We currently use 2-L1,B1 systems, placed one stage left and one stage right. The stage left system takes two vocal Beta SM58's using that EQ in channel one coming from a sub mix (mixer). Channel two take stage left takes a SM57 using that EQ for sax/clarinet. Channel 3 takes Crumar keyboard left hand (bass line) and channel four takes Crumar keyboard right hand. Stage right system takes two vocal SM58's using that EQ in channel one coming from a sub mix (mixer). Channel two takes the accordian (right hand reeds) EQ preset 71. Channel three takes a Ketron Organ generator attached to the accordian. Personnel location is this: From stage left to stage right- 1)Sax clarinet vocal standing 2)Keyboard-bass right hand vocal sitting 3)Accordian organ generator vocal 4)drummer vocal only mike off looking between 2 & 3. That's the setup I hope it helps. Now the problem: Accordian feedback. Distance from the system is ok 5 feet minimum. It seems the base notes from the keyboard are being reamplified by the accordian and causing I would say low frequency feedback. Iv'e tried to adjust the EQ settings on the remote but it doesn't seem to help. This is becoming quite frustrating. I'm sure you have the answers. I met Kyle and Cliff in Michigan in the fall.
Try preset # 71 for the accordian.
As I already mentioned we have been using preset #71 for the accordian. I have also tried to adjust the remote EQ's that channel also.
Hi Mr Grose
Yeah, I remember meeting you at the Brothers Groove gigs in Detroit, at Edison's. What fun. A bunch of other players were there to check out the system also.
As I remember, you have a LIMEX system in your instrument. This has a bunch of microphones in it and is probably the main problem. Stage sound gets into the microphones thru the instrument's grilles and reamplifies. We have tried this here and got feedback also at very loud levels. Here are some suggestions to try:
1. Play harder and back off on the electronic gain. I know, I play accordion in our band here (The Linemen): great for the upper body but tiring to do all night.
2. Block the grilles on the instrument, from the inside so it doesn't change the apperaance. To see if it works, you could tape over the grilles. This will reduce the feedback-loop gain directly. If feedback is in the bass, this might not help. If it is really in the lower midrange or uppper bass (150-400 Hz), this might help. This will also change the tone of the instrument.
3. Try a different preset. Do you like the basic tone you get with #71? Where is the feedback, at what frequency? In the deep bass? Or in the "chesty" region (low mid). Try preset 34 or even 14 and raise the treble tone control to taste.
4. (last resort here) Patch a 1/3 octave in and notch out the offending range. Unless you have a lot of experience with these things, you can get into more trouble than you might want.
Do you consider your band "loud"?
Let's get this sorted out. You should be loving all this.
Hi I hit return too early on a previous message
I'm about to try the PS1 at a Long and McQuaid in town (Victoria BC). I have a Beltuna with Musitech sennheiser type mics on both treble and bass, and a King Major module running into a Solton Ketron XD-3 midi module.
The Ketron has too much built in reverb as it is (I don't know how to flatten it). So my question(s) are: What eq do I set for the accordion (w/o midi); what eq for the midi module; and what for both?
At the moment I'm using a JBl EOL system and I'm not impressed..
|Research & Development|
All the gear you mention is a total mystery to me, re: how it sounds on your instrument. I wish you could just bring your instrument over here and let me dial it in for you in our theater. But, if you love the instrument's sound, you are mostly there. From there, it's just a matter of getting the amplified sound to match it.
You can do two things:
1. Have a friend play your instrument and cycle through the presets until you find what you like, turning the EQ knobs on the remote too. The LIMEX preset I did is now preset #55 on the v.2 system, which is what you will be trying out. The LIMEX was very midrangy ("nasal"), so a very broad midrange suckout made it sound a lot better, and didn't feed back as much. The player was very happy with it. Not everyone can do this, as you have to be able to translate what you hear and don't like into what you want to hear out of the instrument. This is the realm of the "sound guy" and not as a pure musician. The musician should be able to pick up the instrument, love the sound and play. We try to do this with popular instruments and microphones, but your setup doesn't come along every day, so it's a harder problem.
I don't know what you're doing with the MIDI module. Is that just for reverb, or for other sounds. If you are playing other sounds out of the MIDI module, run these into either flat inputs 3 and 4 or into channels 1 and 2 with the "00" flat preset.
2. Make a digital mono recording of the output of your instrument and send it to me. You can send me a private message and I'll reply with where to send it, etc. This should be a recording of the signal you intend to send to our system, reverb and effects off. I'll find a preset that's close to what you need for the tone I think you will like. This might include recommended EQ settings on the remote.
