Hello conference attendees!

A little help if you would.

At the monday night jam, if you remember, Ken & Chris-at-Bose motioned for me to switch from the TrapKAT to the acoustic drum set two or three songs into the set. At the time I thought "they don't like the V-drums!?"...later realized that they probably just wanted to hear the difference. I'm hoping so anyway. But no one ever mentioned what they thought about it all, so I ask you now.

Things I'm interested in learning are:

• Your initial impression of the difference in sound of the digital drums - do they sound real?
  
• Which kit *sat* better in the mix?
  
• The *noticable* lack of subtle nuances in the digitals, as compared to real drums.
  Such as the variations of the position of stick on ride cymbal for instance, or snare rimshots.
  
• The Biggie: Any lack of *excitement* in the V-drums...are they too smooth?
  
• Are the V-drums lacking dynamics?
  (personally, I often miss the little bit of ear-biting from the snare when it gets too loud.)
  
• Finally, your personal take on the V-drums...anything pop into your head? Like or dislike?

Thanks for your help.

Hey Pete,

I was sitting with Ken & Chris when they motioned you onto the acoustic kit. I remember before they did this thinking to myself how good the digitals sounded. I also remember later in the night when I was singing that I couldn't tell which kit you were on behind me & was surprised when I turned around that you had switched from one to the other. I think I remember thinking when I turned around & watched you that the digitals sounded more synthetic, but when I turned my back to you I couldn't tell the difference. Weird how your eyes fool your ears sometimes, huh?

As far as subtle differences I think I could hear that the digitals weren't as dynamic, but you were able to control them so well that they sat in the mix just fine. I didn't notice all the details like stick position or rimshots.


I think Ken & Chris motioned you to the acoustic set because they preferred it, but I'll let them speak for themselves.

Tom

Pete, while I was not a conference attendee (to my sadness!), I have a good deal of experience in playing in bands with electronics versus acoustic, sometimes miced, often not.

The two electronic kits are the high end Roland, amped either through the Bose or something else good.

The acoustic kits are Tama, Pearl, Yamaha, Rogers and Drum Workshop. (I CAN tell the difference, and the better quality the kit, the better it sounds, of course the player matters a ton too, but that also seems to correlate to their gear.)

For me, I enjoy the acoustic kits, VERY much more. Listening to, and playing with, a good player on good drums, tuned with fresh heads - this has always been one of my favorite things, both in playing and listening to other bands, since I was a kid. Nowdays, the differences, while admittedly subtle sometimes, and very noticable and significant to me. The element of natural realness just does it for me.

Watching the guys set up their racks of electronic kits, I question whether that is more simple and fast, than a moderate size real kit. Another thing that appeals to me is when a guy sets up a minimal kit, and just TEARS IT UP, playing perfectly for the particular band. I'm a steady-over-super-flashy guy.

Thanks for letting me weigh in.

Best, Mike

I agree with you, Mike, but one of my ideas of hell is playing right next to an acoustic drummer. I am absolutely bombarded even at moderate levels & cannot hear myself play or sing. I'd rather play with no drummer than have to play right next to an acoustic set. It's as bad as playing with an electric guitar amp aiming right at my head for me.

Tom

I know what you mean Tom. I try to put one guy in between me and the drummer (too bad for that guy!), and walk over to visit the drummer sometimes when I'm not singing. Acoustic drums really do make everything louder. The other night the Beach Boys had the tall plexiglass walls around John Cowsill.

quote:

Originally posted by Drumr:

Finally, your personal take on the V-drums...anything pop into your head? Like or dislike?

Thanks for your help.

Pete,
The biggest thing I noticed was technique. Most acoustic drummers are usually a bit too loud. As you switched from one set to the other, the volume remained constant and pleasant. It definately felt good as a bass player, working with your solid beat. I did notice a few jammers ( no offense) pulled on it a bit and it felt as if we held it steady. That is one of the important things I find in playing, keeping a solid beat.
The fills and overall timbre of the TrapKat was very good, a nice balance, accented by a very good style and control of playing. I would have no issues whatsoever working with a good drummer on a TrapKat. So get out of the Northern weather and brings that set down here to Sunny Florida.
Take care.

