Hi all, I just finished reading the user reviews on the Musicians Friend site for the L1. All I can say is I am totally flabergasted by the amount of ignorance about audio in general and the L1 in particular some of the "expert" reviewers have displayed! I have new empathy for all at Bose who are trying to market the PAS concept when in reality, you are simultaneously trying to reeducate the entire musical community in the hope that some will open their minds to the fact that time marches on and eventually someone comes up with a better way! One aspect that I personally find frustrating is the shrill treble, barking midrange and over hyped bass so commonplace with todays music and sound systems have led many to a warped idea of audio accuracy and fidelity to the point that any deviation is considered "bad sound". Then there are those who for whatever reason don't have all the facts before they spout and spread potentially damaging misinformation. One of my favorites is the person who states that; "Bose says to stand in front of the unit while playing. After about 45 minutes of practice, I was half deaf". DUH!! I think I laughed for at least 45 minutes at that one! Then there is the audio genius who is complaining about the the fact that the system is high Q "except for the sub---if you want to call it a sub---omni directional LF---perfect for echo enhancement". Correct me if I'm wrong but I've never heard of a directional subwoofer ! Anyway, I could go on and on but I would just like to say that I really feel sympathy for the uphill battle that sometimes must be fought in the name of progress. I'll get off my soapbox now, but in closing I would like to say that I try my very best to explain the advantages of the system to all that will listen but sometimes find it frustrating that some folks just can't or won't hear the very obvious (to me), improvement in the way we, as musicians can apply our craft.

Aptly titled, welcome to the fold Mike.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DrumrPete,

Hi Mike - There is a quote that Ken-at-Bose has shared with us, that puts the knee jerk arguments of the unaware into perspective:

"At every crossway on the road that leads to the future, each progressive spirit is opposed by a thousand men appointed to guard the past."

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that quote is also emblazoned on the wall outside of Dr. Bose's office in larger than life letters. It really does sum up the philosophy and mission of this company as a whole.

The quote is from Maurice Maeterlink, Belgian Nobel Laureate.

And to think many music companies just have Bart Simpson quotes on their walls! But then again - if you listen to their gear...

I was just thinking if I rode a horse to gigs I could save a lot of money on gas... but right now it is only 3 degrees outside here so that could be tough. So I will have to use my car. Which by the way all my gear fits into.

I spent two weeks hovelling around "reputable" message boards and came back just bruised and worn out from the amount of HORRID information that is being thrust upon the "information superhighway" with regard to our craft.

Oh man, I could write a novel here about it.

quote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I've never heard of a directional subwoofer

Yes Virginia, There are such things as directional subwoofers. In fact, if you dig into the Bose Pro website I think you will find that arrays of MB4 subwoofers can be made directional with the use of the Panaray Controller.
Meyer Sound makes a cardioid subwoofer as well.

Cardioid Sub

Robert L

A cardiod sub! Impressive....most impressive . Guess I've been out of the "loop" too long! But could it be applied on a small scale and economicaly enough to make it a viable option for something like the PAS? Last time I checked, Meyer sound doesn't do anything in a small way or at a price point that I could ever afford. As it is, the price of the PAS has alot of folks that I talk to balking at the whole idea. If it were possible to achieve with a PAS, then perhaps the criticism is valid? But "arrays" of MB4's are starting to move into the realm of less transportable let alone affordable. I like the fact that the B1's are so small. Easily cartable and fit into small spaces when room in your vehcle is limited. Another thought...Do you really want a directional sub in an application like the PAS where one of the points is to have everyone across the stage able to hear you a in a consistent manner? Or do directional subs still spread enough lows off axis to where this becomes a non-issue?

Just a word of encouragement,

We brought our PAS system to a club that already had a traditional SUPER bass setup and of course used our L1 instead of their huge system. The Soundguy (who was completely unneccesary as a result) was "pumped" to hear the PAS, he'd "Heard great things about it".

And the crowd (especially the folks over 30) LOVED it, the owner was impressed. We're gonna get booked back (for more money next time AND slowly but surely I think this idea will sink in.

The Soundguy played some dancing tunes (rude Rock and Hiphip) in between our sets (we were doing the Acoustic Duo thing) on the house system.

