Okay, I'm new to Bose (at least for live music reproduction, I have a set of AM-16's for my HT). I play in rock bands...not rock and roll, ROCK. We currently do not have our own PA, we have always rented or hired a soundman to bring it for us, but now it's time to get our own.

We have around $4000 to spend. We already have stage monnitors....if we go the "conventional route", but then I read about the PAS. Problem is, we can't afford a PAS for each member of the band (if I have read correctly, each person needs one?). And also, both of the guitarist use the effects built in to their amps (slight crunch, clean, and all out distortion) and they won't want to have to purchase seperate effects units and a PAS..(If I read correctly, we're supposed to ditch all on stage amps and plug the guitars, and mics directly into any effects we use then into the PAS itself???).
If we don't go with the PAS, what about the 802 Extended? As I said, I'm not really familiar with the Bose live audio selection....Is this a self contained PA system? i.e. What else would we need to complete our PA if we purchased the 802 Extended system....mixer? EQ's? Effects? Compressors?

Thanks for any help.....sorry I have so many questions!

A lot of people ditch their amps, but some people just mic the amp and run that through the PAS. I'm a bass player and I have a separate pre-amp, so I just run a full-range out from my preamp. Voila, 160 lbs of cabinets and power amp that I no longer have to cart around.

It sounds great with one PAS per player, but you can get away with less and still get remarkable improvements. I had a great experience running 5 people through 2 PAS towers. You have to make use of mini-mixers to get that many inputs (5 instruments and 5 vocals) into a less-than-perfect-number of PASs, but it worked, and it worked well.

Post the number of people in your band and who plays what instrument and sings, and the Bose folks will do their best to recommend a setup for you.

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Hourglass http://www.hourglassband.com

Hi Koop

Thanks for writing in. Where are you located? The best thing for you to do is actually get next to the Real Thing in person. It's possible we can point you to someone's gig nearby and you can see and hear for yourself what it is.

There's a lot of info on this website that explains the technology. The basic idea is that this system lets the whole band hear the mix that is going out to the audience. So now there is no question of "how did we sound", who is too loud or soft and what band's sound level is. As you probably know, with a triple system (monitors/mains/backline), no one has any idea what the mix is or what the audience is getting.

Okay....me again. No one has posted to my original response yet, so I wanted to add a thought. I am the vocalist and sometimes play some rythm guitar...electric or acoustic...depending on the song. Could I use a L1/B1 for just my vocals and guitar mix, and then another L1/B1 for the drums and bass guitar? Or, I can use just the L1 for me and both B1's for the bass guitar and drums?
Later down the road, we could add one more L1/B1 set-ups for the lead guitarist and in the mean time he could either
A)Mic his guitar into the same L1/B1 as the drums/bass guitar OR
B)Play un-mic'd just through his amps for now...which he does alot anyway because we don't play too many large gigs.

Thanks!

Thanks, Cliff.....I am very interested in the PAS system as opposed to the 802 system....I have no problem giving this a shot especially with the money back guarantee! How would I NOT!! Please look at my last post concerning my "possible" PAS configuartions...what do you think?

Sorry....another quick thought.
Can we mic a drum kit with a 12 channel mixer, then take the outputs of the mixer into the PAS?

Okay...there is a long delay from when I post to when it actually appears in cyberspace;hence...no one has posted to my original posting yet!

Also, Clarks response helps me out very much!

With our budget at $4000 to start off, what would you suggest....anyone? Cliff??? Ken????

Here is what we have in our band:
Vocalist and rythm guitarist (Me)
Lead Guitarist and harmonies (Steve)
Bass and Harmonies (Kenny)
Drums and can't sing a lick! (Jonny Boy)

If we wanted to use ONLY a PAS system at our next gig, how would you suggest we spend our $4000 and use the PAS to it's best potential until we can add more towers and subs? Thanks!

Hi Koop,

Thanks for writing in. Let's see if I can help you.

Yes, you can get started with two basic + 1 packages (Cylindrical Radiator(tm) speaker and one B1 bass module) for about $4K. I'm a little nervous about you not having enough bass if you are doing loud rock. You should consider basic plus two if you are doing this. Yes, you can run the drum mics through a mixer and then into a Cylindrical Radiator(tm) speaker. Keep in mind that most have gotten the best results with a kick mic and one or two area mics only. This sounds better and is much less work for you. Please consider this, but you can do it either way.

