I had a real learning experience last night at an L1 demo for a church nearby.
The congregation needed a sound system for the minister, spoken word mostly.
They had been using a karaoke machine or nothing at all, up to now.

On arrival I found an approximate 40x60’ room, very live, no softening materials.
The room was bass-y, and echo-y, vocal intelligibility was low when speaking with the ladies while setting up.

I brought in all three systems to show them the options, Classic, Model II, and Compact.
The Classic system and the Model II both excited those room modes quite a bit.
We got lots of boom-y-ness and echo, even at lower volumes with bass rolled off.

The Compact, with the bass rolled completely off the OM5 was near perfection,
we barely heard the room, vocal sounded natural and full.

Music through an MP3 player sounded clean and sparkling with a flat setting.
The Compact was best when positioned about 6-8’ out from the corner.
In the corner or near the hollow elevated stage, it got too bass-y.

I was as shocked as anyone by the performance of the Compact in this room.
Everyone who was listening preferred the Compact, hands down.
The Classic was the first runner up.
I had to agree with them that the Model II just didn’t sound that good in there.
I’d expected the Compact to excite the echo, as the speakers shoot up into the high ceiling.
But it didn’t, and the full size L1s did. Don’t know why.

I had everyone walk all around the church while music played,
and they were of course, amazed at the consistency of the sound.
Sound was comfortable in the pews in front of the Compact and the same at the very back of the room.
I admit to being rather surprised myself at just how smooth and consistent it was.

I’m pretty sure they will decide on the Compact for their church.
I have another church demo on Sunday morning at a similar looking building.
I've decided to take only take the Compact to this one.
Ah, the simplicity.

Here is a pic of the room.




Here is a little video I shot with my cell phone.

Hi Drumr Pete,

Thanks for this report.

I wonder if the difference in the crossover was making the difference for the Compact.

Compact: approximately 400 Hz
Model I / Classic : 180 Hz
Model II : 200 Hz
References below: ¹

I'm thinking that if the issue here is low end reverberation then the Compact would have the advantage here.

If that *was* the issue then maybe using the zEQ and ParaEQ to aggressively reduce the low end would have helped the Model II.

The vertical dispersion on the Compact is pretty narrow (20°)¹. I expect that by the time sound it was shooting upward hit the high ceiling, there wasn't a lot of sound energy to start things bouncing around. With that and the frequencies being 400 Hz and up, maybe this wasn't in the range that set off the room.


¹References:
Compact Vertical Dispersion

Compact Crossover

Classic Crossover

Model II Crossover

Drumr, where was that pic taken in relation to the back wall of the room.

Pete - Interesting demo results. I can't help but wonder what (if anything) might change once people start filling up the pews and an ambient noise level is present with them and the HVAC.

quote:

I wonder if the difference in the crossover was making the difference for the Compact.
Compact: approximately 400 Hz
Model I / Classic : 180 Hz
Model II : 200 Hz
...if the issue here is low end reverberation then the Compact would have the advantage...then maybe using the zEQ and ParaEQ to aggressively reduce the low end would have helped the Model II.

Hi ST, I knew you'd have the more technical info leading to results I heard. I agree with you.

The Model II, already had an 8db cut on the vocal channel @440hz over 1.5 octaves, to help with the boom my voice exaggerated at our last gig where I was in a corner. In the church, it sounded very thin to us. So I bypassed the Para EQ, and just rolled off some zEQ, and it was better. Music sounded fine. Still, the folks there thought the Compact sounded more natural, by way of not exciting the room so much.

quote:

The vertical dispersion on the Compact is pretty narrow (20°)¹. I expect that by the time sound it was shooting upward hit the high ceiling, there wasn't a lot of sound energy to start things bouncing around. With that and the frequencies being 400 Hz and up, maybe this wasn't in the range that set off the room.

I wasn't aware of the 20% thing...that would explain that part.

quote:

Drumr, where was that pic taken in relation to the back wall of the room.

hi getrythm, I was about 8-10' from the back wall.

quote:

I can't help but wonder what (if anything) might change once people start filling up the pews and an ambient noise level is present with them and the HVAC.

Hi John, I'm sure the audience will tone down the system in a good way.
The A/C was running at the time...silent unless I put my ear to the floor vents.

So I think when the room fills they will also be able to turn up the Compact (and bass) even more.
I had been running about 11am for the demonstration (close mic), but later we cranked the Compact up to about 2 pm, and I was 6" from the pulpit mic, and we still had a good level. Showing them that the talker might not need to be eating-the-mic. However, I did recommend they purchase a Countryman mic, and wireless system.

Thanks!

I just got home from my second church L1 demo this morning. This time I only took the Compact. The church had a wireless mic at the pulpit with a receiver at the back of the (24x36'/high ceiling) room, wired into a Radio Shack *guitar amp* looking thing. The liturgist had a lapel mic with a receiver/speaker cabinet, also in the rear of the room. Both mics sounded hollow and awful.

I set up the Compact about where it was at Wednesday's demo, hooked up the OM5 and talked a bit to the folks there. They all were wide eyed, saying things like "wow, nice and clear".

