(diagram at http://toonz.ca/sketcher/showBand.aspx?SketchID=557)

One player - 2 instruments plus vocal?

I'm looking for additional ideas for my wife's setup.

She sings (vocal SM58 in chnl 1),

plays fiddle (clip on microphone - with XLR connector and phantom power in chnl 2)

and she plays the mandolin (1/4 under saddle pickup).

She's happy with the same preset for the fiddle and mandolin, (just changes the tone controls a little),
but would like to avoid changing plugs while performing.

Mandolin and fiddle are not in use in the same song, but she does change instruments between songs.

We have used a small mixer put prefer tone and volume closer to the instrument / player. (and liked the
tone better going direct to the PAS).

One thought is to pick up a GigPro for the mandolin - giving an additional tone and remote volume to chnl 3
by using the GigPro into it.

A different idea -- does anyone know if there is a A/B switch that can do something with the XLR and phantom
needs of the fiddle mike? It would be great if we could have a common A/B'd feed into a tuner and then into
PAS chnl 2.

Thanks,
Jim Mead

Hi Jim (jmead),

Thanks for using The Sketcher!

Sorry, can't help with suggestions for

quote:

does anyone know if there is a A/B switch that can do something with the XLR and phantom
needs of the fiddle mike? It would be great if we could have a common A/B'd feed into a tuner and then into PAS chnl 2.

Maybe someone else will chime in.
Here's your sketch.

-- click image to make changes to the live version --

Codes:
Small numbers are Channels on the Systems.

Quoting jmead from The Sketcher

quote:

One player - 2 instruments plus vocal?

I'm looking for additional ideas for my wife's setup.
She sings (vocal SM58 in chnl 1),
plays fiddle (clip on microphone - with XLR connector and phantom power in chnl 2)
and she plays the mandolin (1/4 under saddle pickup).

She's happy with the same preset for the fiddle and mandolin, (just changes the tone controls a little),
but would like to avoid changing plugs while performing.

Mandolin and fiddle are not in use in the same song, but she does change instruments between songs.

We have used a small mixer put prefer tone and volume closer to the instrument / player. (and liked the
tone better going direct to the PAS).

One thought is to pick up a GigPro for the mandolin - giving an additional tone and remote volume to chnl 3
by using the GigPro into it.

A different idea -- does anyone know if there is a A/B switch that can do something with the XLR and phantom
needs of the fiddle mike? It would be great if we could have a common A/B'd feed into a tuner and then into
PAS chnl 2.

Thanks,
Jim Mead

See Jim's question in the original discussion

Hi Jim,

I just noticed that Ken had some ideas for you that he posted in the Sketcher thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken-at-Bose:
Hi jmead,

I did some work on your wife's system.

Here's a link to your Sketch in case you want to review it, edit it, or share it with others.


-- click image to make changes to the live version --

Codes:
Orange numbers are Systems and Inputs using those Systems.
Small numbers are Channels on the Systems.
Green numbers are for general notes about the Sketch and connections to non-Bose gear.

Quoting jmead from The Sketcher

quote:

One player - 2 instruments plus vocal?

I'm looking for additional ideas for my wife's setup.
She sings (vocal SM58 in chnl 1),
plays fiddle (clip on microphone - with XLR connector and phantom power in chnl 2)
and she plays the mandolin (1/4 under saddle pickup).

She's happy with the same preset for the fiddle and mandolin, (just changes the tone controls a little),
but would like to avoid changing plugs while performing.

Mandolin and fiddle are not in use in the same song, but she does change instruments between songs.

We have used a small mixer put prefer tone and volume closer to the instrument / player. (and liked the
tone better going direct to the PAS).

One thought is to pick up a GigPro for the mandolin - giving an additional tone and remote volume to chnl 3
by using the GigPro into it.

A different idea -- does anyone know if there is a A/B switch that can do something with the XLR and phantom
needs of the fiddle mike? It would be great if we could have a common A/B'd feed into a tuner and then into
PAS chnl 2.

Thanks,
Jim Mead

From Ken:

Sorry, I don't have a clip on to show you so I just used this one.

I looked at the GigPro and think it could be perfect. It gives you two tone controls and a low cut. It seems perfect, and I like Baggs products in general.

I have not investigated how to get the mandy and the fiddle hooked up to the same tuner. Perhaps you can make a proposal given my recommendation of the GigPro?

Let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Ken

Thanks Ken and ST,

I picked up the GigPro last night and we tried it.

It does exactly what we need.

(The mandolin was too sharp -- too muck pick click without the extra tone control).

She backed off some treble, went straight into chnl 3, sounded great. And she can tweak her own sound all she likes from where she is playing for mandolin, fiddle, and voice.

The Gigpro clips nicely on the lip of a music stand.

--- Gigpro with acoustic guitar and M1 ---

Since we have a gigpro now, I also tried it in the signal chain from my acoustic guitar. (Galleger Doc Watson guitar... Baggs M1 active pickup). The Gigpro sounded good between the M1 and chnl 3 of my PAS, but not as good to my ears as going straight from the M1 pickup to the Bose system chnl 3. A little weird - when I first added the Gigpro, I said "Wow, I like this", then I went back to going straight in for comparison, and found that I like this sound even better. For me, the guitar is more ballanced and natural without any more processing.