Take a look at how we recommend describing the band layout here and repost using this format. (Also, take a look herefor more insight about how I'll be helping you design a system.)

I can't be more specific without this information. Don't worry, I'll log in several times over the weekend and will be responsive.

Okay, Great!
Here is the layout of our show from the audiences prospective from left to right.

Player 1:Bass Guitar and Vocals
Player 2:Rythm Guitar and Vocals
Player 3:Lead Guitar and Vocals

NOTE: The drummer is set up almost directly behind player 2!

Hope this helps!

Okay, thanks for writing back with perfect information.

Here goes. You're going to use two baby mixers (Berhinger, Alesis, both under $100).

Mixer 1 inputs: bass guitar (he may want to use a preamp but many bass players are happy just going direct), drum mics (again, I recommend going with just a kick mic and one or two overheads -- make it simple), bass vocal mic. Pan instruments hard left and vocal hard right. Left output of the mixer goes to Channel 1 of the first Cylindrical Radiator(tm) speaker, and Right output goes to Channel 2. Now, the RC1 remote will give you control of instruments and vocal level and tone. Also, you'll be able to use the presets feature of the PS1 power stand, which is fabluous for the vocal mic. You will still have channels 3 & 4 open which you can use for playing back a CD before and after the live music, for example.

Mixer 2 inputs: Rhythm guitar after its gone through a preamp, a modeling amp like the POD XT, or a miked guitar amp (see multiple posts on this elsewhere on this forum -- I highly recommend they try a POD), lead guitar (same), and two vocal mics. Pan guitars hard left and vocals hard right, then do the same thing connecting to the Cylindrical Radiator speaker as above. Experiment with presets for the vocal mics.

Place the two Cylindrical Radiator speakers on the backline to the left and right of the drummer, not too close. It's okay if the bass player or outside guitarist are outside of the speakers. In fact, that will be better in terms of sound distribution. A little experimentation and you guys will figure this out for yourselves.

The two guitarists can get away with one or two B1 bass modules. This depends on how loud you play. I might recommend that you buy two and return one if you don't need it.

You definitely want two B1s for the bass/drums rig. There is a chance -- again, depending on how loud you want to play -- that this will not be enough. The B1 is a really nice bass box. We made it small because musicians told us they hate hate hate heavy bulky gear (another reason for your guitarists to try PODs -- my guess is that they will never want to go back to lugging amps). So the B1 is very modular. If you need more bass, you would buy more B1s and then use an auxiliary amp (you probably already have one for your monitors) and you simply take the Bass Line Output from the PS1 power stand to the aux amp and then into additional B1s. A typical amp will drive four more B1's for a total of six with the two that are driven directly from the amp in the PS1 power stand. A six-pack of B1s is the most we've ever used and it rocks the house.

Now, I want you to understand that you will enjoy many of the benefits of this entirely new approach to amplification. I believe based on the testimony of many, many others, that you will quickly become converted to this naturalistic way of playing. I encourage you to find ways to increase the number of speakers you own (perhaps you can find a way to rent for a few gigs) so that you can enjoy the full benefits of the approach -- namely, an electrified "string" quartet: each player in complete control, the sound of the instruments coming from the direction of the player, etc. This is how things worked for 50,000 years before triple systems. It is time, my friend, to assume our rightful place in the history of music -- to make our music classical -- by applying the same acoustical principles that make unamplified music work so well to our styles, to our music.

We'll see you on the other side, brother. Tell us of your experiences, will you? And of course, tell me if there's anything that's not clear, or if you have any other questions.

Thanks for the help! I don't see that I can purchase just the B1's on the website...I see I can purchase the L1 by itself or w/ up to 2 B1 mods....How much just for the B1 by itself?

Also, when you are saying "mixer 1 inputs", these are inputs that are built into the system correct? Or were you suggesting to use a small external mixer; e.g. a Mackie VLZ 1202?. Thanks again....Time to start some convincing!

Yeah, finding the B1s alone for purchase is not as easy as we want (we're going to fix this.)

Go to www.bose.com/musicians, click on Product Details, then on any of the three packages. Near the top of the screen, click on Accessories, and you'll see the B1 for $299. You can click here and I'll take you there now.

On the mixer, I'm suggesting a small external mixer, yes, like the Mackie 1202. We use that mixer and like it a lot. Smaller mixers from Alesis are even more affordable.

Akami's question about using an Alesis Multimix Mixer is now here:
Using an Alesis Multimix