Hi, we often do gigs that have very small stages approx. 12 feet deep and around 15 feet across. We are a 5 piece band and it can get cramped! We are considering getting two L1's to stand at the back, but I’m trying to get a feel if we will be able to get a satisfactory performance under such limiting conditions. For example will we be able to hear our sound clearly and will the dispersion of sound be adequate, are we likely to get feedback ?

We are a covers band that play medium size venues and we don’t play loud, but at a sensible volume using our current 3-way setup.

Thanks in advance for any info.
Martin

Mash,
I frequently work on stages that size and smaller. In fact my 5 piece band (Quiet on the Set) plays a venue every Wednesday night (The Sugar Shack, Houston,TX). that is almost identical to the setup you describe, about 15' across and no more than 12' deep. We've used 2 L1's quite successfully in that setup.

In fact, the club owner was so impressed with our sound that he bought 4 for the club. We now use 3 systems behind us, and mic the stage to send the mix via wireless to the 4th system in another room.

For best results, it helps move as far forward on the stage as possible, while keeping the L1's at the back. 6-8' in front of the L1's and slightly to the side seems to be everyone's preferred sweet spot.

Having said that, in the setup I mentioned above, I actually sit/stand between and slightly forward of 2 of the L1's. I hear everyone just fine and am continuously blown away by the great sound and even dispersion of these amazing speakers.

Take the plunge, you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

(check you PM)

Hello Martin,

Thanks for joining us.

Can you say a bit more about the music you are playing, where your are doing it and the size of your audiences.

Please try The Sketcher, the online stage layout tool. You drag instruments onto a stage with your mouse, and in a couple of minutes we'll all be talking about the same thing.



You don't have to put the L1™ Systems in place. I can do that for you.

We're just basically looking for who is playing what, and where they are standing on the stage.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,

Hi Chad and ST.

thanks for the info it's what I was hoping for and has encouraged me.

Some background about me - I’m in the UK and a member of a part-time covers band that play popular classics from the 50’s up to modern day songs. I have created a sketch of our typical layout which employs the standard monitor / FOH PA Setup and this should be on the sketcher.

We play clubs to a size of 100 - 150 people, no bigger and have no plans to play at larger venues.

Initialy I’m looking to replace my Marshall combo with an L1, to play my electric guitar and Yamaha keyboard through. Both myself and the lead singer use a Zoom multi FX pedals on guitar.

In time we would like to add a second L1 to replace the PA, but the other band members are short on funds at the moment.

Thanks

Hi mash,

Thanks for using The Sketcher!

This is just a quick note to send you a link to your Sketch in case you want to review it, edit it, or share it with others.


-- click image to make changes to the live version --

Back to you with some ideas in a bit.

Hi Mash,

Just checking:

You are #4 (no vocals)

The lead singer is #1

Is that correct?

Hi ST

yes that is correct.

1 = male lead singer / guitarist (Marshall AVT100 combo)
2 = female lead / backing vocal
3 = male backing vocal / bass player (Peavey bass stack)
4 = me on guitar / key board (Marshall MG100 combo)
(5) = drums - we occasionally mic the kick drum through PA

Cheers

Hi Mash,

If you are player 4 (I changed the player numbers to the dark numbers). then here is how your stage might look.


-- click image to make changes to the live version --

For a sense of rough 'scale' the PS1 Base unit is 26" x 26"


Codes:
Orange numbers are Systems and Inputs using those Systems.
Blue ringed numbers are Channels on the Systems.
Green numbers are for general notes about the Sketch and connections to non-Bose gear.


System 1:

• Channel 1: Guitar through oom multi FX pedal
  
• Channel 2: Keyboard
  
  

Hi Mash,

Here is a fast look at how you could do things with two Systems.



-- click image to make changes to the live version --


I think our messages are crossing over each other heading 'round the world.

When the time comes to think about micing the Kick Drum, we're going to have to be creative.

Do you have a small unpowered mixer?


P.S. It's 3:30 am in my part of the world (UTC-7) so I'll probably not get back to this for several hours.

