Okay so I just want to say I'm impressed with what I've seen and it looks like a solid solution. But of course (and im sure you expect this) its not perfect. And since i havent actually heard it I'm just going on assumptions here.

I play in a band that is very tone conscious. I play through a Rivera Knucklehead and my buddy plays through a marshall JCM800 and a mode four. With the exception of the mode four these are all tube powered amps. I love tube tone and I spend a lot of time tweaking and listening to my sound to make sure its perfect. I have a booklet i write all my settings down in and it stays with my amp or guitar all the time.

My sound that I want comes directly from the fact that its tube driven. with my settings and comes out of my guitar cabinet. Thats my signature sound. which i wont get plugged directly into a box thats powering these speakers.

The truth about rock music as far as i see it is that people want to hear it loud. Not the kind of loud thats out of control but we're talking rock n' roll here right? Thats why we amplify ourselves and suck all the juice out of the wall sockets. My tube tone comes from cranking my amp. I love to hear my music but i also love to feel it. When i mute a chord i like to feel that thump inside the cavity of my chest. Can this system reproduce that from the speakers?

I've played so many shows where the sound guy had it his way and doesn't listen to the musicians. Theres never any compromise made. all we have is control of the volume of our amps. He always gets his way and if you know it sounds like crap you just make it worse trying to make it better without his "permission"

I've been to a lot of live shows like Tool, Evanescence, Finger eleven, the tea party. and they all sounded great with the traditional setup. Yet the opening band gets up there to open for them and you can tell they ahve all the same problems us average joes have. Maybe the solution is to have an educated sound guy that has played ina band before and listens to people?

Please, comments. Anybody out there a tube head/tone junky like me?

sorry the link didn't work. heres the right one.

VA, It would appear you already know from experience what works best.

If you take the concept of letting each band member control his own level one step further...

Imagine if you went into a recording studio and during the mix down you let each musician control the sliders of his recorded tracks.
Do you really think you would get the best mix possible?

Robert L

Hi Voltions Advocate.

How would you like to be able to take that carefully crafted tone and deliver it throughout the house?

You don't have to give up your tone to share it with everyone.


Check this out:

Click the picture then click on Speaker Directionality

I get that. i watched all the movies. But in order to get my tone i still need my amp on stage. so I've got the pillar or whatever its called to get the sound where its needed. But I still have my amp blasting from the stage. A solution would be mike the amp in a totally different room so none of its sound comes to the auditorium, just the signal through the speakers. but thats hardly practical or realistic is it? See where I'm confused? Yeah gear is a hassle sometimes. it would be great to just bring a guitar and a cable and plug it in. Or even a preamp with some modelling capabilities, but its MY gear and I love it and i've invested thousands into it. Basically this is asking me to replace my amplifier with the new system. But thats just not an option.

I can see great uses for this as a replacement for onstage monitoring. Which would also fill the gaps between the loudspeakers on the floor in front.

But as a replacement for my amplifier? I doubt it would give me the sound I would be satisfied with.

I like the idea of using both. But my amp has to be on stage no matter what.

There are some very good modeling solutions out there, but some guys have to have their amp sound. In this case you can face the amp offstage & mic it or even put a sound blanket over it to muffle the sound competing with the L1 from the amp. Some use air brakes or power brakes or smaller amps to get the tone without the volume.

If you do a search for guitar tone or Tony Sarno you will find a lot of discussion about getting that great amp sound through the L1. I've done both routes (amp & modeling pedal) to get my sound with great results.

Tom

quote:

Originally posted by Voltions Advocate:
... But I still have my amp blasting from the stage... I like the idea of using both. But my amp has to be on stage no matter what.

Both works ... the key will be whether you really need to have your existing amp "blasting" on the stage. The effect you want from your amp is to get "the sound" ... but only just loud enough for the mic to pick it up well.

Then let the Bose blow that same great sound throughout the stage and the room. Everywhere. What goes into the mic goes everywhere.

Hello Voltions Advocate

I hear ya brother.

What strikes me about electric guitar players is that they are the ONLY ones that use amplification and at least THEY get the satisfaction of getting their tone, night after night.

What's truly remarkable and inspring to me is that they will just kill themselves to get that tone -- they'll crawl to the ends of the earth to find it.

POWER TO YOU.

I think that if other players using amplification had what you electric guitar players have -- oodles of options for getting ferocious tone and level, they'd do it too. If singers, for example, could do, they'd crawl too.

What's so incredibly frustrating, though, is the fact that YOU, and only YOU, get to enjoy that tone. NO ONE ELSE GETS IT.

