What are you guys doing with the instruments that are too good to take out to a gig?


We have a few prevailing thoughts about what happens when we plug an instrument into an L1™.

Great instruments sound better
To me, this means that I get to hear more of the differences between my instruments and get to really hear what makes them unique and special.


Modest instruments sound better
I cringe a little when someone says that even a cheap Guitar sounds as good as a — insert your favourite high end instrument here —.

I might agree that even modest instruments can sound really good through an L1™, but I think that a really good instrument will sound better. But of course, that is all subjective.

ToneMatch™'d instruments sound as the builder intended
Every time I ponder this I want to jump up and down and go and get some instruments for which there is a ToneMatch™ preset. I just want to hear the instrument the way the builder intended. If you don't know what I'm talking about - check out the ToneMatch™ Partner Interviews.

Too good to play out?
Do you have instruments lying around, tucked away safe that are just too good to take to a gig?

I've been rethinking some of that questionable investment-in-museum-piece-instrument thinking from the early-mid 90s. One rule was that I could not buy instruments that I would not take to a gig. But as it turns out, I got really particular about what gigs were good enough for specific instruments. Pretty convoluted thinking.

Looking out over the eBay, craigslist landscape, looking down at my aging hands that have only so much time left in them, listening to how great some of these things sound through the L1™ , I am thinking it's time to stop thinking about resale value and start thinking about sharing the tone.

How about you?

Hey ST,
My guitar of choice for gigs is a Takamine due to how good it sounds when amplified. However, I can't stand how it sounds unplugged.

Conversely, my Guild D-50 is like an extension of my soul and sounds unbelievable when played in the living room. I can't write with anything else in hand.

Around 15 years ago, I installed a thinline pickup in it for gigs and it just never did anything for me. Since then it's developed a crack along the grain on the top so now I'm spooked about letting her out, so she stays home.

Would you believe I've never even tried it thru the Bose? It just sounds so good with just the couch and walls.....now if I could only get up the nerve to play her on the back of the boat....

Hey ST!
The "too good to play out" question is tough one. I traded all of my guitars (acoustic) to get two really good ones. My theory being that if I am playing out, I want to sound as good as possible. And I used those two guitars exclusively for about 6 months but as summer approached that year, I got nervous about taking either of these guitars to certain gigs.

I loved the tone. I wanted to share that tone with others and enjoy it myself through the L1. I tried to tell myself that I bought these guitars to play them live, that's what they're for but the worry factor was still there.

I needed one with great tone and little to no worry factor. I bought a ToneMatch'd guitar and to me, that has been the best of both worlds. Great tone, no worry!

That's the way I judge witch guitar to bring. If I think my worrying about the instrument will be greater than my enjoyment of the tone it stays home.

Take good care,
Matt

quote:

Originally posted by ST:
Modest instruments sound better
I cringe a little when someone says that even a cheap Guitar sounds as good as a — insert your favourite high end instrument here —.

I might agree that even modest instruments can sound really good through an L1™, but I think that a really good instrument will sound better. But of course, that is all subjective.

I know a fellow nearby who plays in a internationally known Bluegrass Band. He owns, buys, sells, and trades in Vintage Martin Guitars from the 30's and 40's with values that go upwards of $50,000.

On occasion the band will get a gig on short notice that requires quick and dirty air travel. You know what I mean commuter connecting flights on puddle jumper planes. He is known to use a $100 instrument at times like this, infuriating the aging band leader, because Bluegrass in its purest form is all about the Vintage instruments.

Without doubt the Johnson will not sound like a 1937 D28, but properly set up and with a little tone job done on the braces, it works.

Over the years I have purchased Guitars that I never intended to play, for one reason or another, but not all collectable, or expensive guitars sound good, so tone is not the issue.

My first Martin was in 1973. A new D41 that cost about $1000 then. It has ridden in pickup truck beds and on farm wagons, spent the night on a hundred creek banks, been fondled by many admiring drunks, and I don't regret one scar that it carries, because I enjoyed all the good times I shared with it. When I take it out now I think, this guitar must surely say something about me, but I'm not sure it's something to brag about.

For me, there is no such thing as too good to play out. Too expensive maybe, but the guitars that I own that are more expensive than the one I most often play, don't sound nearly as good to me. If they did I would play them. Of course there is the caveat, If you don't play an acoustic guitar, it won't sound good.

I am fortunate to own a couple of collectable instruments and one of the great pleasures of owning them is the occasional opportunity to place one of them in the hands of a kid, who like I did, think they will never have anything so nice.