ST

thank you very much for taking the time and effort to do this for me, I am at very grateful for such a quick and professional response.

The proposed setup looks good and confirms what I was thinking, I’m assuming this is the L1 single bass package to give me some bottom end on the keyboards ?

Could I trouble you to take me one step further and perhaps give a suggestion on a final solution that would enable us to dispense with the whole PA, lead singer guitar combo and Bass stack ?

Many thanks for your support.
Martin

Hi Martin,

You are welcome.

I will get back to you with a 'final solution' in the morning.

In the meantime, I was thinking that if you are letting the Bass handle most of the fundamental roots, then you might not need a second B1 module for your keyboards. If you did not have a Bass player and you were running Bass-lines through the keys, then we would be talking about a double B1 solution for you.

Anyway - have to catch some ZZZZZ's before I start thinking about your final solution. I hope that's ok.

Just a couple of questions for you for now:

What kinds of mics are you using? (make/model)
What kind of mic do you use for the Kick Drum when you do that? (make/model)

Do you have a small mixer handy (this is not critical, but helpful to know). (make/model)

Hi ST

I tend to forget the time zone difference when using the Internet!

we use sennheiser mics for vocals, not sure which models but assume they are the mid range ones and not high end stuff!

We also use a sennheiser mic on the kick drum sometimes.

In the mean time I'll have a look at the docs to re-familiarise myself with the inputs.

Best regards

Oh yes forgot to mention I use the AUX IN on the Zoom unit to connect the keyboard as it saves running two cables to the combo, which only has one guitar input and a CD input. I have used the CD input on the combo in the past, but it sounds muddy, where as going via the Zoom AUX IN gives a brighter sound which I prefer and as I say one less cable to trip over!

Thinking about this with the L1, I guess I should use a dedicated input for guitar and keyboard in order to take advantage of the presets for each instrument.

Hi Martin,

I've got three more layouts for you.

Three Systems:
I have added System (a Double B1 System and a A1 PackLite ™ Extended Bass Package (A1 + two B1 Bass Modules).

This gets everybody and everything running through the L1™ Systems.


-- click image to make changes to the live version --

System is supporting Vocal and Bass for the Bassist .

We also have the Kick Drum Mic running through the same System. This will work, but I have what I think would be a better idea, coming up in the next post.

If you wanted to split the Bass Guitar and the Kick Drum, (my preference) then you could add another B1 or the A1 PackLite ™ Extended Bass Package (A1 + two B1 Bass Modules) to System and run the Kick Drum through that System.


-- click image to make changes to the live version --

And finally,
This is very close to how my band sets up. We typically have 4 players and 4 Systems


-- click image to make changes to the live version --

I know this is more than you asked for, but I thought you might like to see it.

The biggest difference is that in our set-up we have the Drummer off to one side of the stage. This tends to make it easier for everyone to hear.

quote:

my 5 piece band (Quiet on the Set)

What an awesome name for a Bose Band!!


BTW, we find the more cramped we are the better it all sounds.

quote:

Originally posted by mash:
Oh yes forgot to mention I use the AUX IN on the Zoom unit to connect the keyboard as it saves running two cables to the combo, which only has one guitar input and a CD input. I have used the CD input on the combo in the past, but it sounds muddy, where as going via the Zoom AUX IN gives a brighter sound which I prefer and as I say one less cable to trip over!

Thinking about this with the L1, I guess I should use a dedicated input for guitar and keyboard in order to take advantage of the presets for each instrument.

Good thoughts.

I do the same thing - run a second input through my PODXT Live. This is typically an MP3 player that we use for 'break tunes'. But you are right, in your case you want to run each source to a separate input so you can take advantage of the presets.

About the mics - I was just asking so we could document some suggestions for the presets. We don't have to do that now. You can sort it out when you get the Systems.

We probably don't need a small mixer unless you want to add overhead mics for the Trap Kit.

If you want some interesting reading - try the The Unofficial Users' Guide. Lots of information for you there.

wow, again many thanks for the great information. I'm looking over teh documentation you suggest, cheers.

Best regards Martin