BUMMER!

I mean, it's cool that at least the player is happy, and I can see why electric guitar players rule the world. They get their tone for them, while everybody else never gets their tone, for them or anyone else.

Until now.

Mostly.

With a little love, surrender and devotion (to quote the album name of two great electric guitarists -- Carlos Santana and John Mcglaughlin).

Here's the deal.

The L1™ system is a no-brainer for everybody BUT electric guitar players, for the reasons explained above. They get (finally) an amplification system that allows THEM to get THEIR tone just like you have gotten yours. YAY!

AND.

And this is very important.

Everybody else gets their tone too. Because of the very unusual sound projection characterists of the L1 system.

For electric guitar players, there's more to overcome for them to consider this new approach. And you, my friend, have put your finger just exactly on the issue. To repeat, many of them are already happy with their tone. Like you.

Will they abandon that tone in order to better serve their bandmates and audiences?

Hmm.

I doubt it.

And that's not to say electric guitar players are selfish. I think it's human nature. HOLD ON TO WHAT YOU'VE GOT! DON'T GIVE GROUND!

So the question is, can you preserve that tone and at the same time project it to everyone and thereby increase THEIR enjoyment and satisfaction with your music?

The answer is mixed I'd say.

A TON of electric guitar players have succeeded in doing it, and they rave about it all over their message board.

Some we know have tried to take advantage of the L1™ system and felt they could not preserve their tone.

Many, many, MANY have never even tried.

Here is one thing I can say without equivocation. The L1 system can ROCK. And does. It is not some facsimile of loud. It IS loud, when you want to be.

Just as an experiment, and not to suggest that this is your tone, take a Fender Pro Junior, stick an SM57 up to the grill in front of the cone, connect the mic to the L1 system channel 1, select the SM57 ToneMatch™ preset for the 57, turn up the amp, and CRANK IT.

Do this at a Guitar Center store (where they have all the gear) and REALLY LET IT RIP. SHRED TILL YOUR EYES POP OUT.

Do this for thirty seconds, and watch what happens. They will come like lemmings from all over the store to find out WHAT THE HECK IS MAKING SUCH AMAZING TONE.

Please.

Try this.

With best regards,

Ken Jacob
Chief Engineer

Still, I think there are a whole lot of players that

Hello Voltions Advocate ,
What I have found since I've been using the L1/B1 system , is that there is a trade off in the old way of amplifying guitar . The best way to figure out the trade off is to get on stage in a small club where there is no house system . The majority of gigs happen in such places . Get your tone set where your in ectasy , then walked out onto the dance floor from one side to the other . You'll find your great tone has disappeared , and that people sitting to the left and right of you never heard that great tone to begin with. You were in a cocoon (sweet spot). If your playing to please yourself then this system won't probably ever please you , but if your playing to the crowd , which you obviously are or you wouldn't be researching this new approach ,then there are optional ways to get that great tone to the people on all sides . There are devices you can purchase to add to your existing setup that will allow your tone to get out at lower volumes so your overall stage sound is balanced among the stage area . A Dr. Z Airbrake comes to mind .
I switched from a Fender Super Reverb to a Korg Ampworks processor . I have more guitar players coming up to inspect what I'm using now . They like what they hear .
The tradeoff is your comfort zone, mind set of making tone vs. good clear even sounding tone .
Always keep an open mind - J.D.

VA

I totally understand your predicament. YOu have invested so much time and money and finally have a tone and a rig you like. Is the other reason that your amp must be onstage a visual one? Believe me, you'd be in the minority of guitar players if you didn't. It's the whole electric guitar culture thing, deeply a part of our music. I've spent my last 40 years working with electric guitar players and totally understand what you're up against and who you are. I love electric guitar. I don't particularly love a stage full of amps that looks like a scale model of Chicago. But I truly love the sound of electric guitar and what it does in the music I love.

The problem for you is that your 4x10 or 4x12 cab is probably the worse invention ever for distribution of any musical sound. I pity the unlucky audience members in direct line with your band's cabs, ears bleeding from the Laser Beam of Death. And of course you and the mates stand off to the side, for good reason. No one in their right mind would put such a device at ear level and play loud. (Instead, you aim it at your audiences). I pity your unfortunate bandmates, like the ones on the edge of the setup, because all they get is a very dull, far-away artifact of the tone you create. When it comes down to it, you are pretty much the only one that hears the tone you love. And, of course, none of you hear what the audience gets. Someone else is in control of this, not your band. Please accept all this as truth, because it is. I'm not trying to sell you one of our L1 systems here, or try to convince you to sell your guitar rig. I am, however, trying to help you as a concerned fellow musician.

