Yeah, ok; so we solved some big ones with the L1, including putting the music back in the hands of its righful practitioners (you and me, baby). But time marches on and I'm sure there are other Big Ones to solve, like not making enough money (working on it).

What do YOU think are the big problems to solve for our tribe? Can these problems be solved by technology, like by something incorporated into some future Bose product? And how about all that technology? I see it annoying a lot of people as they try to get stuff done on their computers and don't remember their passwords, etc. Is technology actually getting in the way these days, or is it us getting in the way of technology (revolt of the machines)? Howcome the track I just recorded is almost a quarter note out of sync with my previously-perfectly-synchronized multitrack production, and "nothing changed" otherwise? What about problems that can't be solved with science and engineering? Like, learing how to play together and make real music. YOu all know that if you don't have a good tune, you can play all you want but you won't have a gig. How about being in touch with your basic humanity. Are text-message relationships soulful and deep? Aieee, it goes on and on, doesn't it?

So anyway, here's an invitation to tell us what you think are the existing, big, profound, unsolved problems in a musician's life, and yours in particular. I'm talking about The Big Ones here. Anyone? (We might be able to do something about it, so don't be shy.)

Hi Col. Cliff!

Here's one for ya...

Eliminate “microphone feedback" in an amplified system without affecting tone, volume, quality of sound, etc. I don’t mean “reduce the chance” of feedback. I mean, really eliminate it. Reverse the law of physics sort of change. Make it a thing of the past. Radically change things to the point where the term "feedback" is eliminated from a musician's vocabulary.

By the way, I don't want to twist knobs or push buttons to get it to work. It should just be automatic. A no brainer, in other words....

I’ll be waitin’ for the day….

Oh yes indeed, LodgeBrotherNell, that is truly a Big One.

I'll be there are more too. I can hear those keys tapping...

regard or the lack thereof

Whether it is expressed in compliments, courtesy, compensation or something else - are we regarded as well as musicians in the past? As well as we should be?

Are we, contemporary performers schooled by life in the last 40 years of amplified music; are we condemned to be held in low regard because our self-esteem is so low that we ask for nothing better?

• Do we play on tiny stages that compete with paying seats?
  
• Do we play in makeshift circumstances, the afterthought of the main event (selling drinks)?
  
• Do we compete with recorded versions of our less than live selves?
  
• Are we relegated to the worst spot in the room because no thought of live music was part of the design?
  
• Are we expected to be the first to arrive and the last to leave so we have the least impact on other aspects of the show?
  
• Do we get served last if ever? At one establishment I was told quite bluntly, "Musicians get served last."
  

The final point may be indicative of where we stand in the pecking order of society. That is the pecking order for compliments, courtesy, compensation, — regard.

Here is a definition for the Merriam Webster Online Dictionary: (emphasis mine]

quote:

1 re·gard
Pronunciation:
\ri-ˈgärd\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from regarder
Date: 14th century

1 archaic : appearance
2 a: attention, consideration <due regard should be given to all facets of the question>
b: a protective interest : care <has no regard for her health>
3: look, gaze
4 a: the worth or estimation in which something or someone is held <a man of small regard>
b: (1): a feeling of respect and affection : esteem <she soon won the regard of her colleagues> (2)plural : friendly greetings implying such feeling <give him my regards>
5: a basis of action or opinion : motive
6: an aspect to be taken into consideration : respect <is a small school, and is fortunate in this regard>
7: obsolete : intention
— in regard to
: with respect to : concerning
— with regard to
: in regard to

Manifestations of lack of regard:

• Tiny, makeshift stages.
  
• House systems that, if they exist at all - are likely the unkind result of technology that is decades old.
  
• Not knowing how we sound, our perceptions of our performances must be shaped by our audiences, and we know that these audiences, no matter how kind may well be lying. Why? Because they could not hear.
  
• Having no basis to understand our worth in society, we accept the lowest estimation.
  

In a world of changing values, is there a future for live music when we compete with recorded selves for the eroding remnants of society's regard?

So what's the problem?

We do not know our value in contemporary society. We do not know how are regarded, but suffer for lack of adequate regard. We do not know how to regard ourselves.

Hats off to you ST, that is a big one!

I feel an incredible urge to post many words on the subject of regard which I hadn't considered until moments ago when I read your post.

For now I will say this: Is the lack of regard for musicians demonstrated in the ease with which the masses share recorded music without any concerns in compensating the artists for their work?

Musicians don't realize they hold the control-valve for a service that's almost on the order of Oxygen. Ever see the "Music is Human" video? Humans simply have to have music, pure and simple. There would be some sorry people wandering around if we all decided to stop playing for them.

I was talking with a guy today. He brought up the story of the dentist who invited the musician to the party and then said "why don't you bring your instrument and play for us?". Oh yeah, and then I'll have a party and you can bring your dentist's chair and do a few touch-ups and whitenings for the partiers. No? Not the same as me bringing my guitar?

ST is on the money as usual. And it's probably our fault, somehow. Yeah, this is a Big One too.

Keep 'em coming. This is the tip of the iceberg I think.