When my older brother went to Viet Nam back in '64 he left a '57 Studebaker in the yard. On a hot summer day the back window blew out and one thing led to another and Dad decided to sell the car because it was not being used. Word spread up the country road and one afternoon Harold Dennis showed up wanting to trade. I remember Dad standing on a chair to plug in the amp to a light socket on the back porch ceiling, as Harold began to play that old Kay electric and sing that old Hank tune about them Long Gone Lonesome Blues.

If Dad had known that 44 years later I would be telling the world this story he might have traded. Man, I still want that old guitar.

I say go out and play your guitars. Make some memories.

O..

OK, you have my attention. What band??

Wayne


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"I know a fellow nearby who plays in a internationally known Bluegrass Band."

Hi:

quote:

"Too good to play out?

What are you guys doing with the instruments that are too good to take out to a gig?

We have a few prevailing thoughts about what happens when we plug an instrument into an L1™.

Great instruments sound better
To me, this means that I get to hear more of the differences between my instruments and get to really hear what makes them unique and special.

Do you have instruments lying around, tucked away safe that are just too good to take to a gig?"

This is a great topic for several reasons.

My personal take on this is that I would not mind taking any instrument to a gig...as long as I can be sure it will be coming home unharmed. James Taylor plays his $10,000-plus Olsen guitar at most every gig he plays. If he can do it, why can't we (assuming we own such high-end instruments. I don't at the moment). My biggest concern as a hobbyist gigging musician, playing in the types of venues I play is that I am not always treated with the same respect as the James Taylors of the world (think some bar venues) so I can not be sure my very expensive one-of-a-kind instrument would be well-treated (if I owned one).

This past Thursday, at my weekly coffeehouse gig, one unruly little child decided he wanted to play my Martin OM28 guitar - while I was still holding it! He walked right up to me as I was sitting holding my guitar, and promptly proceeded to try and yank it from my grasp, all while pulling on the strings in an attempt to play something! His father kept telling him to stop. The kid ignorned his father's instructions and kept trying to take it from me, etc. Imagine if that would have been a drunk in a bar with my $20,000 dream guitar!

In any case I would not bother to take a $20,000 guitar (for example) out to a performance if it didn't sound appreciably better (amplified) than the one I use currently (my Martin OM28). Conversely, if I ever found a guitar that sounded better, amplified, than my Martin OM28 - even if it might cost less than the OM28 did - I would use the less expensive guitar.

quote:

"ToneMatch™'d instruments sound as the builder intended
Every time I ponder this I want to jump up and down and go and get some instruments for which there is a ToneMatch™ preset. I just want to hear the instrument the way the builder intended. If you don't know what I'm talking about - check out the ToneMatch™ Partner Interviews."

This works well for electric guitars maybe (and other instruments, like keyboards, that were only designed to be played through amplification) but I'm not convinced that my Martin OM28 acoustic guitar will ever sound as good through my L1 as it does unamplified, unless I'm using a good quality microphone for amplification. I have a very good pickup in my OM28 and while the sound of my OM28 through the L1 is quite good it is nowhere near as good as it could be if amplified using a good quality microphone. It was my understanding that the Tone Match partners were interested in setting up Tone Match presets to make sure their instruments (guitars) sounded good amplified using the factory-installed pickups - not necessarily sounding as good as they could if played through a good quality microphone, etc. I've yet to hear an acoustic guitar with a pickup system sound as good as a well-mic'd acoustic guitar, through anyone's sound system.

Of course if I elect to use a microphone to amplify my guitar then I have to deal with the issue of feedback and trying to keep my guitar in exactly the same location with respect to the position of the microphone, etc. And this amplified sound quality issue doesn't seem to correlate with the cost of the microphone. So automatically going out and buying a Neuman U87 (for example) might not guarantee me a superior amplified sound on stage, etc.

So I don't equate very expensive (acoustic) guitars (that have superior tonal qualities) with the ability to automatically sound better amplified. In fact most of the very high-end acoustic guitars, that are offered for sale, don't come with pickups installed. That's an extra step if you want to amplify them, and you don't want to use a microphone. The luthier assumes you'll amplify their guitars using a good-quality microphone, etc.

And in the hope that I can have my L1 reproduce the great sound of my OM28's natural, unamplified, tone, I am looking at this microhone installation: AMT Microphone for acoustic guitar. If this one works then I'd be happy taking along any $20,000 guitar I owned, to a gig every chance I got - as long as there are no unruly kids in coffeeshops, or drunks in bars, trying to take my guitar from me, etc.

quote:

"Modest instruments sound better
I cringe a little when someone says that even a cheap Guitar sounds as good as a — insert your favourite high end instrument here —.