For our shows, I've been simply using my vocal mic for my accordian, put the grill up on it and play. It really sounds great and I have plenty of gain in a band that has a strong output. I only play right hand though, not the buttons, meaning I'm not a true authentic accordian player. Just a "keyboard player". I haven't figured this out yet and it looks impossible to me right now. Another story...This message has been edited. Last edited by: Col. Cliff-at-Bose,
Wow, that's fast... Okay, I'll print out what you sent and bring it with me when I try out the system... Won't be for a couple of weeks cuz I'm out of town a lot gigging.
My Beltuna Leader V is a top of the line hand made Piano Accordion with 5 reeds on the treble and 5 on the bass. It also has tone chambers.
as I said, I have built in sennheisers (with a stereo out plug) and I don't want to use a mic.
The midi controller (King major) goes a midi module that I sometimes use when I want to have drums, saxophones, flutes and etc.. It is another top of the line piece of equipment that allows me to play with an "invisible" band when I need to. Mostly I play solo acoustic (Argentine Tango) but I like the midi module for back up when I play Swing Musette..
|Research & Development|
Wow. I love that kind of music. We listen to the Yo Yo Ma CD of Argentine tango all the time.
The output of the midi controller can go right into either CH1 or CH2 on preset 00 (flat).
Let us know how your audition with the Cylindrical Radiator(r) speaker goes.
Sounds like you have this covered, but we always recommend that you call the store in advance so they are sure (or nearly sure) to have the gear there and set up. Make sure they have the B1 bass module.
Is Victoria home? Do you ever play in Boston?
Hi Ken... Yes Victoria is Home... Music is the second job.....but it's really competing with the main one!!!!! Love Boston, never played there.
BTW: when I spoke with the guys at Long and Mc they said I wouldn't need a B1 for an accordion.
At any rate, I'm going to go in with some friends and try it ALL ways and get some good professional feedback.. But I think I'll probably wind up getting the unit anyhoo because the word out on the street is WOW
CD (Gig name is Dr. D), Tango ensemble is Tango Abrazo
You'll probably want the Bass module for the low end for the midi module.
--- across the strait ---
|Research & Development|
My advice (stong) is to try the accordion with and without the B1 bass module. Many accordions have pretty low tones (what's the lowest note relative to a piano?).
And ST is definitely on the money re the midi module and B1.
One of the nice things about the Cylindrical Radiator(r) speaker is that it will automatically sense if you have none, one or two B1s plugged in and adjust its internal circuitry to maintain as consistent tone as possible (easy when going from one to two B1s but harder when going from one to none.) In any case, this features allows you to determine if the B1 is for you almost effortlessly.
Let us know how you get on, okay?
Just thought I'd pipe up on this one, although a bit late in the game, so to speak. I also am an accordion player with almost identical setups. I have two accordions, one a Beltuna, the other an Alessandrini, both with midi and Sennheiser mics. I also use the XD-3 module as well. What I've found works best is putting the Bose behind me, off to the left. I don't use any volume on the left side of the accordion, so that may be the biggest difference. We play all sorts of venues with varying amounts of volume. I've not had really any problems other than an occasional adjustment of the EQ on channel 2 where the accordion is plugged in. Let me know if you have any more problems, but I'd say that position of the stick is probably the culprit.
I just noticed this post. For anyone using the Limex system, you will experience feedback with the Limex reverb/echo effect on. I've been using a mini mixer with effects with good success and before that a NanoVerb and Digitech processor before that for reverb and not using the Limex system reverb. I know when I forget to turn the Limex reverb off - I get the feedback.
I am still saving up for the L1 model double bass package.
However, I play in a fairly loud Alternative/Rock band with my Accordion,
Both left hand and right are mic'd.
I have always had Accordion feedback issues in the low to mid low frequency ranges.
I wanted a full rich sound, and didn't want it to sound "nasaly".
I am currently using 3 Dynamic (not condensor) Sennheiser e608 microphones. They work
fantastically....very loud before feedback, punchy, full, and clear.
One is "Velcroed" by the left hand lower sound hole, and the other two are evenly spaced
accross the right hand keyboard, also held on by "Velcro".
This is all with a traditional sound system. I can't wait to see what it will sound
with the PAS.
Just to add: Last night I was trying out my new T1 audio engine and having a great time with my guitars, when my husband came in with his Weltmeister accordion. It was a great opportunity to point my Beta 58 vocal (usually) mic at it and try the "Special" Accordion preset. Sounded terrific! Really big and even across the spectrum. Much different that the vocal preset for the mic itself.
My bandmate plays piano accordion and this would work great for her. She mainly plays melody to give me room for chords, so one mic suffices. I'd guess two mics would be twice as nice for two- handed players.
Anyway, thought I'd share. I did use a touch of zEQ and light compression. The T1 is great and intuitive to use.
Celtic Folk Noir
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