What I'm saying is a matter of well-documented and unquestionable truth. Your guitar rig; the guitar amp; has been the only game in town, pretty much. It's all that is (or has been) available for the electric guitarist. So, rather than go home, we all want to play. But, aside from the tone you can craft where you stand, every guitar amp has so many other problems, such as in my discussion.


If you need your rig for sound level, I think you'll find that the L1 is totally capable of keeping up with it. Your main problem as an artist is getting the right tone, which I agree is everything. If you have good tone, you have a good vibe to play inside. It's true for any musician.

Electric guitar tone is a weird animal. It's elusive and hard to come by. But distribution of electric guitar tone is a simple matter. The L1 does it better than any single musical sound system in history ever has. That's a fact too. So, my recommendation to you is (if you agree with my comments) start experimenting with the L1 and with an open mind and with open ears. Give one of the better guitar processors a good shake, like the PODxt Live. Try the amp models and crank it where you want it. Another really useful thing to try is a good juicy "small" amp, like a Fender Pro Junior or one of those little Marshalls. Put an sm57 in front of it, use one of our presets for this, and see if it doesn't come up like a real big amp. In this case, however, EVERYONE will receive and hear your tone, not just you.

YOu can get an L1 on a trial basis, no questions asked on return. YOu can probably get processors at GC or even MF and return them if you don't like it. I'd give all this a try. Be objective. Listen and play. See what works for you.

And, unlike any guitar amp, you can sing powerfully and clearly through the L1.

Tawk to me.

JD

Well said.

Hi VA - This has been my amp of choice for the past dozen years or so. Here's a short CLIP of my (all Bose) band from a gig last year. At the last minute my bass player decided to throw a stereo mic into a hard disc recorder and hang it from the ceiling 20 feet in front of the band. It was directly in front of the drums, so the mix is a bit drum heavy from what the audience was hearing, but it's live and raw and untouched, and will give you an idea of some classic rock guitar tones through the L1.

Great clip jonz.
I didn't see that amp when I saw you in Ashby, you were going thru a POD XT were you not?
Have you switched over or do you go back and forth?

Whatever it was, it sounded wonderful.

Great guitar playing.

gittar-jonz

I really enjoyed that clip (several times) - and it is one of the reasons that I know that you and I will have to get together and play some, someday.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I've read about 2 dozen reviews by end-users on these things and either its total rave or total disappointment. I guess it depends on what you're trying to get out of it. You're right, obviously that I am looking for a better way, so I am keeping my mind open. I want to give this thing a try and even If I dont end up necessarily liking it the way its meant to be used maybe i will like it for another application? Its all about objectivity and logic and making sure you dont have any preconceived ideas before you start.

I live in southern Alberta and I think the nearest place to check em out would be Calgary. Im guessing. The problem I've found is that music here isn't a huge industry, everybody is more concerned with oil and agriculture, so music stores dont stock a lot of high end stuff. you have to order it. which puts the "try before you buy" mentality at a loss. (bought my amp in santa monica during a road trip just because I know that in LA i'd be able to try out a bunch of different things before having to order it in).

Who deals with Bose in alberta?

Yeah, Garry will help you out in a heartbeat if you're near Calgary.

Tom

Thanks for the compliments guys, but I posted the clip to show the tone, not the playing. And Pete - you are correct about my rig. I put the picture of my Matchless up to show that I - like every guitarist I know - had been on a decades long never ending obsessive quest for the ultimate tone... even at the expense of buying a $3,000 amp. As far as the clip you heard... there wasn't a single backline amp on the stage that night. I used a PodXT Live to L1, the second guitarist used a Yamaha DG Stomp to L1, and keys and bass went direct to their L1's. And as you can hear from the audience's reaction, there weren't too many people sitting there thinking to themselves "hmmm, that guitar tone doesn't sound quite... tubey enough."

It makes me want to go back through all my old posts to relive my own well documented hypocrisy. The journey from being a tube snob Pod hater to rejoicing in the simplicity of the most consistent and best sounding rig I've ever owned would be fun to look back over. I think I might do that.

quote:

Imagine if you went into a recording studio and during the mix down you let each musician control the sliders of his recorded tracks. Do you really think you would get the best mix possible?

Well Robert... possibly not. But by the time it was all over you would get what the band wanted.

And that's more important.