We will be a 2-PAS, 1 M1, 1 gigpro family.

The idea of an A/B switch for XLR can wait.


Jim M

Hi Jim,

I'm just closing the loop with you here. Are you all set with a two-speaker setup or do you need a sketch for that?

Ken

Thanks for checking Ken,

I'm using the BOSE systems as much as we can -- Saturday we played 3 gigs, the first two were straight acoustic - no amps (small block party, and small birthday part dance in a backyard). For the third gig we used both L1s for the band (guitar and fiddle in one, fiddle, mandolin, and flute in the second), plus a set of EON 10's for the caller.

I think this is the first time the fiddler that shared my system heard himself and the whole band (He plays LOUD and usually only hears himself). By the second set I really liked the total sound. (We all heard each other, typical tempo problems were reduced, typical "off-notes" were reduced, Dancers had a good time.).

Our largest problem is still volume management (sounding too loud to ourselves on stage, but being "correct" volume according to our dance caller who is on the dance floor).

Next time, we will send my wife out to the floor with a wireless mandolin to get a second oppinion.

I don't want to give up hearing us all, so we if really need all that volume on the floor, I think we will need to invest in some ear plugs. (Reminder - we are using the BOSE system to overcome problems we have had playing WITHOUT MONITORS (Never had success with monitors the few times we tried). As a result we can now hear ourselves, but we also have more stage volume than when unmonitored, and more stage volume than our two ladies want (fiddle/mandolin and flute).

We had another recent gig where I should have brought along the PAS systems. - It was a 2-band gig with seperately contracted sound and sound man. I'm told that we sounded good on the floor. I couldn't hear the lead fiddle. I couldn't hear my wife on fiddle nor on mandolin. I did hear myself on guitar and the bass player next to me.
My wife and the lead fiddler also said that they only heard guitar on stage. PAS would have been wonderful - maybe another time..

http://www.adirondacktrust.com/canfieldtours.htm (Casino ballroom picture in upper right -- think LOTS OF LOUD AND DELAYED ECHOOOOOOO). Sound man had his hands full. One floor wedge was just scratchy and distorted - we had him just turn it off.


Original volume problems thread is here:

http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6806048934/m/7421068332

(We've taken the advice offered for raising the PAS in crowded rooms, haven't had the occasion yet to use the crates under the systems, but I'm prepared now, should the right situation arise.)

And a related conversation about using a mixer and getting our caller out of the L1's is here:

http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6806048934/m/7001024042

Note: in that conversation, our occasional bass player did not find a sound he liked, we have since played an outdoor gig where he sounded great (dual B1), and loved his sound. Only problem is that required giving up my guitar channel! (too many instruments, not enough channel 1's and 2's)...


A few samples recorded from the PAS line-outs are here: (About a minute each - mp3 files, a different birthday, no flute, different lead fiddle - same L1s, same guitar, same wife - a birthday gig we really enjoyed. :

Red Haired Boy Clip

Tom Bigbee Waltz Clip

Sorry about the length of this response, but I know you care about your product and about the bands using them.

Thanks again for your interest. This is a wonderful product and a great support forum.

Jim M
(Edited to correct music sample links)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jim Mead,

Hi Jim,

Thanks for replying with this very informative post.

In terms of volumen management, if you can get a few more feet of distance between you and the Cylindrical Radiator systems, you might get a little closer to the balance between stage and audience that you want. I think of earplugs as a last resort. We should be able to get you comfortable and the folks in the audience too.

Ken

Update - We changed Sue's solution.

The problem's when gigging with the GigPro:
. Too much "pick" noise in chnl 3 from the mandolin, and we couldn't figure out how to get rid of it using the GigPro's Bass and Treble controls.
. Habits - reaching for PAS remote to make adjustments to the mandolin, when there's no control there (She should have reached for the GigPro).

Today's solution:
. we replaced the XLR clip-on for her fiddle with a clip-on with a 1/4" connector.
. Mandolin and fiddle both go to an A/B box
. A/B box output goes into Boss TU-2 tuner
. Tuner goes to channel 2 of her PAS stick.
. She likes the sound of preset 77 for both her fiddle and the mandolin, and can deal with changing tone settings on the remote when switching instruments.
. She likes the TU-2 tuner - bright, easy to see, and mutes output while tuning. It's nice that she can use the one tuner for both instruments.

Combining the fiddle and mandolin into one channel gives her the mid-range control and sound that she wants, and still keeps her channel 1 available for vocals and/or our guest flutist.

Interesting side observation: She needs to use the A/B switch "single side at a time" setting. When we tried clicking the "Both" button, the mandolin (pasive under-bridge pickup), lost significant volume. When switching to one instrument at a time, both have plenty of volume.

(edit -- spelling correction)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jim Mead,