Hi John,

quote:

Originally posted by JohnNell:
...
What do you perceive Col. Cliff and Company could do to further enhance our musical experience?

My interpretation of Cliff’s post was... What can Bose Corp. do to solve the “existing, big, profound, unsolved problems in a musician's life?”

When I think about some of the things that Bose has already done to solve problems, it strikes me that they have addressed needs that I did not comprehend.

In talking about the big problems, I don't want to assume what Bose can or cannot do, will or will not consider.

In other words, I would prefer not to constrain the field of view by presupposing anything about what Bose might do about it.

quote:

We control our own destiny (to the extent we are able in this world). We are members of the ecosystem, as you defined it. By virtue of being members in this ecosystem, we are subjected to our environment and surroundings. Some things we can easily change. Some things we can not (like room acoustics and generally sounds within our sound field) without additional efforts.

I think we may well be able to change some of those things that are out of our immediate control. It's just that the time frame is different.

For example: I might not be able to significantly change the acoustics in a room once I have started playing.

Things I could do in a different time frame:

• Prefield the site and understand what could be done to improve the acoustics. Learning from Ken's video on Room Acoustics for Performers:
  → notice and consider the reflections, reverberation, stage and audience shapes, and echoes.
  
• Take remedial actions.
  

That takes a bigger investment, and potentially a bigger investment than a single act could afford to put into a single show.

But if we were to look at a longer time frame, if our ecosystem placed a higher value on quality auditory experience, then we could attend to those issues as part of a longer term strategy. Treating each venue as a microcosm of the ecosystem, we could create settings that enhanced the audience experience. There is a lot of benefit that could flow from that investment but it would take a will at a different level to make that happen.

What is a better investment for the owner of a venue?

1. Acoustic treatment to make a better room?
   
2. Purchasing a better house system for sound reinforcement? I would love to play at places where I could simply plug my T1® into the "house L1®"
   

At this moment I think number 1, a better sounding room, is a better investment. Make the room sound better, and every aspect of the business should benefit. The exception that comes to mind is turnover. If the business thrives on turnover, then a better sounding room might confound the perfect balance between 'good enough to get you in' and 'bad enough to get you out'

But after you have a better sounding room then you can consider what steps if any are necessary for sound reinforcement.

quote:

...
But what if we could eliminate feedback? Would having the ability to use an amplifying system to “extend” our sound and music beyond our environment and surroundings, without the need of worrying about “feedback”, be a good thing?

Put us in a good sounding room and we probably have far fewer issues with feedback.

quote:

Why else would one want to invest their hard-earned money on a mechanical device like an L1 system? I can play my bass and sing all day without amplification and thoroughly enjoy it. But only those near me at the time can enjoy it with me.

My guilty secret is that I think I actually sound better through the L1® than I do without it.

I can hear myself better, and take that "feedback" and improve my performance, live, in real-time.

I don't know what it is like with an upright Bass, but the sound I hear when playing an acoustic Guitar is different than what is heard by someone in front of it. That is, I experience the sides and back of the instrument more than the "top". I experience my instrument differently when I hear it as my audience hears it.

I still like playing without amplification and can be totally lost in the experience of playing unplugged. It is a better experience in a good sounding room though. But good sounding rooms are hard to find, so even when it is just me, I am far more likely to fire up the L1® to play, than not. That is definitely true for me with singing.

I think that the L1® allows me to take the "good sounding" experience with me from place to place in a far more predictable way than anything I have used before.

quote:

What if there was no more “feedback” problems in our little part of the ecosystem? What if someone could eliminate the causes, along with the reasons, for acoustic feedback? Would you not agree this is something worthwhile to pursue?

Oh yes, I agree that this is something to pursue. I have to pursue it one show at a time. But I think to really tame the beast, I have to address it and ponder solutions at the level of the individual venue, then types of venues, and on from there. For me, this eventually leads to the value propositions: How does our society value live music?

quote:

I realize “feedback” can also be good. Right? What if no one responded to your or my comments?

John

Thank you for responding.



Notes:

quote:

Microcosm.
a smaller system which is representative of or analogous to a larger one

e.g. Though our town is small and provincial, it is a true microcosm to the country as a whole.

Source: Wiktionary.

I don't think Cliff only means what Bose can do, but also what we can do for each other as a community. That's why he mentioned "like not making enough money..." Our big discussions at Big Sur & Little Switzerland are evidence that Cliff & the boys think about much more than products, although a great idea for a product is always taken.

