Hi rogerwellsjr87,

Thanks for using The Sketcher!

This is just a quick note to send you a link to your Sketch in case you want to review it, edit it, or share it with others.


-- click image to make changes to the live version --

Legend:
L1® Model II
T1 ToneMatch® audio engine
Orange numbers are Systems and Inputs using those Systems.
Blue filled numbers are Channel connections to/from the T1 ToneMatch® audio engine.
Green numbers are for general notes about the Sketch and connections to non-Bose gear.

Quoting rogerwellsjr87 from The Sketcher

quote:

Using the 2 L1's dbl bass on each.
Tonematch T1 also on each one.
I use the computer to play tracks.
Mic is for vocal, you already knew that!
I plan to run stereo on the tracks, L to left, R to right
I plan to run the vocal through each L1

Any thoughts on better set up welcomed

Hi rogerwellsjr87,

Before I getting into ideas for you - please confirm: - Is this a solo act with backing tracks?

Please tell us more about your music:

• What kind(s) of music you perform?
  
• Where you do it (size, type of venue)?
  
• Who is there (audience) - how many, what are they doing while you are performing?
  
• Do you have a web site?
  
• If no web site, could you post a picture of you doing your thing??
  

Thank you.

Hi Roger Wells,

I just found your revised notes.

quote:

Originally posted by Roger Wells:
Depending on length of program or other variables I use wireless mics, or possibly corded mics
I plan to avoid using a separate board by splitting 2 of the mics into 1channel. Any thoughts?

I have posted a new set up. Solo singer now
Plan on running the tracks from the computer stereo
And the vocal into both L1's

Any thoughts?

How many microphones are you running?

Yes I use backing tracks.
Just what ever size the church is, some small
some up to 800 seats.
I do Southern Gospel music
I will post a picture from the next set up

Didn't see the question about the mic # Mostly just one

Hi Roger Wells,

You probably want to set up the L1®s at least 20 feet apart for best results.

There is a very detailed explanation about why, here:
Stereo / Mono / Distributed systems

For smaller churches or any place where you can't get enough distance between the L1®s I would probably run a single L1® (track in mono with your voice on top).

OR

If running the tracks in stereo is very important to you, then run your vocal through just one L1®. You don't lose much in volume, and what you do, you can regain by turning up your vocal channel a little bit. Read the article to which I linked above and that should explain all.

So as long as they are spaced 20' or so apart, they should be ok?
Stereo is not that important just a passing whim.
I'm not concerned about the volume, one L1 will play loud enough. I am more concerned with fullness, and coverage. Getting around pulpits, and such obstacles in a church.
On massing the B1's, how beneficial is it?
Does Bose sell a B1 cable 10' or so long?
Thanks for your input.

Hi Roger Wells,

Glad to help.

quote:

Originally posted by rogerwells:
So as long as they are spaced 20' or so apart, they should be ok?

Absolutely fine.

quote:

Stereo is not that important just a passing whim.
I'm not concerned about the volume, one L1 will play loud enough. I am more concerned with fullness, and coverage. Getting around pulpits, and such obstacles in a church.

Wider spacing will give you more side-to-side coverage. Depth (directly in front of the L1®s) will probably be very similar, (one L1® vs. two L1®s)

Sound from the L1® should refract around obstacles as long as those obstacles are not right up close to the Cylindrical Radiator®.

quote:

On massing the B1's, how beneficial is it?

This depends on how much low bass you have in the tracks.

You are not doing dance music so it may not matter. I still like to have a couple of long B1 cables just in case I end up performing on a boomy hollow stage. It's nice to have the flexibility to move them around.

quote:

Does Bose sell a B1 cable 10' or so long?
Thanks for your input.

Bose doesn't sell a longer B1 cable but these people, and they get good reviews here in the owner community.


audiopile.net



B1 Cables are near the end of that page.

Thanks for your help!

Sounds like I should come out of the one Tonematch into the other Powerstand. Making me wonder if I should have bought another one.
Thanks for the link for the B1 cable.

Hi Roger Wells,

If you are wondering if you bought one too many T1®s - I happen to think that a T1® is a great piece of gear and that if you have two Model IIs you would do well to have a couple of T1®s.

Yes, you can probably do what you have described so far with one, but add another performer or two to the show and you will be very well served by having two T1®s.

Am I addressing your concern?

Yes indeed you are. Thanks

I get from this, spacing is important.
Stereo may not serve as well as mono.
Feed one L1 from the other.
Place the B1's closer for the extra 6db.

I don't do dance music, but the tracks are dynamic. They are awsome on the L1 I use already. Excited to get the rest of my stuff Monday and try it all. I also have a low voice that may benifit from placing the B1's together.

Hi Roger Wells,

I'm heading out the door, but let me leave you with this idea:

If you run mono, then connect the T1® to the first Model II using the ToneMatch Cable. (When you look at the connector straight on - it looks like a rectangle inside a round shell).

Connect the same T1® to the second Model II using an ordinary ¼ inch jack cable (tip-ring-sleeve cable is preferable but a guitar cable will do). This will give roughly identical outputs from your two Model IIs, and the will both be controlled by the T1®.

When you make this connection to the second Model II Power Stand you will be running into the analog input. Set the trim at about "3" and adjust until it seems about equal to the output of the other Model II.