I didn't hear a big change. I think you changed how you played but not that one was better then the other. I think the electrics have a place just like electric and acoustic guitar. Or a electric guitar in a amp or straight in the board. It has a lot to do with the player and his/her mind set and type/style of music and volume that is required. Your manly good looks will always distract others from your professionl style of playing Pete

Pete,

I thought both sets sounded great. We've been using electronic drums for several years and love them. They give us more control in our room.
I think the acoustics of the room also has a lot to do with the overall sound in the mix. Our auditorium seats about 1300 and has a pretty long reverb time. Acoustic drums go nuts in there.

Anyway, you proved that you could sound great, even on a trash can!

Hey Roy, did you get my pm?

rwj

I wasn't there, but my band uses e -drums and they sound great. I often tell my drummer that when I don't look back I'd swear there was an acoustic kit there....an acoustic kit that is always in tune and sounds like it's miced up perfectly. Myself I havn't noticed any lack of dynamics. The e drums sit rather well in a mix, they are much nicer to rehearse next to.

I've got some videos that will be going up shortly of some gigs, and frankly I am amazed at the sound of the e-drums.

Our guitarist is a glutton for punishment and has remarked that sometimes she would like to play next to an acoustic kit for the feel. Myself I don't care if I ever play next to an acoustic set again. I love the fact that you can adjust the the volume of e drums.

Hi Pete!
I'll have to say I didn't really notice that much of an overall difference between the e-drums and the acoustics. Then again, my ears are not tuned for the small details that a real drummer might pick up on. I guess if I had to pinpoint a difference between them, visually, I would prefer the acoustics. From a sound standpoint, either works for me! What I noticed more than anything was your style and finesse in playing them!

As I think I mentioned to you in Asheville, I was truly impressed with how your playing "supplemented" the rest of the band and your ability to dynamically "mix" yourself to the volume and tempo of the music being played. To me, that's the sign of a true professional! Enjoyable. Fun. Memorable. That's what I remember. If there were drums in Bluegrass music, you'd be my first pick for a drummer!

By the way, I agree with Joel, in that I feel most drummers are too loud, at least for my tastes. You were NEVER too loud.

Hi Pete,

I would not have given this subject a single thought, had you not brought it up.

I noticed that I liked the acoustics better when you were doing the drum rolls for the door prizes, but even watching you change during the jam nothing registered with me as one being better than the other.

On the other hand I was aware of the different tones coming from the various guitar players.

I would agree with the others here, you fit in the mix in an excellent way with both kits. If you were hoping for opinion to help you decide which to play, I think you choose the one that fits your mood as you are loading up.

I thought the jam was all good and I know that you and Joel were the glue that held it together. A mighty fine band could be built around guys like you two.

O..

Thanks much for the responses guys.
I surmise from this that biggest drawback to the TrapKAT is visual, not sonic.
This would reinforce what I've guessed with audiences over the last 3 yrs.

Back in the dark ages ( I think it was the 80's). When Simmons drums came out there was a club in florida that would not allow electric drums. A band that worked there mounted the electrics in the shells of an acoustic set and nobody ever said a word. People tend to listen to music with the eyes and not the ears.

quote:

People tend to listen to music with the eyes and not the ears.

Strike two for me.

quote:

originally posted by Oldghm
If you were hoping for opinion to help you decide which to play, I think you choose the one that fits your mood as you are loading up.

I took your advice O...I have an outdoor party, a "reunion" gig tomorrow afternoon with a classic country & 70's rock band I played in during the 90's. The party host and brother of the lead singer has his own really big PA, but I am taking a Model II w/Packlite & 4-B1s for my monitor. As I was loading up, I instinctively grabbed the TrapKAT and the Roland TD-12...it's just so easy.