Tom

Hi ST!
Thanks for your "feedback"! You have invoked some additional (different) thought patterns for me by sharing a bit of your philosophy and experience on this topic. I appreciate it. I hope others will share their thoughts and insights with Col. Cliff on this issue...
John

Hmmm...well, I was thinking Cliff was fishing for the "Big Bang" technical issues relative to working musicians. You know, the issues that a good (i.e. Bose) engineering team could set out to resolve. Pronto.

But, as Mr. Munch noted, Cliff kind of opened Pandora's Box with an aside to "...not making enough money" as being a relative issue.

That said I've enjoyed the assumed deviation this thread has taken into the mind-sets, moods, inspirations, and expectations of fellow Working Musicians.

I think we all can share and/or identify with some or all of the many facets presented. I'm sure there will be even more facets coming.

However, I'm further thinking that Cliff (regardless ambitious asides) and the rest of the Bose engineers ain't going to be addressing (let alone solving) any of those facets. Unless they Minored in Psychology or Public Relations, AND wish to be perpetually frustrated...lol.

As good as Bose engineers and products are, they're not going to aid you in having a better relationship with your spouse, or your kids...or even your dog; Or, in convincing a club owner to build a proper stage; Or, in convincing club patrons you're a better alternative to the Juke Box, or their current conversation.

For once, I won't further interject my feelings/thoughts on the various mind-sets, inspirations, and expectations expressed in this thread. I'll mind my own bee's wax...lol.

I play gigs because I really want to play gigs. I've yet to hear about a musician who was forced at gun-point to pack his gear, set up, and play at a local joint for the clueless owner and the thankless crowd. I assume we're all in concurrence on that.

However...why I want to play gigs, and why you want to, may differ greatly. Therefore, I'll stick to the more technical hopes and desires...lol.

So, Cliff, all I want for Christmas is a device that can accurately capture/represent the sound of my Taylor when I play it unplugged in my bedroom. And be conducive to amplifying that sound to any level necessary. And not be obtrusive, cumbersome, or in need of 43 control knobs and a 600-page manual.

I never need to "dial" in the sound of my guitar when I play it all by my lonesome at night. Or read even one instruction.

It's just there. Clear and sweet.

I would dearly love to have a pick-up (or whatever) that gave me the same sound and the same simplicity - at any volume, on any sound system.

Chop-chop on that. Thank you...lol.

Dennis

Mr. Dennis

Thanks for your message. And, yes, we definitely are interested in big technical problems facing musicians today, and in making technical innovations available to solve these problems, if we can make a fair business out of it. Certainly, the L1 has solved some really profound problems that have existed since the beginning of amplified-time.

But also, au contraire (pardon my French): We've been chipping away at the issue of musicians' pay since our first L1 conference in Big Sur. It's a deeply-felt general problem as evidenced by an emotional response from all the musicians at all our L1 conference since then. Getting paid a fair wage, or a respectful wage, may just be as important as the music itself if we're all honest about it. And, yeah, we'll all play for free for a variety of reasons from love to promotion. But we all want to know our work is valuable too, make no mistake. No solutions are on the Answer Page just yet, but it's slowly bubbling away in everyone's minds. We are really taking a total look at the business of making better music. Not a big science project yet, but some inspired science-oriented musicians are thinking hard about this. Stay tuned.

Also, ask Santa for a "Bose T1". This is exactly what you want for Christmas, by your description. If your Taylor has a pickup, we probably have a ToneMatch(TM) voicing for your model, a personal Christmas gift, from Brian Swerdfeger, David Hosler and me, to you.

I, like ST, feel that my voice is better amplified. When I don't have a gig, I keep my Bose set up in my music room. If I am practicing, I fire up the Bose. If I am only acoustic, I will wonder about my ability to hit a certain note. When I try it with the Bose, well, I know for sure whether I can hit it or not.
RE house systems. The Venue that I play most uses me and 3 other acts in rotation. They have banged up doors and trim, and broken tiles from musicians hauling equipment in or out. A double Bose system should handle any act they use there. So far they have no interest in spending the $ for a house system.

Respect

quote:

Originally posted by dennismp:

I play gigs because I really want to play gigs. I've yet to hear about a musician who was forced at gun-point to pack his gear, set up, and play at a local joint for the clueless owner and the thankless crowd. I assume we're all in concurrence on that.

I do concur, though I thought I read somewhere that you were not going to further interject your feelings / thoughts .....

Have you tried the ibeam?

O..

quote:

Originally posted by Col. Cliff-at-Bose:
But also, au contraire (pardon my French): We've been chipping away at the issue of musicians' pay since our first L1 conference in Big Sur.

Coin operated T1s? Band plays till time runs out, then audience puts more coins in T1s of the musicians they want to hear more of. ... Should be an easy add on to that remote footswitch for the T1.