Try connecting your computer directly to the T1® using a USB cable.

Notes here:

Gotta run.

I'll be around tomorrow to give this some more thought.

Oh and...

quote:

Originally posted by rogerwells:
Yes indeed you are. Thanks

I get from this, spacing is important.
Stereo may not serve as well as mono.

Personal preference when it comes to your backing tracks. For your vocal - I can't see any particular reason to run stereo.

quote:

Feed one L1 from the other.

see my notes in the post above

quote:

Place the B1's closer for the extra 6db.

It's not exactly that scientific. They have to be touching (or very nearly so) for it to make a big difference. It's not that they are touching but the proximity of the drivers to each other that matters.

See: I Need More Bass for details.

quote:

I don't do dance music, but the tracks are dynamic. They are awsome on the L1 I use already.

I think you would notice with pipe organ, the 1812 Overture, bass guitar, kick drum. But don't let me spoil your fun. Definitely try the bundle of bass (all the B1s together) and see how you like it.

quote:

Excited to get the rest of my stuff Monday and try it all. I also have a low voice that may benifit from placing the B1's together.

Now I'm out of here.

Just wanted to thank you for some good information on the L1. You told me about the USB pc to T1 a couple years ago. But I did not know I could send that to channel 4/5. Made that adjustment after following the link you sent. That leaves me a lot of room to run the L1 with more power and still keep the volume bearable, I guess you call that more headroom. I also ordered the 10' cables for the B1s. They should ship out today. Thanks again for your help. I do try to learn from these message boards, I only act like I know it all. Thanks again.

And after you try all that, also try it once with all the backing tracks in one L1 and your vocals in the other. I think you will love the way your vocals sound when the L1 is dedicated just to you.

quote:

Originally posted by ST:

There is a very detailed explanation about why, here:
Stereo / Mono / Distributed systems

ST - I read that article and I have a new question. Here is a quote from the article:

quote:

Because the I and II are essentially 14' line arrays (7' speaker with a 7' mirror image source created by the floor reflection) they project sound at much less loss with distance than a conventional speaker.

So that got me thinking - how does it use the floor? What happens if I put the L1 up on a stand? Or right at the front edge of a high stage?

Hi OneManBand

quote:

Originally posted by OneManBand:
And after you try all that, also try it once with all the backing tracks in one L1 and your vocals in the other. I think you will love the way your vocals sound when the L1 is dedicated just to you.

Hear Hear!

quote:

quote:

Originally posted by ST:

There is a very detailed explanation about why, here:
Stereo / Mono / Distributed systems

ST - I read that article and I have a new question. Here is a quote from the article:

quote:

Because the I and II are essentially 14' line arrays (7' speaker with a 7' mirror image source created by the floor reflection) they project sound at much less loss with distance than a conventional speaker.

So that got me thinking - how does it use the floor? What happens if I put the L1 up on a stand? Or right at the front edge of a high stage?

I had a similar thought and asked the engineers-at-Bose. It turned into a really interesting discussion.

Does elevating the L1® change the line array performance

quote:

Originally posted by ST:

I had a similar thought and asked the engineers-at-Bose. It turned into a really interesting discussion.

Does elevating the L1® change the line array performance

I think I have short circuited my brains. Wow. I wonder if we should gather a bunch of topics and make them "must read" for all newbies to the Bose way of life. What I really should do is go back to that discussion I saw a while back on what type of stands to buy for raise the L1, and provide the link to that topic you just sent me too. I often play to hundreds of people massed on crowded dance floors right in front of me, so I bought some stands to lift the L1s about 2 feet. That became my "hammer" and until now I always lifted them, however, going forward, I will not do that if there is a large, flat, hard surface for at least 7 feet right in front of the L1s.

rogerwells - I am sorry to have hijacked your topic.

Well I went the other day and set up my two L1 model 2's with 2B1's on each. At first I used both T1's Vocal split to send to each one. And the left of the track to the left and right to the right one. After adjusting every thing equally and singing for a while, I decided it was good but not great. So I hooked the computer to the T1 via USB then the vocal into that T1 master out to the other L1 analog input. Adjusted the volume to make them the same, and then it was what I was expecting. The sound was making it all the way to the back of a room 100' wide by 130' long. The sound was full and crisp very nice. I now have the B1 cables to move the B1's together and leave the L1's 20' or so apart. Any thing I should try next. I did notice a "hole" in the sound in the middle of the room 20' out from the L1's, I figured if using a little different angle on the set up, or tell nobody to sit in the middle. Sounds awesome on stage where I sing from, Love it.

Hi Roger,

Do you still have the hole in the sound if you do NOT connect the vocal to both Model II's?

Hello there, I set back up and put the B1s in the middle, used the 10' cables from Audiopile from B1 to L1. Had them stacked 4 high, 1 & 3 fed from right, and 2 & 4 fed from left. Did not notice the increased bass effect. Should I have stacked 2 high, or used 1 & 2 together and then 3 & 4 together? I have it set up in the house now with the B1s 6' away, using the new B1 cable, I think this lowers the bass response, what say you? Set up this time left no holes in the sound. Gonna try to set the L1s 8' or so from edge of stage next time. I need to figure this out before the end of Feb. I have a big singing planned. So any help would be great. Thanks a bunch