Just wondering if anyone is using the L1 system as a FoH. I have three systems for the back line, but at larger places would like to use 2 more systems in front, so I wouldn't have to increase stage volume. Not even sure how I would mix the back 3 to the front 2. Any thoughts.

Hi David,

L1™s as FOH and backline monitoring - this comes up from time to time, but it is very application specific. So - some questions.

How many people are on stage, and what are they doing? You can use The Sketcher to show us your stage layout. It should be faster than typing an answer. Really.

How large is the space you are trying to fill?

You have noticed that the L1™ seems to project farther than other kinds of speakers, and that is why we don't need as much volume on stage to get to the back of a room.

It is likely better to work with some specifics as we try to ponder the benefits of dedicating two L1™s to FOH duties.

I am trying to understand the problems you want to address. If you are filling the space, but the stage volume is too high, then let's talk about what is on stage (hence the Sketcher). If things are okay now, but you are anticipating larger spaces, then let's talk about how large those spaces might be.

Then we can work out whether or not there is anything significant to be gained by buying more L1™s, and after that we can figure out the connections.

How's that for a start?

Saved the sketch - not sure if it will post. Main problem is at larger rooms if I want more volume, but not stage volume, I would need something in front. I have Mackie gear, but would prefer the lighter weight Bose L1s.

Quickly:
First system is me - guitar and vocals.
Second is our Keyboardist - she also sings and plays acoustic.
Third is our lead vocalist, electronic drums and sequenced bass.

I would only use FoH at front of house, or at some clubs that want really loud music. (yes, I've been asked to turn up, I thought we were too loud as it was.)

Thanks for the help.


Here is a link to My Stage Layout in The Sketcher

Hi David,

Thanks for using The Sketcher. The last step (from when you save the Sketch, and when you can see it live in a message board discussion - is manual).

Here's your Sketch.


-- click image to make changes to the live version --

Quoting Shark Diver from The Sketcher

quote:

First system is lead vocal and guitar. I am using the Guitar Rig plug in.

Second system is keys, vocals and acoustic guitar.

Third (middle) system is electronic drums, lead vocal and sequenced bass.

Some sequenced/sampled percussion, brass, strings, etc. goes to all 3 system

Just flying out the door. Back to you later.

Hi Dave,

I've run the L1's as "back-line monitors" in conjunction with a seperate FOH system.

If you are using L1 model 1's, you can keep the same routing and control for your channel 1 and channel 2 inputs, and take the line-out of those channels (and add a 20-db pad) to a front-of-house mixer.

Another alternative to adding louder L1's to your sides, that you might investigate, is placing an additional L1 halfway down the room.

(I got this idea from the DJ section of this board - Thank you "Cap" )

This has worked well for us, and is a standard setup request now at a swing-dance venue where I provide the sound system.

(It is still a pain to run extra cables, and deal with an additional mixer for the mono mix for the speaker down the hall, but it does give a boost to the second half of the hall without overwhelming the front half and stage).

I'd also to credit Cap Capello in the DJ section with the idea of wireless remote L1's.

I prefer running xlr cable from the mixer (at stage), to the remote L1(s). But have also had success, using a Shure wireless guitar transmiter (set to line level, plugged into the mixer output), and receiver plugged into channel 1 of a remote L1. What's cool about that is that you can put an L1 anyplace you have a nearby power outlet, not worry about cable runs or people tripping over wires. (The trade-off is that you need to worry about the wireless gear battery life instead).

Hope this helps...

Jim Mead

A note about trade-offs and what I hope will be a great feature of the T1's.

The line-outs on the model 1 are pre-remote control. That is, they do not have the preset EQ applied, nor the remote volume or EQ controls applied.

Today, I need to use a 3rd party mixer for the mix-down to mono. This means:
1. Performer loses control over his/her FOH mx volume (although still in control of the backline monitor L1)
2. Performer loses control over his/her FOH EQ.
3. I need to pick a single preset that I think serves the bands overall need best for the remote L1s.