I might agree that even modest instruments can sound really good through an L1™, but I think that a really good instrument will sound better. But of course, that is all subjective."

I spend a small amount of time on an acoustic (mostly blues) guitar forum and I have been amazed to hear constantly that..."it's not the guitar, it's the player". The implication being that you don't need to own a great (expensive) guitar. A great player can make even a lousy-sounding guitar sound good! My retort to that has always been (to those espousing the qualities of the $100 guitar) "then why do you play a $10,000 guitar? Why not save a boat-load of money and play a $100 guitar if you can make a $100 guitar sound good?" I've yet to receive an answer on that one! I submit that the expensive guitars do have a better sound most of the time; at least the ones I've heard. It's possible there might be a $100 guitar out there that sounds as good as a $20,000 guitar...but it would be the exception rather than the rule.

However, I do believe that a less expensive guitar can sound acceptably good through something like an L1 because the guitar's inherent sound qualities are not in play as much as the pickup that's being used to amplify the guitars. Of course that all goes out the window if we are talking about amplifying the same guitars using good quality microphones because the microphones will pick up the inherent sound of the guitars. So, in theory anyway, the more expensive, better sounding naturally, guitar, should sound better than the $100 guitar, through an L1 if mic'd correctly.

At the end of the day, and as you indicated, it's all subjective. I know there are people who buy expensive guitars just to hang on the wall and look at them. That's fine. But if I bought an expensive guitar it would be for it's superior tonal qualities (and build quality, tonewoods,etc) and you can be sure I'd be wanting to perform with it every chance I got. And if the unruly kids and drunks stay away from me and my guitars...I would.

Stu

This message has been edited. Last edited by: StuartD,

My beloved 1969 D-28 Brazilian just doesn't sound very good amplified, even through the Bose. So, I rely on my new Taylor and my now backup Gretsch for plugging in. I'm also sheepish-sad to say that I prefer the tone of the Taylor to that fine old 28 - seems smoother and more balanced. I'll keep the 28 always though.

I do play my 1975 Guild blonde 12 string, sounds very nice amplified, but probably best pure acoustic. It's a canon that rings like a bell. LOVE my guitars...

My road gigs are such that I still keep full watch and control of the guitars, so I would not hesitate to take any of my guitars to a gig. But to fly... I would be much more selective.

Nice thread and responses.

Mike

My old friend Guild mostly hangs on the wall these days. It is a late 60's F50 Navarre with proud battle scars from about 4 years of 8 to 12 gigs a week. It has the biggest sound of any guitar I have ever owned, but plugged in or miced it is too feedback prone. I switched from this guitar to a Martin, then to a couple of Ovations, a Washburn shallow body, a Yamaha, and now a Variax 700AC.
I wouldn't mind taking the Guild to a gig, but I don't think it would add anything to my show as it is today. It is a very big guitar, and harder to play, but I still love her sound in my home.

Respect

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Col. Andy,

I guess I am such a novice that I have never been a "brand snob", and I have always had a personal conviction that; if I am not going to use it, sell it.

So....only owning a few guitars, I look for value in an instrument that still does it for me in the amplified sound and fret board department. Unplugged sound needs to be good but not great.

My WMD (Weapons of Mass Destraction) are an Adamas 2080, Ovation 1537, Carvin DC400 with a piezo, and Cavin LB75P Bass.

The Adamas will survive a nuclear strike and still be playing, yet plugged in has a unique and very adaptable sound. The 1537 was an accidental purchase some 15 years ago that I can't part with. Maybe not quite as good as a high end Martin, but on par with most Taylors I have played having more bottom end. Carvins...well, just well made guitars (US made) and great actions.

So....I will likely never own a guitar that fits into this category. I am NOT that good to justify it.

We have expensive acoustic guitars - not because they are expensive, but because we love the sound and the look and the feel of them. Music is our hobby, and so we spend our hard-earned income on our hobby... some people like cars, some people like foreign holidays, some people collect antiques, and some people like music.

We started with an Eko Ranger 6-string and 12-string way back in the early 1970s. Jimmy progressed to Brazilian Rosewood Yamahas in the late 70s and stuck with them for about 25 years. In 2003 Val bought a Taylor Big Baby, and that was the start of our association with Taylors. We've been through a number of upgrades and now have:

Jimmy:
Taylor 910CE-L7 6-string and Taylor 855 12-string
Val:
Taylor 910CE 6 string and Taylor 855 12-string

The 6-strings are new, the 12-strings are second hand.