Jim M

Jim Mead

Who are you, really?

This could be bigger than Elvis. Unfortunately, it's now publicly disclosed so we can look forward to every guitar amp on the planet having one of these things.

I'm talking about Monster Genius Deluxe over here, bronze plaque at Yankee stadium next to The Babe and all. My man. We're not worthy...

I started a longish string of posts here this morning on a new economic model for live music. I was asked to move it to a a separate thread.

Ken

quote:

Originally posted by Oldghm:

quote:

Originally posted by dennismp:

I play gigs because I really want to play gigs. I've yet to hear about a musician who was forced at gun-point to pack his gear, set up, and play at a local joint for the clueless owner and the thankless crowd. I assume we're all in concurrence on that.

I do concur, though I thought I read somewhere that you were not going to further interject your feelings / thoughts .....

Have you tried the ibeam?

O..

Hi, Oldghm

Well, that wasn't really my feelings or thoughts, it was a fact...lol.

Yeah, I tried the iBeam - good at low (solo)levels, but way to boomy, (i.e. muddy) plus overly body-sensitive and surly at '4-piece band' levels.

I'm sure I could buy an outboard device with 43 knobs and a 600-page manual to compensate for that...lol.

I'm thinking that the much-trashed "Ovation sound" is perhaps the best current live acoustic repro on the market for full band applications.

It's all give-and-take. I give music stores my money, and they take it.

Dennis

My band's biggest problem right now is getting a gig. We have nothing upcoming and, to date, have done 3 very exciting concerts in the past 3 months to really good audiences. Our problem stems from the fact that

1. We're a brand new band to the area and nobody really knows us yet.

2. We're doing mostly all original music, just released a cd "Fourteen4You" via CD Baby ( http://cdbaby.com/cd/cliffhenricksenband ) so, it's not in demand yet, like maybe "Mustang Sally" is.

3. Although we're all pro-level players, we aren't doing it full-time, so we're not in the survival mode of inspiration to work. Nevertheless, it's what we want to do. It's frustrating, though maybe just startup mode. Many of you are or have been a long-standing part of your local music culture.

4. We don't have a manager or a booking agent. We've been looking for this for a while, not having good (or any) luck.

Meanwhile, we have a huge backlog of stuff to record, so that's what we are doing in the meantime (much more on this to come)

How about you? Are you getting enough gigs? If not, why do you think? Where are you located? What's your cover/original ratio?

Amen and Ditto, Brother!

Not much happening gig-wise in North Texas, at least for our band. Since it's SO hot in the summer, I don't mind particularly, but I do miss playing. This is a big reason for my solo endeavors actually.

Rivers West is 0% originals, by design & popularity. Our followers like to hear and dance to their old favorites, and that's what we serve up. Also, we're all "special events" - corporate, private parties, some festivals - no club dates til 2:00 in the morning, again by our choice. Sometimes it's slow, sometimes it's real busy.

Our one date coming up is, believe it or not - backing up an Elvis Guy! If you'd asked me if I'd ever do that, I'd say I'd never stoop so low. But this guy is very good, and is a hoot, and this will be a lot of fun. We also pressed to do some of OUR music before The King arrives, and we decided to do a short Eagles Concert. So, this will be a fun evening. Like us, THIS King does not do this for a living either, and we're all just helping out for a worthy community event - giving back a little.

We also have been selected to perform our a cappella version of the National Anthem on Labor Day for the local Double-A baseball team, the Frisco Rough Riders (Dallas). This is our second year, and it is truly a moving experience, very enjoyable.

But yes, finding decent worthwhile gigs, for the serious but not fulltime professional band, is not an easy thing. Going union and/or with a booking agent is an alternative, but each of us are accustomed to being pretty much "in charge" in our vocations, and we actually don't even want to play more than a few or several times per month. Thus, sometimes there's dry spells.

Cliff…. Here’s the skinny on my band’s gigs. We’ve been around about 7 years and only play along the shoreline of Fairfield County, CT for the most part. We have averaged 30 to 40 gigs per year, restricted to weekends from April to November. Bookings are down 25% this year and it’s the “private parties” that are absent due to the crappy economy.

On any given night, we’ll do 30 or so classic covers which are recognizable by EVERYONE. We only slip in 3 to 5 originals per gig. They usually are well received because all the originals are satirical or off-color in content.

My personal secret to getting gigs? I joined a yacht club. Nope. Don’t currently own a boat. It got my foot in the door and I was hired at that club as a solo performer and then as a band. The other yacht clubs in the area often gravitate to whichever club has a party going on. Then you hand out business cards and before long, you’re getting booked at all these other clubs.