Good question, Cliff. I'm ruminating...

I guess this reflects back to ST's comments about regard. I understand that I am casual entertainment, not giving a concert, but noisy, loud customers and servers/bartenders can make a gig seem to last all night. I don't really blame them, they are trained to shout over the recorded music in Appleby's and similar places, so they do the same to live entertainment. I do always try to get the "background" music turned off some time before I start playing, to get the overall volume of the room down. I honestly think my hearing has been damaged from years of trying to get monitors louder than the room.
I've never felt tempted to try in ear monitors because I think I would have a hard time adjusting to them. The Bose does help with this situation when I can get it spaced correctly behind me.

Respect

My dentist always charges me less than I think I should pay. Never anywhere near the prices posted on the office wall. I don't charge to play at his house.

If it was your dentist, he would have to pay.

Musicians' biggest problems: Look in the mirror.

I am thankful for every gig I get that results in an attentive audience.

An agent called me this week looking for someone to do a Jimmy Buffet night at a local private club. The money was the minimum I will leave the house for. But, I'm not the right guy for the job. I am not a human jukebox, waiting on the next request. Never was, never will be.

I guess in some way this ties into regard, or lack thereof.

I want to be recognized and appreciated for doing what I do, the way I do it, not for how much like Jimmy Buffet, I can do it.

I think technology can make the "work" easier. I think the technology can help us to do a better performance. I don't think technology can make the audience like us, if they would't like us without the technology.

It is not the technology, or lack thereof that really makes the difference in our success, It is whether or not we are new, different, exciting, or most desirably, unique, and how committed we are to being a successful musician or artist.

Those who play every night to a packed house that came to hear them, are playing to the packed house because they are working hard. They are making sacrifices for their art.

Can I expect to work a day job and go out on the weekend and have the same success as someone whose life is their music, and their music is their life?

One of the hardest things for me to do is stand up and be counted. If I am content to be background music, I will be background music.

In 1975 I would get up and walk out of a gig if any little thing didn't suit my "artistic" ideal. TV on? Not while I played. Loud mouth in the corner? uhuh. Sit down and shut up, or get out.

The same attitude today would guarantee one would not be working long.

Wasn't it Neil Diamond who made a Vegas deal, that drinks would not be sold during his shows? He said he had listened to enough tinkling glasses on his way to Vegas. No more.

So, decide what you wanna be. Get your commitment in line with your goal. Go out and play, and be happy that you are doing it. If you are good you will be rewarded. When you have gathered a crowd at one place, move on and gather a crowd at another.

O..

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Oldghm,

Our initial response to this was going to be "We'd like someone to invent a capo that always works on any guitar (6 or 12 string), at any fret position, and never needs adjusting". We have quite a collection of capos gathering dust (20+ at the last count ranging through Jim Dunlop, G7, Kayser, Planet Waves, Shubb etc) - we've settled on a Shubb DeLuxe for each guitar... but does the perfect capo exist? If not, why not?

However, ST's post kicked off some really good discussion, and the capo thing is small beer compared to regard and respect.

Oldghm is right on the button with "I want to be recognized and appreciated for doing what I do, the way I do it, not for how much like Jimmy Buffet, I can do it".

We play some of our own material and some 'dralons' (ie loose covers), but we never attempt to reproduce a copy of the originals... if we can't stamp something uniquely jiva-esque into a song we don't do it. When discussing this with our favourite singer/songwriter (Allan Taylor), he put it this way: "Why settle for being a second-best - ie copy of - (insert original artist name here) when you can be the best (insert your own name here)?"

This leads us on to the perennial question "Are we doing the right material?" - and we always come back to the same answer... there's little point in doing stuff we don't enjoy, even it might get us more gigs. It's perhaps easier for us to say that because we play for the love of what we do, not as professionals whose major source of income is from their music.

So, in common with many (possibly most, but certainly not all) performers, we too would like to be recognized and respected for what we do and how we do it - and if that limits our gig potential, so be it. There are plenty of performers on the circuit who can provide great entertainment doing the stuff we don't.

Returning the John Nell's points about feedback.


When I think about all the reasons we encounter feedback, as opposed to the causes of it, I quickly leave behind thoughts of gain staging, and microphone technique. These are things that we can control.

But what about the things that we cannot control. What about the acoustics of the room, the noise level, the activities going on within the sound field? Sure, we can add devices that will deal with feedback automatically, but this feels like symptomatic relief, not a cure. Like taking a pill because you have a pebble in your shoe, it might alleviate the pain, but it doesn't solve the problem because it doesn't address the reason we are in pain.

I want to thank Cliff and others at Bose who want to hear from us about the biggest problems. As they have already demonstrated, they are in a position to confront the reasons for the problems.

I think we should consider our overall "Music in the context of being human" line of thought.

quote:

Ecosystem
An ecosystem is a system whose members benefit from each other's participation via symbiotic relationships (positive sum relationships). It is a term that originated from biology, and refers to self-sustaining systems.
--- source: http://www.learnthat.com/define/view.asp?id=302

Our ecosystem, our society, provides us with feedback about how we are valued. It offers us its regard. And Mark (Le5), I think that compensation is indicator of regard, but so might be ... consumption. When people will buy the hardware required to hear us, and go to the effort to download the recordings, is this an indication of regard? Is it a lack of regard that they don't pay us directly is it possible that the payment for the music is just not getting all the way through the system to get back to us.