At every stage along the way we've always taken out our best guitars to perform with. We love the sound they make, and that's how we want to sound when performing. At times it can be a bit worrying about knocks and falls etc, but it goes with the territory. If we want to perform with them we have to accept the risks.

If holidaying in the UK or Europe we always drive - that way we can take the guitars with us. But flying would be different - don't know if we could trust those guitars to airlines.

I use an electric and an acoustic which were both well into 4 figures £ and I take both out.
All is well until damage happens, as recently, when my daughter, who doubles as my roadie, knocked the acoustic over and it landed front first on the metal corner of a carrying case.

As you can imagine, it put a damper on the gig and £100 later to top luthier Andy Manson (see www.andymanson.co.uk)saw it repaired to as good a standard as was possible.
I was always of the view that my pride and joy was a working tool, but it really will make you mad when it does get damaged.
Andy

[Steve-at-Bose changed a four letter word to something less objectionable]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Steve-at-Bose,

Hi Steve at Bose,

apologies, it wasnt a 'real' four letter word, just a quaint English saying !!
Andy

I've always appreciated good guitars, but was willing to play out with medium grade stuff, as long as it played well and sounded halfway decent.

About a year ago I purchased a Taylor GS, not because I was into excellent guitars, but because I had several "gigs" where I just couldn't use amplification - and I needed something that was loud all on its own. Therefore, I needed an all-solid, quality guitar.

The downside is, I've grown accustomed to the excellent sound quality, and now it's hard to settle for the amplified sound I used to be ok with - especially (perhaps because of?) now that I have the L1. It does the guitar more justice than my previous setups, I have a feeling.

I've decided to stick with using the Taylor out, unless the weather is inclement. Being a solo artist, it's sometimes hard to keep my eye on my equipment when I'm not onstage.

Small things help - I love the Wallacher hanger. I don't need to worry about audience members backing into my guitar stand and knocking it over, or dinging it, and the L1 being at the back of the stage helps, too.

I've also found, as was stated other places, that the better I sound (both from the L1 and excellent instruments), the better I please my customers and the more and better gigs I get. That's hard to give up.

If you haven't purchased your dream guitar yet, one thing I think helps (maybe just my imagination), is to use something that's very high quality, but not a lot of glitter. To me, glitter, flash and sparkle just screams "steal me". Just a thought...

What I did, was get my Taylor 615 CE stained a great color of Blue.

There are no others like it in the area. That way if someone steals it from my gig, I'll have it back in a few days. Also, I love the color.

Beautiful guitar...I'm a sucker for flamed maple.

I've been meaning to ask you:

You have a blue guitar, a blue songbook, and you're wearing a blue shirt. Does that mean you play the blues as well?

Hi Gordy,

I agree that when you play a better quality instrument(s), especially through the L1, it's difficult not to take it/them along.
I currently play a Takamine Nashville acoustic and my duo partner, a Taylor 614ce. They sound very similar through the L1, with the Tak having a bit more bottom end. When I got the Tak damaged, I tried my other Tak, an old G series through the L1 and whilst the system made it sound better than it ever did before, it just couldn't compete, and in fairness, it shouldn't be expected to.
In spite of my guitars, (I use a PRS electric) being 'tools' to earn a shekel or two, it is still really annoying, at least to me, when they get damaged.
I think however, that the improvement in the overall sound outwieghs the risk of damage. I just try to be as careful as possible.
I used to have insurane, but it got far too expensive and the excess didnt cover the more minor damage in any case !
Andy.

quote:

You have a blue guitar, a blue songbook, and you're wearing a blue shirt. Does that mean you play the blues as well? Wink

Sometimes!! I do love Blues music, and I have written a couple of Blues songs, but the one that I started first, and still haven't finished is called, "The Maricopa County Pink Jumpsuit Blues".

quote:

Sometimes!! I do love Blues music, and I have written a couple of Blues songs, but the one that I started first, and still haven't finished is called, "The Maricopa County Pink Jumpsuit Blues".

Sounds like something worth singing the blues over!! LOL

I think, with guitars, it makes sense to bring your favorites -- the ones that sound the best to you -- in any situation where you know the stage/backstage/loading areas are secure, and that air or other travel doesn't present a threat. For keyboards, it's a different story. I love my 350 lb. Hammond B3, but it's not leaving my studio as long as I have a nice 31 pound Nord C1 I can carry instead :-)

I have a few very nice guitars but not museum pieces. For me, guitars sould be played. Every gig I bring my Matt Mustapick custom built six and a Breedlove Classic 12. They are great guitar and pleasure to hear and play. Life is to short not to. I don't worry about scratch's or nicks. It's just part of the deal.