Hi
Can anybody tells me if its possible to use this setup.

Two L1's modell II with 2 sub's each and one tonematch controlling both sides ( dual Mono )

I do have a paclite if it's necessary.
My setup right now is.

One L1 model II 4 sub's with packlite, and one Tonematch 1.

But some times I want to use two L1's..

Hi Korg PA1,

Yes, you can do this. Note: It is recommended that you have the two Model II Power Stands at least twenty feet apart if you run dual mono.

Connections

You set up the first Model II as you normally do using the ToneMatch® Cable (supplied with the T1®).

You run a ¼ inch jack cable from the the T1® Master output (¼ inch jack) to the second Model II Power Stand Analog Input. Set the input trim to 3 or 4.

If your cable to the second Model II Power Stand is greater than twenty feet, you should probably use a balanced connection. That is: one with Tip-Ring-Sleeve connections at both ends. Something like this.

Balanced (preferred)


An unbalanced connection like this will also work
Unbalanced



You will now be running dual mono. It is recommended that you have the two Model II Power Stands at least twenty feet apart if you run dual mono.

Can you tell us more about when you will be needed to use two L1®s?

Thanks

Dear ST,

Can you give the reasons for the two L1s (in Mono mode) being 20 feet apart at the minimum? Is it the cause of feedback issue?

Khucdu

Hi Khucdu,

Great question.

Just to be clear - we are NOT talking about stereo.

If you have two L1®s within 20 feet of each other and they are running the same signal...

• This actually conveys very little benefit.
  
  The sound drops off so slowly with the L1®s (especially the Model I and Model II) at most, you might get 3 dB SPL increase in volume. Unless you are already running the L1®s full out, you can probably get that same increase by turning up the Master Volume on a single L1®.
  
  The sound dispersion of the L1®s is so wide (already) putting two L1®s in close proximity doesn't make the side-to-side coverage much better. With loudspeakers with comparatively narrow horizontal dispersion it was often a necessity to have at least two to provide adequate coverage from side-to-side.
  
  
• Yes, having multiple loudspeakers with the same source, especially a microphone, increases the likelihood of feedback.
  
  It is easier to position a directional microphone to avoid a single loudspeaker than a pair of them, especially when you take into account reflections.
  
  
• You can introduce Multiple Source Interference
  
  If you are suffering from some or all of these, you could be experiencing Multiple Source Interference
  
  1. Hot and cold spots in the audience area
  2. Tonal coloration
  3. Poor speech intelligibility
  4. Lack of music clarity
  5. Poor gain-before-feedback
  6. Poor imaging
  

For more reading on this check out
Dual Mono


Does that help?

Hi
Thanks for the answer.
I could maybe use two L1's when I will play in a big hall with high to the ceiling and about let's say 3000 square meters, and the audince should hear the music so they could dance to it, ( I'm playing to birthday, weddings and so on with my Keyboard and singing to it , and always only me)

Right now I'm using
One L1 and four B1's , one Packlite and one Tonematch.

And I don't think it's quite enough.

I was also thinking about maybe make a setup in stereo with:
Two L1 and four B1's ,and then a common mixer like Edirol M-10DX

Will that make it bette for me ?

And I maybe never get used to hear the sound from only one side, when I'm out there playing, so that also could be a reason ( I do have tried to make a setup where the L'1's stand right behind me, but i didn't work for me )

Hi Korg PA1,

Okay, I think I've got a better handle on what you are doing. Thank you for the information.

quote:

Originally posted by Korg PA1:
Hi
Thanks for the answer.
I could maybe use two L1's when I will play in a big hall with high to the ceiling and about let's say 3000 square meters, and the audience should hear the music so they could dance to it, ( I'm playing to birthday, weddings and so on with my Keyboard and singing to it , and always only me)

Big spaces! Just trying to get my head around this.

Are we talking about 55 meters x 55 meters?
I relate better to feet and see that as 180 feet x 180 feet or about
32,292 square feet.

Is that right? Are you playing in spaces this large?

quote:

Right now I'm using
One L1 and four B1's , one Packlite and one Tonematch.

And I don't think it's quite enough.

I was also thinking about maybe make a setup in stereo with:
Two L1 and four B1's ,and then a common mixer like Edirol M-10DX

Will that make it better for me ?

And I maybe never get used to hear the sound from only one side, when I'm out there playing, so that also could be a reason ( I do have tried to make a setup where the L'1's stand right behind me, but i didn't work for me )

We've got a lot of pieces in the question.

Stereo or mono, or dual-mono, and the size of the venue, and I'm wondering about your input sources.

Vocals - sounds like it.
Keyboard - something in the Korg Pa Series — Which one?

Are you running anything else into your T1®.

Just trying to get the big picture with all the pieces.