Back to acoustical feedback. The reason we encounter feedback is

• We are trying to generate more volume than the immediate environment can tolerate
  
• That is: There is a point beyond which we cannot get enough dynamic range between the signal (our inputs) and the noise (everything else) to be heard.
  

Taking into account comments from Oldghm, Col. Andy, Jimmy & Val.
We are not always playing a role that requires us to be significantly louder than our surroundings. It is a part of working within our ecosystem to recognize why we are there and what value we convey, and how our contributions - great or small - will be incorporated into the greater whole.

So what's wrong with the ecosystem?

Is there something wrong with the ecosystem?

Cliff said, "Musicians don't realize they hold the control-valve for a service that's almost on the order of Oxygen."

Even if we do realize it, do we actually have the will or capacity to hold that control-valve closed? How many of us play and perform, because we simply have to do it. We could no more withhold our music than we could refuse to exhale.

My biggest problem continues to be bookings & general direction. I play solo, duo, trio, quartet, quintet, & sextet. I love it all.

I also play WAY too many styles of music for a large variety of bookings - old folks, banquets, festivals, clubs, historical shows, education, dances, & on & on encompassing historic music, standards, folk, country, blues, rock, & even children's. I love it all too!

But being a jack of all trades means not only does the audience not know who I am, but it also makes bookings a nightmare. To make promotional material tailored to all these types of gigs is mind-wracking & takes more time than there is in a day or a week or a month.

So I guess management & organization is what I really need more than anything else - that & about 40 more hours in each day.

P.S. I don't want to sound braggardly & that's not my intent. I know there are some of you out there who do the same thing I do.

Tom

quote:

I also play WAY too many styles of music for a large variety of bookings

I know where you are coming from on that Tom.
The age old question, "What can you play?", with the response of "What do you want to hear?".

On one side Billie and I can go from "All that Jazz" to "El Paso" one set. Sometimes I love the variety. Other times I question our focus and direction. Most nights we are audience driven, (I guess as it should be).

So part of that is the transition from being just a musician, to an actual entertainer and there is a big difference between the two.

ST –

In the perfect world for musicians, we wouldn’t have any sound issues, tuning issues, money issues, performance venue issues, or ego issues.

But if, as you stated,

quote:

We could no more withhold our music than we could refuse to exhale.

What do you perceive Col. Cliff and Company could do to further enhance our musical experience?

My interpretation of Cliff’s post was... What can Bose Corp. do to solve the “existing, big, profound, unsolved problems in a musician's life?”

We control our own destiny (to the extent we are able in this world). We are members of the ecosystem, as you defined it. By virtue of being members in this ecosystem, we are subjected to our environment and surroundings. Some things we can easily change. Some things we can not (like room acoustics and generally sounds within our sound field) without additional efforts.

You stated,

quote:

The reason we encounter feedback is

We are trying to generate more volume than the immediate environment can tolerate
That is: There is a point beyond which we cannot get enough dynamic range between the signal (our inputs) and the noise (everything else) to be heard.

But what if we could eliminate feedback? Would having the ability to use an amplifying system to “extend” our sound and music beyond our environment and surroundings, without the need of worrying about “feedback”, be a good thing? Why else would one want to invest their hard-earned money on a mechanical device like an L1 system? I can play my bass and sing all day without amplification and thoroughly enjoy it. But only those near me at the time can enjoy it with me.

What if there was no more “feedback” problems in our little part of the ecosystem? What if someone could eliminate the causes, along with the reasons, for acoustic feedback? Would you not agree this is something worthwhile to pursue?

I realize “feedback” can also be good. Right? What if no one responded to your or my comments?

John

Are you having fun Tom?

quote:

Are you having fun Tom?

Anytime I'm playing music I'm having fun. That's what makes it worthwhile.

Tom I'm with you. I wish sometimes I could say all I do is country, blues, or R&R or just one type of music. I think we are alike in the fact that we like all kinds of music. I like playing everything. It is a challenge as a musician to learn another style of music and I like that. Then again it is hard to define yourself. My web page is set up like a booking agent. I am in all off the bands. It's just easier for me then trying to tell someone I can do whatever they want. Oh the pain of being famous and good looking. You know what I'm talking about Tom.

Hi Roy,

Aha, now I get it.

quote:

Originally posted by Roy:
My web page is set up like a booking agent. I am in all off the bands. It's just easier for me then trying to tell someone I can do whatever they want.

I remember the first time I went to your site and was really puzzled - trying to fit the impression I had of you here with what I was seeing there.

ST - People are puzzeld when they see me in real life. It's a curse. Also once I feel I have a connection with a client and I know what they want I come clean about me being in all of the bands and it all works out.

quote:

Oh the pain of being famous and good looking. You know what I'm talking about Tom.

Sure!