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Hi,
I have used my system since June of 2004 and I love it! I find that it works best in small to medium sized rooms....I was wondering...Can anyone tell me of their experiences using the system with one or two subs outside? Does the sound carry well? Do you feel the PAS is better suited for indoor use. I do a solo show and run two keyboards and a guitar through a Mackie DFX 12 board into the base of the PAS. I do quite a bit of outdoor beach, summer, yard, deck and garden parties with crowds ranging from 50 to 300...will that work well outdoors or should I continue using my "big" system (1000 watt speakers, 2000 watt Mackie head, powered subs)? Thanks so much! Gregg |
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I have used my system with both one & two subs outdoors for the whole summer & also with bands. It works great & carries better than my old JBL system.
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I've used it outdoors and in. Sounds great either way, but I do like outdoors better.
Life IS Good... just getting a bit expensive! |
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quote: Hey Gregg - I've used it outdoors several times and it is simply great. Go with the PAS. |
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I have used the system outdoors on at least one occasion and I found the sound to carry very well (even the low end).
It was for a cocktail hour at a wedding reception and the system was the perfect match for that setting. The sound wasn't overbearing but could be heard clearly, plus, the system was visually , much better then a full PA. |
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In an outdoor situation: Does the PAS carries better (including low end) with:
1) Walls at the back only, 2) Walls at the back and sides (angled shaped more opened to the audience, or even streight?), 3) NO Walls at all....? I ask this because at my 5-piece rock band we're thinking of making a "lightweight" and low stage for outdoor performances. About this, due to the PAS sound dispersion, what would be the maximum recommended stage HEIGHT for the PAS' to carry the sound to people sitting in front of the stage (If they're used as normally, at the back of the stage)...? George S |
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To me the system really comes into it's own outside! Big AL....
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George,
The PAS is actually failry forgiving in regards to stage height from my experience, depending on the distance to the audience. The following thread (Outdoor Party with single PAS with 2-B1) is from a gig that I DJ'd. One can see that the outdoor area was fairly large, as it extended equal distance to the left of the tent as is visible from the pic, and the sound carried wonderfully. The slope of the yard actually placed the PAS about 8 feet above the heads of people around the tent. The sound carried just fine. Cheers, Steve Z |
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Thanks Steve for sharing your height experience with me. Its really hopeful!. But I'm a bit doubtful because your audience was way back maybe giving it more space for the sound to develop.(...???)
I have another theoretic question: What would be minimum distance from the front part of the "stage" to the audience first line (people sitting down), if the stage is only 2 foot high and if the PAS are 10 foot back into of the stage...? I also hope someone can answer what would be better on the walls issue mentioned on my last post. Anyone...? George S |
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George S,
Depending on the arrangement of the crowd, they can be right up against the stage if you like. Just put a little forward tilt on the PAS units, I like to use my PS1 bag folded up underneath the back of my PS1. It works great, as long as the people in the rear of the crowd are not above the redirected angle of sound. In the attached photo, the stage was not elevated, but we were sort of on top of a hill (it was an annual parking lot gig). So we used the the PS1 bags for tilt to help us cover the back of the parking lot. The sound was great and carried much further than previous years with our Mackie gear. But we did use the Mackie 1501 powered sub for the kick drum. Best of Luck, Jeff www.theunmentionables.com  |
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Hey Gregg, you'd better sell that 20th century steam-powered rig while it's still worth something. I'm about to enter my 40th year as a pro musician, and the compliments I have received emphasizing "sound" in the 15 months I've used the PAS, in solo or band contexts, flamenco to jazz to 10-piece corporate function band, inside or out, far outnumber the previous 38 years' worth. I'm not kidding when I tell you that it averages more than 1 "you (guys) have a great sound!" per gig. I've worked with the best, with unlimited budgets, and have many times been very happy with the sound, but it cost $10,000 just for that show! A system you can throw in the trunk a a 3-series BMW and cover a room with 300 people as an instrumental guitar soloist without being too loud even 6 feet away allows you to drive a 3-series BMW instead of a van (nothing against vans, but I haven't driven one that was really fun, although I have had fun driving one with the guys, but that's another subject). I've set up the sound for an 8-piece band for 2000 people using 4 PAS by myself in a half hour, and I'm just a guitar player. It's awesome, dude, you just need to work it a bit. Spend some time, try the presets, try with and without mixers or effects, etc. I am getting such a wonderful sound from my midified guitars with a Roland GR-33, on both nylon and steel string guitars, that I'm getting calls that used to go to keyboardists and calypso bands. I can do any damn thing (and do). And I'm driving away 20 minutes after the gig. In a normal car.