Thanks.

quote:

Is that right? Are you playing in spaces this large?

Okay I will try in feet
140 Feet x 70 Feet as maximum

quote:

Stereo or mono, or dual-mono, and the size of the venue, and I'm wondering about your input sources.

I think we should talk about Stereo, I don't think Dual mono will be any good for me.

quote:

Vocals - sounds like it.
Keyboard - something in the Korg Pa Series — Which one?

Are you running anything else into your T1®.

I play the Korg PA2 Xpro Keyboard, and nothing else....

Please see my webspace and the pictures ( They are taken when I played the Dynacord P3 PA ) www.kurtjepsen.dk

Hi Korg PA1,

Thank you for helping me to understand about the size (in feet).

Thanks too, for the details on your Pa2XPRO Professional Arranger.

I had fun listening to your audio tracks on your web site. It was nice to get to know you a little better.

Some questions for you.

Microphone
What microphone do you use?
Do you use the microphone input on your Pa2XPRO and
Do you use any of the Voice Processor technology in the Pa2XPRO

--- or do you use the T1® input.

Effects & Presets
Are you using any effects in the T1®?

What Presets are you using on the T1®?


I am asking so that I can think about how you could connect your Pa2XPRO to a second L1® Model II.

Thank you.

quote:

What microphone do you use?
Do you use the microphone input on your Pa2XPRO and
Do you use any of the Voice Processor technology in the Pa2XPRO

--- or do you use the T1® input.

I use the mic. Neumann KMS105
I do plug the mic into the tonematch and not to the Keyboard, I don't think it sounds very good in my ears when its in the keyboard

quote:

Are you using any effects in the T1®?

What Presets are you using on the T1®?

Yes I'm using a little reverb and Hall from the T1 for my singing, but not to anything else.


I'm using the Prset for Neumann and for my keyboard just Flat,EQ.

I don't think low volume music preset is good for me..

Hi Korg PA1,

Thank you for this information. That is very helpful.

Neumann KMS 105: This is what I use as well. A really nice microphone.

Let me summarize what we know.

Venue: Up to 140 x 70 feet maximum
Stereo or Mono: Stereo
Vocal microphone: Neumann KMS 105 (a little reverb and Hall)
Keyboard: Korg Pa2XPRO (no effects of EQ)
Website: http://www.kurtjepsen.dk

Now to your original question:

quote:

Originally posted by Korg PA1:
Hi
Can anybody tells me if its possible to use this setup.

Two L1's modell II with 2 sub's each and one tonematch controlling both sides ( dual Mono )

I do have a paclite if it's necessary.
My setup right now is.

One L1 model II 4 sub's with packlite, and one Tonematch 1.

But some times I want to use two L1's..

I will try to address all our points below (some repeated from earlier posts)

Packlite and 2 x B1s: I will not discuss these below, but you can add it to one of the L1®s later if you want.

Dual Mono Setup
You can certainly run two L1® Model IIs in a dual mono setup.

Connections
You set up the first Model II as you normally do using the ToneMatch® Cable (supplied with the T1®).

You run a ¼ inch jack cable from the the T1® Master output (¼ inch jack) to the second Model II Power Stand Analog Input. Set the input trim to 3 or 4.

If your cable to the second Model II Power Stand is greater than twenty feet, you should probably use a balanced connection. That is: one with Tip-Ring-Sleeve connections at both ends. Something like this.

Balanced (preferred)


An unbalanced connection like this will also work
Unbalanced


You will now be running dual mono. It is recommended that you have the two Model II Power Stands at least twenty feet apart if you run dual mono.

Stereo
This is a little more difficult because the T1® is not a stereo device. It is possible to split the output to two busses (Master and Aux) but the Aux output does not include reverb.

Microphone: Your microphone is a mono source so no matter what we do, the output through the T1® will be mono. We can make the connections as described for dual mono (above) and send the microphone to both L1®s but doing this we will also be dual mono for the keyboard.

If you want to run stereo from the keyboard (I understand why you do) then you could connect your keyboard outputs (left and right) directly to the Model II Power Stands (¼ inch jack). This should sound great.


Run the microphone to the T1® using the Neumann KMS 105 Preset and any EQ and Effects you want. Then take the T1® output and run that into the keyboard. It looks like you could use the keyboard line input for this. You don't need to add any processing, the T1® is doing all that. Within the keyboard, send (pan) the T1® signal to both left and right sides of the stereo output. You can try this now to see how it sounds.

Please try connecting the microphone → T1® → keyboard (Left/Mono output) → Model II Power Stand (¼ inch jack)
If that sounds okay, then adding a second Model II connected to the keyboard Right output should work well.

Your thoughts?

Hi again

Many thanks for the great answers..

I will try thinghs out when I get the time ..

THANKS i was Very Usefull