I put the OM5 on the pulpit mounted mic stand for the pastor, and he took his usual position and began speaking. We couldn't hear him thru the Compact at the distance he kept from the mic. He said, "it's got to work at this distance, and we'll have to hook the lapel mic into that thing too". Well, that wasn't possible as the lapel mic's recevier was hardwired to it's speaker cab. So we all just kind of looked at each other.

I hadn't brought the Model II with me, so that option was out, but I'd already realized that if they were unwilling to move closer to the mic, or buy a better head worn, there was not much I could do for them.

I told them that this was the only sound system I personally could recommend, and that they would be best to look at some other approach, more in the line with their traditional mindset. "Sorry I can't help you" I said, and packed up.

So, 50/50 success rate this week. Not too shabby.

I don't feel bad about this little failure at all. When this church approached me, they told me what they wanted, and it was not what I would have recommended, but told them I'd come out and we could *rule out* my approach, and then they'd be free to pursue something else. We ruled it out, and now they can get on with their search for great sound. I wish them all good luck.

Hey there Drumr Pete,

First, I think it's really good of you to take the time to share the Compact experience with these people. No amount of talking or reading about it can replace the experience of hearing it.

quote:

I hadn't brought the Model II with me, so that option was out, but I'd already realized that if they were unwilling to move closer to the mic, or buy a better head worn, there was not much I could do for them.

If they are unwilling to move closer to the microphone or buy a better head worn, I doubt that anything will be an improvement. Perhaps, when they figure that out, they will contact you again.

In the meantime, they've heard the how good things could be... the next step is theirs.


edit: grammar

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,

thanks for the info Drumr.

Hi Pete!
Well, you tried! Honestly, I think it's hard for people to "change", sometimes. Compromising or changing the the way in which they have always done something is hard for some people. It sounds like you found a good example this morning!

At work, we often have situations where a portable podium, mic, and the Classic L1® system are used for spoken word. We're using a podium mic like this with a long boom. It works for us. The President and others that use it don't seem as intimidated with it, since it is smaller and less obvious, and it sounds wonderful. A few times with it, and they are very comfortable now, and they don't have to "eat the mic", as we say. Would be interesting to see if you could have gained acceptance with something like this, if they were opposed to the head worn mic.

I feel sorry for the members of the congregation. When the timing is right, I suspect things might change.... Kudos for trying...!

That's why I haven't approached anyone at our church...of the 10 or so vocalists, no one uses the correct mic technique, they certainly don't "eat" the mic, and most of them won't sing if they can hear themselves. It's just a losing battle I'm not willing to even fight...

I did, however, run into another solo musician at a gig I did and described the L1 to her (I also demo'd the disassembly). She is very excited about the prospect of this system, and I'm going to provide my L1 for her on one of her next gigs at this venue, so she can try it out.

I guess you either get it or you don't...

Well, I've been most fortunate in that the church we are a part of has never used anything but the L1's (initially two Model 1s; a third Model 2 last year when e-drums were added).

They've learned to work with them and do what is necessary to get the sound THEY want:

be it the youth running them as a full-out rock band (with guitarist using their own little amp with a terrible buzz ... because that's the sound they want!!)

or a group of 8 women clustered around 4 mics connected to a single L1.

the pastors initially reluctantly using a Countryman head mic -- (because I told them that was the only way we could record the sermons ... not strictly true, but by far easiest way to get a good recording -LOL!). Now, a couple of them prefer the head mic because of the mobility over the "podium" mic (which is just a standard vocal mic on a free-standing mic stand).

When we temporarily moved into a different room for the summer (because it has air-conditioners and the worship-space does not!), I suggested only using one L1 because of space considerations and simplicity. The singers insisted on bringing in a second L1 and re-worked the layout to accommodate it -- they thought it'd be necessary for the volume. -- I knew it wouldn't be necessary for the volume, but who was I to object to improving the clarity by separating some of the voices and instruments?

People using a hand-held mic (such as coming up to do a "kids sermon") are so used to the sound they've heard in the congregation that they naturally adjust the mic-to-mouth distance to hear that same sound when they are sitting on the floor with the kids ... I've had to give zero instructions to them.

The "usual singers" re-arrange themselves so that the ones who like most to hear themselves are standing closest to the associated L1.

One of the soloists sometimes comes up to stand "at the front of the cave" when doing a solo because they like being more 'immersed' in the sound of the accompaniment during their solos ... but moving back to be with the other singers the rest of the time so they can hear each other better to blend -- all without my having to say anything about 'adjust your personal monitoring by moving your physical position'.


The primary "suggestions" for improvements have been:

maybe we could have a "console at the back" to run everything -- I say, "there's not really space for it in this place at the present time (which there isn't!), let's see how things go." ... from someone who's relatively new that is used to a 'conventional' installation.

"maybe we should add some hanging speakers to get more sound at the back" -- until they actually spend some time sitting at the back. They "assumed" it wasn't as loud at the back because it was fine near the front where they were sitting.

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