Compared to us, the recorded music sounded WAY too harsh on the high end and bottom. It made conversation unbearable in the bar and I literally saw people get up and leave directly after he put on the music, (which was too effin' loud)

Audience memebrs came up and said "you know usually we leave once the band starts playing, but we're sticking around because you guys sound so good and it's not hurting our ears, we don't care much for the DJ music, but you sound very good"

I think it's partly because we're a good sounding group, but partly because the PAS is just a way better sounding system.

What an awesome gig report ! Very Nice

quote:

But "arrays" of MB4's are starting to move into the realm of less transportable let alone affordable.

You can make a directional bass array with just two MB4 subs and a panaray controller.

Robert L

Or, to do it the Meyer Sound way, you would use three MB4 bass modules, and make one of them fire rearward, and then delay the output of that third module to create the cardioid dipole effect.

I have to say, I'm also getting tired of the one-sided Bose-bashing fests organized by those who believe that flat power response is the holy grail of high fidelity. That's the thing that Bose seems to get the most crap for -- their commitment to the use of full-range drivers instead of multiway systems. They make a huge deal of the fact that many Bose systems roll off before 15kHz, when in reality a phase-coherent, crossoverless single-driver loudspeaker is superior to multi-driver loudspeakers in producing the much sought-after 'imaging' effect that stereo loudspeakers are meant to produce. I recently purchased a Bose Acoustimass 3 system, and found that without all that Direct-Reflecting hocus pocus, the system actually produces a convincing sonic image, right up there with some of the best single-driver designs I've heard. I also picked up a set of used Bose 141s from eBay -- I'll see how those compare.

I'm still waiting to meet the sound engineer who's solved all the problems of amplification BELOW 15 kHz and has moved on to those above.

Ken

I've put 8,000 miles on my van in the last 3 weeks and did 18 gigs with my PS1 system during that time. (Got it on Feb 1)

Last week we were at an 800 seater church with a $100,000 sound system but they had the DVD player in a different location than the sound booth and were unable to accomodate our usage of DVD for accompanyment tracks.

So, with 25 minutes to go before starting we decided to use our own system. The sound crew panicked!

We were set up with 10 minutes to spare and they were staring at the column like the Victrola dog.

After our first set, both sound men told me that our system sounded better than theirs and were lamenting the money that could have been spent on missions instead.

At almost every single place we've played in the last month I could have sold a system or two. How can I become a dealer?

MY band mate and me bought 2 L1 systems about a year agao and we played about 30 club gigs now. There was not one gig among them that brought up problems. With the L1 we performed under conditions we never could manage before getting this new way aof amplifying instruments and voices. And there was not one gig among them we had not to discuss the system with interested people. The musicians generally comment the sound with positive statements. We often hear the 'unbelievable how good it sounds'-comment. Usually we get booked back. The audience loves the cool looks of the stage - a statement we never heard BEFORE using the L1 We didn't experience too much ignorance so far. It is the other way round. After the gigs some start to think about buying the system for themselves. The musicians we met usually say 'this systeme looks terribly expensive' - and they are surprised that it costs 'only' about the price of a good guitar. In 5 or ten years from now I think it will be just 'normal' to see the L1 on stages. Ralph www.blissnblue.com

quote:

Originally posted by Ken-at-Bose:
The quote is from Maurice Maeterlink, Belgian Nobel Laureate.

Yup. Another decent person with something true and lasting to say.

Lucky and delighted are those who share life in the same time frame of Ben Franklin's and Amar Bose's.

And Ken Jacob's.

quote:

Originally posted by BigKyle-at-Bose:
...Oh man, I could write a novel here about it.

Okay, Kyle. I'm waiting for Chapter One. Chop-chop.

Just don't start out with, "It was dark and stormy night, but I had my L1..."

Lol.

Dennis

quote:

Originally posted by Davecfraser:
I think it's partly because we're a good sounding group, but partly because the PAS is just a way better sounding system.

So there you go, Dave. You have written a true testament of what the L1 can do - in two-part harmony.

PART ONE: We sound good already.

PART TWO: The L1 makes that a much, much clearer fact.

Dennis