With the T1s, I have the ability to send the same mix (preset, EQ, and volume), as controlled by performers settings on T1(s), to FOH L1's chained together.

I'm looking forward to trying this out once the T1's ship.

If you are thinking about buying a couple more L1s (classic, model 1, or model 2), you might want to think about what a couple of T1's might do for you, either along with, or in place of, additional L1's.

Jim Mead

I have on occasion used L1's as FOH; that is, to the side and in front of the performers, rather than beside or behind the group.

On every occasion, I've never had to use additional "stage monitors" because the back-side sound from the columns has been sufficient for the performers to hear. After all, the main reason for running them as "FOH" is because it would be too loud if behind the performers anyway!

For one example with pictures, see here.

quote:

Originally posted by David Turner:


Quickly:
First system is me - guitar and vocals.
Second is our Keyboardist - she also sings and plays acoustic.
Third is our lead vocalist, electronic drums and sequenced bass.

I would only use FoH at front of house, or at some clubs that want really loud music. (yes, I've been asked to turn up, I thought we were too loud as it was.)

Food for thought. When 'they' ask you to turn up, what is the more that they want to hear?

Maybe they need more low end, or more definition for the low end, or maybe more definition for the Lead Vocal/Keyboard and sequenced Bass.

How about this?

Let's separate the Electronic Drums.


-- click image to make changes to the live version --

Overall just louder. They like the mix.
I thought about the extra system just for drums, but I'm not sure I'll always have room for that. I guess I could try to go from a 3 to 4 system rig depending on the place. Still though a FoH might really be what's needed at some gigs. One Casino quit allowing bands to use their FoH and the place is just too big for the Bose stage rigs. I've got a keyboard amp (KC500 I think), maybe I'll try the drums in there first, to see if there is any noticable difference.
If there is a good mix and you want to raise the volume of all 3/4systems, it really isn't possible easily - is it? Another reason why FoH makes sense to me.
Right now I use aux sends for each of these instruments/vocals to the Bose (except the guitar, where I split the signal from the rig itself)-to keep the FoH mix there if needed. So, no eqing to the Bose, but I don't need it.

The next T1 should be a 16 channel board with multiple sends for different L1s. A good digital board would do this now, but without the presets. Maybe Bose and Yamaha could team up to get those presets in the OV boards. Or that Digitech PA thing, you could have presets for the Bose and split the signal with presets for different types of speakers - so what comes out of the Bose comes out of the FoH. (This is why I split my guitar signal now) We always want more don't we - the first T1s aren't even shipping yet and I'm looking to the next generation!

Thanks for all the help.

quote:

Originally posted by David Turner:
Overall just louder. They like the mix. ...

well... not always. When you try it, you might find they really want more of one thing or another.

I've found if they say "it's too soft" or "I can't hear it well", then the whole mix needs increased.

However, if they say "Sounds great; I just want it louder", then they really want more bass or drums or ... something more specific than "everything". They just haven't really thought about what they want more of -- or they are missing that "feel in the body"... which is mostly bass.

quote:

...If there is a good mix and you want to raise the volume of all 3/4 systems, it really isn't possible easily - is it?...

Yes, just have everyone turn up the Master on their Remote by the same amount. As long as you're not operating your mics at the "threshold of feedback", that's the way to "turn it up".

If you *are* at the threshold of feedback, then something has to be configured differently to "turn it up" ... and that's why trying a "Front of House" (speakers in front, rather than behind) configuration is one way to deal with running at the "threshold of feedback".

Maybe there is a case for using a compressor/limiter on the bass and drums to get a punchy attack and fatter sound without increasing the overall loudness to a painful level.

Do any of the tone presets on the L1 include effects like compression?

Hi Colin,

There *is* a new effect (not a preset) in the T1 ToneMatch™ audio engine called KickGate™ and you can read about it here.

KickGate.

The nice thing is, the T1™ works with all of the L1™ Systems out there now as well as the new Model II.

edit: grammar

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