolute best tone into a collective mix that covers the room like nothing else available. No more crappy room reflections, just clean music and natural room reverb.

It is a huge investment, but when you look at what you get, and what it replaces, it is well worth it.

Best Wishes,
Jeff
www.theunmentionables.com

Hi Omaha, and welcome aboard. I witnessed the unveiling of this system at the Bose performance stage three years ago next week, and I was immediately sold on it. As wildly enthusiastic as I was, it still took me several months to actually convert my band over. It was a shockingly new concept back then, and trying to convince my bandmates to disregard everything we'd come to know about live sound for the past 30 years was tough. It was even tougher to convince them to get rid of all of our perfectly good equipment and spend money to start all over again buying all new stuff. It's not an unusual story, and believe me, there's not an L1 user on this forum that doesn't understand what's going through your mind.

But the biggest difference is this. I don't think you'll find many testimonies to that Yamaha PA - or any other conventional PA - that say it has been a life altering experience, and that it has made you a better musician and has completely renewed your desire to play live. There are hundreds and hundreds of testimonies here to that effect. These are all people that played through those conventional systems for many many years, and can genuinely attest to the dramatic improvement with this system.

In the case of my band... like most major life purchases, the sting of the expense was forgotten about within a few months. However, the excitement of playing live music through our Bose systems, is still as fresh over 2 years later as it was when they were brand new. In fact it just seems to keep increasing with every gig.

THAT is something that you can't put a price tag on.

Welcome Omaha,

I wholely agree with everything each of these guys has told you.
Especially this:

quote:

the excitement of playing live music through our Bose systems, is still as fresh over 2 years later...In fact it just seems to keep increasing with every gig. THAT is something that you can't put a price tag on.

That really sez it all.

You will very soon forget about the expense and love the experience.
This is not a PA system as much as an extension of your musicality.

We use one system per player, if you are near me...I'll bring them over.

(Here is a video of a 4pc rock band last summer thru only 3 systems, more vids on my website)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DrumrPete,

This may sound a tad redundant, but I agree as well. I can't imagine going back to a conventional PA, and when I do play solo gigs at local festivals (or the State Fair as I did yesterday), I actually sorta cringe when I'm confronted with a typical setup. I just don't enjoy playing as much through the old school as much as I do the L1.

Hi Omaha,

This is a great question - and since you put it in terms of cost/benefit and comparison to another tangible example, let me try to meet you there.

Starting with an Empty Stage
If you are talking about equipping a band starting with an empty stage, then there may not be a great deal of difference in the actual cost, but a significant difference in the benefit. The L1™ System can replace or significantly reduce the investments in backline amplifiers (e.g. two Guitar amps, a Bass amp, Keyboard amp). You shouldn't need monitors either. (and amps and cables and time to set up/ tear down and transport the monitors either).

But we already have ...
If you already have the backline amps, then the cost benefit remains the same, but you may not be as 'liquid' with respect to your choices. You incremental costs look different, but it doesn't change the value proposition.

Adding new members to the band
You mentioned the possibility of adding a Keyboard player. This is *really* interesting. In the more conventional way of thinking - you might say - great - just plug the keyboard into the 'board' and we're ready to go. I can't remember at time that it was really that simple. By the time you get everything re-jigged for the extra instrument you have ... added the Keyboard to the monitor mix, made it harder to hear the vocals, taken the Keyboard out of the monitor mix, added a separate amp on stage for the Keyboard, made the stage mix more complex with sound coming from the Keyboard amp and reflecting back from the 'mains' bouncing around the room, and the beat goes on.

This sounds like an argument against adding the Keyboard. But really it's an argument against adding yet another instrument through a single shared (conventional) system. With a conventional approach, funneling everything through one system means that a compromise for one, is a compromise for all.

In a better (L1™ ) world, the Keyboard player has his/her instrument and his/her own L1™ . Make room on the stage and a power outlet and you are ready to concentrate on making music.

Cost / Benefit
When I look at the Cost side of the question, I get thinking about the 'cost per gig'. This leads to: If I play more gigs, the cost per gig goes down. All things being equal (I know ... they never are), but I'm pretty certain that I am getting more gigs than I would have without the Bose System. Here are some of the reasons.

• I enjoy playing live more, so I pursue more of those opportunities.
  