Then the bass player joined a veterans club. Same deal. Now we play at the VFW’s, Naval vets, Legion….

The beauty of these places is that you’re often doing afternoon or early evening gigs on the water and are homeward bound by midnight. Most definitely a better class of losers! Hahahahahaha (only kidding)

99% of our gigs are landed by word of mouth.
Internet bookings to date: zero.
Newspaper ads: one.
Booked by agents: zero.

Of course, once you’re a member/celebrity at all of these clubs, try getting out of the bar. The drink chips are deeper than the harbor…

JD

One more thing of interest (no, I'm not trying to catchup with Ken on my number of consecutive posts).... One of our fill-in guys recently played with a young kid in town at a big festival in Carolina.

The kid is from mine and John Mayer's hometown and hopes to follow that path (John's, not mine)based on his presentation of original music. The problem is that until an agent got him this gig opening for Lynyrd Skynyrd, he's been virtually playing for free at coffee shops, deli's and farmer's markets.

The regular, paying gigs for an all-original band are extremely tough to come by.

Now that I think of it, more and more of these stories are coming back to me and it's reminding me of why I left Nashville in the first place....

JD

I don't do any original music at my gigs. Song Writing is not my talent. I have a friend who is a gifted song writer who will not do any cover songs. He doesn't work much either. I personally feel that slipping a few original songs in each set is a good way to present your own material. I know we all get tired of "Margaritaville" and "Brown Eyed Girl", ETc. but they do buy guitar strings (and Bose Equipment).

Respect

I agree,

The purists in the area talk about only booking indie acts with original material, and all they get is screaming underage drinkers who don't tip or pay much for covers.

Me, I'll play my cover songs and requests, and throw in some originals to get folks familiar with them, get paid some from the owner, and make 75 or so in tips, get a free glass of wine and some food and go home.

The nice thing is, my set up tear down time is about 45 minutes total, and I am home before the underage drinkers hit the road.

Cheers.

Our experience of the 'acoustic' scene over the pond in the UK is that if you play mostly well known covers or traditional or singalong stuff you can expect a lot of gigs. However, we play maybe 30% original material - and the covers we do are not the 'hits' that people are familiar with (eg Emerson Lake & Palmer's "Lucky Man", CSNY's "4+20", Paul Siebel's "Louise" etc).

Most of our performances are at folk clubs doing floor spots or support slots for the headliners. This is OK as far as it goes and it gives us a chance to share our music and we are building a good local following. Paid gigs are few and far between - but we don't mind... when a venue/event organiser contacts us to offer such gigs it's always a bonus.

We have no illusions that we're never going to be famous or make a living out of it, we play for the love of it. Some people spend their hard earned cash on holidays, cars, golf, booze, whatever - we spend ours on our guitars and our Bose L1 sytem etc. :-)

quote:

We're doing mostly all original music, just released a cd "Fourteen4You" via CD Baby ( http://cdbaby.com/cd/cliffhenricksenband ) so, it's not in demand yet, like maybe "Mustang Sally" is.

Hi Cliff,

I just ordered the CD. Cool!! CD Baby, takes PayPal - that was easy.

I was thinking about doing a cover of "life of Crime", but I don't think I can correctly capture the "Henricksen" sound with "Band-in-a-Box" (LOL).

Well, I can always play the original as part of our "Break" music. Yeah, that will work.

As far as gig's and the Bose L1, Billie & I have been pretty lucky. I've had about 86 gig's since purchasing the L1, last July 2007.

Wow, my first year anniversary with the L1. It's been great.

The majority of gig's have been with the L1 and they have been indoors, outdoors, very big rooms, small rooms, large Polo field events, on stages, tucked in the corner, Block parties out of garages and tough back rooms with low ceilings and harsh reflections. It has done really well, with all these environments. We always get good comments and reviews on both the Bose L1 and our show.

We get about 12 gig's at the Village Gazebo Squares, which are powered with Bose equipment and staffed by their own Sound engineers.
Depending on who you get, your mileage/sound quality will definitely vary.

As I am working my guitar and keyboard, back into the show, I might be able to convince them, to let me use my L1, as a stage monitor.

I guess we'll keep on Truckin and be thankful for our location and opportunities. Since Billie & I are both front singers from bands in the past, it does not bother us to do cover tunes. We focus all of our energies into the Vocals and just have a great time. The L1 takes care of all the rest.

OK, so last night I find myself under a tent by a tiki bar on the edge of an olympic sized pool singing Margaritaville to a hundred and fifty rednecks with enough money to belong to the club. I'm sober.

You think that's not a problem?

I think I'm too much of an introvert (sober, reserved, withdrawn) to be in this extrovert business.



O..