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Depending upon the style of music you play and how loud you play it, subwoofers are essential.
IMHO, playing rock at 120db takes 4 18" drivers and 2400 watts of clean power with some decent (read 2x12" & 2" compression driver) high cabs. Just my 2 cents.... |
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Sarkis is right on. If you want to play at an average of 120 dB SPL, it takes a lot more power and cone area. (and amps and compressors and cables and monitors and on and on)
AND you'll want to bring a bag of ear plugs for the band and the audience because at that volume the music will sound better with plugs in. The human ear cannot process SPL's that high very effectively and the eardrum will distort; also your ears will start to "clamp down" to protect themselves. The ear plugs will actually improve sound quality at that volume. I'm passionate about this issue. I really have to say don't play at 120 dB SPL. It's bad for you and it's bad for your audience ... it's bad. Remember, that is about as loud as a jet engine at takeoff. Sarkis, no disrespect intended. I just know that playing that loud is very bad for the human ear and I get all fired up when I hear someone talking about that high an SPL as an appropriate way to play live. I know you're not saying that, I'm just reading into it and throwing out a cautionary commentary. When you're outdoors playing to 5,000, or playing in a "stadium", I guess there's no avoiding having that much firepower the ability to push 120 dB SPL, but your audience can ususally escape the sound and find a comfortable volume ... far, far away from the speakers. But in a small club this kind of volume is too much the norm IMO. Bands need to open up to the idea that they might get more gigs and more fans if they didn't blow people's eardrums into distort mode. Sorry to rant and rave gang. I'll get off the soapbox now, Steve [edited my rant for clarity and less hostility] This message has been edited. Last edited by: Steve-at-Bose, |
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by holliwil:
George S, Depending on the arrangement of the crowd, they can be right up against the stage if you like. Just put a little forward tilt on the PAS units, I like to use my PS1 bag folded up underneath the back of my PS1. It works great, as long as the people in the rear of the crowd are not above the redirected angle of sound. THANKS JEFF! IT SEEMS TO BE A VERY GOOD IDEA TO TILT THE TOWERS DOWN (OR UP!)A BIT ACCORDING TO THE PLACE. THANKS FOR THAT. The sound was great and carried much further than previous years with our Mackie gear. But we did use the Mackie 1501 powered sub for the kick drum. ONE QUESTION: WHY DO YOU USE THE MACKIE 1501 POWERED SUB FOR THE KICK DRUM. AREN'T THE BOSE DOUBLE B1'S SUFFICIENT FOR YOU KICK DRUM, OR FOR ANY OTHER REASON...? George S |
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120dB SPL? Wow, that's a lot of pressure and as brother Steve "rants" it's not a very good idea. Do you know how many older rockers I could introduce who have learned the hard way? The insidious thing is that you'll never know until it's too late. Listen to those who have been there, done that - keep it down a little and go for a full sound with plenty of presence. You don't need 120dB to achieve that. One more rant off, good luck... |
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George S,
It's kinda like a 10-gauge shotgun compared to a cannon. The B1s carry plenty of bass for most crowds, and we've gone both ways. But we are primarily a dance band, and in certain settings it's nice for the crowd to feel that low end "thump" pulsing through their bodies. But if you are going for a cleaner sound, you can't beat the B1s. Hope that helps! Jeff |
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No offense taken.
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I am doing a formal event in 1 hour outside so zero pressure all.
using system II and 2 B1's. Never used it outside any RULES or tweaks for getting THAT sound. Will be using acoustic with under saddle & Sound hole pic up plus 1 vocal mic. Been getting the expected WOW sound at all other gigs but this is my VIRGIN out door gig with the System II.  I lost an ear too. |
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Hi Mono Man (A Working Player),
Probably too little, too late but... Since you've got two B1s definitely take them. Other than that, there isn't much to add beyond what you probably have read above. Same settings as always - perhaps more bottom end if you feel that you sound a little thin outdoors. But I haven't found it necessary to do any specific 'tweaks because I'm outdoors' type things. Here is an article that gives you some insights, but by the time you see this, you will probably have already had a great show. Bass Outdoors |
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Hey ST
Yep your right NO PROBLEMS  A huge umbrella did blow over and knocked the stack over but ZERO DAMAGE Lots of "WOW's & what the hell is thats" though directed at the system. Another great gig and yes I used all the same setting. The 2 things I did was give a little more bass and take some ( a little) trim off the vocals. I AM SOOOOOOOOOO HAPPY with this system. First out door gig A+. |
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