• It takes considerably less time and effort to prepare / recover from a gig now, so I have more time to actually play. This means that on a 'per gig' basis, the dollars per hour is much higher. There are fewer gigs that I turn down because "It just doesn't make sense".
  
• Short set up and teardown times means that we as a band are welcome in more places. This leads to more gigs.
  

Cost / Benefit
The other guys (above) have covered the Benefits really well, and I agree with 'em. It is a qualitatively different experience to play in an L1™ equipped band. And the audiences keep telling me that it is a different and better experience for them too.

Overall, I know that my band is sounding better, playing better, at lower volumes, for more appreciative audiences.

Oh - and if it were really about the money - I can't help but wonder if as many of us would be doing this.

Let me reinforce an aspect which ST touched on:

It is far easier to "incrementally" grow a band based on the L1 Systems.

A number of bands have reported growing from one L1+2B1 System (which was far better than their conventional PA system!!) to where they eventually ended up with nearly one L1 per person ... and some have happily stopped with two L1 Systems, or with 2 people per L1, or ... whatever makes sense for your group.

L1 =$2000. Yamaha = Free! The L1 is a much better deal. LOL. Try it, you will probably agree.

quote:

Originally posted by Omaha:

Am I missing something?

Hi Omaha

Order your first one for a free trial period, and experiance what you're missing!!!

Oldghm

Omaha, the bottom line is, how much money do you have to spend? If you have $2,000 to spend, buying a single Bose L1/B1 system won't do you much good unless you are only going to run vocals through it.
Do you really need to run the drums, guitars, keyboard , etc through the P.A. system?
How big are the venues you are playing?
The Yamaha system doesn't look that great. You are splitting 1000 watts between FOH and monitors so each FOH speaker will only be getting 250 watts.
I don't believe $2000 will be enough to purchase a system that will properly amplify an entire rock band.

Robert L

Thanks to everyone for their comments. They are all very helpful. One thing that really recommends this system is the dedication and thoughtfulness of its fans. Truly amazing.

It is amazing. I'm impressed with you guys too. You have thoughtfully explained most of the benefits of the system in one concise thread.

Omaha, trying it will answer most of your questions.

I look at it this way:

The L1 system is an interesting alternative choice for someone already looking at really, really good small venue gear.

The Yamaha system mentioned is simply not up to snuff. It's good starter gear, but not in the same league as proper band equipment.

Quality-wise, a more realistic comparison to the L1 rig, would be something like this:
- A pair of Mackie 1530's matched with SWA1501 subs (about $4,000)
- A quartet of Mackie SRM450's as monitors, or good quality passive monitors and a power amp ($2,400 and up)
- A mixer with enough busses to provide at least two, and preferably four pre-fader monitor mixes (at least $1,000)
- Rack-mount EQ, compression, feedback control, etc. to tweak the system in a vain attempt to hear each other properly ($500 and up).
- All the normal backline gear that you already carry.

All of a sudden, the value of the L1 system starts to snap into focus.

The list I just described, contains some fairly tasty gear, and costs about the same as a full-band Bose rig.

Yet it's barely adequate for a hard-rocking band, and it still has all the normal problems you get with conventional gear:
- monitors fighting FOH
- lengthy, exhausting set-up and tear-down
- sound quality is totally dependent on your "engineer"
- Muddy, hard-to-hear mixes on stage and off
- Consistent, even FOH coverage is only available in a regularly-shaped room, with the stage on the short wall.

In comparison, the Bose rig makes all that gear sound like so much cheese.

And once the band really gets into the Bose concept, and backline gear starts to disappear from the stage (my expensive guitar amp is now up for sale, having been replaced by a cheap POD XT Live pedalboard), the value equation starts to tilt even further in favour of the Bose.

Other issues:

Because the Bose system is so portable, a Bose-equipped band can play through their best-case sound system at every gig. Best sound = best performance.

No more stress, worrying about what sort of gear the venue will be providing, or who will be at the mixing board.

No more paying for roadies, or carrying the costs of a cube van to transport your gear.

I am in the process of selling off a bunch of my PA gear, my guitar rig and some of my bass equipment. by the time I'm done, I expect to come out about $300-500 ahead, not counting the fact that the Bose makes my ears so happy...