I attended my last 'Concert' about 2 years ago and have been reluctant to go again.

It was interesting as it was in a large church in our area and had two huge curved line array's above the stage hanging down vertically. It was like there was a path cleared in front of each of them.

Interesting that the band didn't see that from the stage. There were literally no people sitting 10 feet on either side of the face of the speakers, all the way back to the back of the venue. That is, until we got there, and there were no other seats.

What a painful experience. I had forgotten to bring ear plugs, and I sat there with my fingers in my ears and encouraged my kids to do the same. They were reluctant, until we did an experiment. I asked them to tell me if they could hear better with plugged or unplugged ears? They sat the rest of the night with their fingers in their ears.

So sad that great musicians are so poorly represented by the 'sound community'.

I haven't gone to a large concert since.

I value my hearing too much.

quote:

From John Nell

This is not the response to your general inquiry about a new "boomer model" for concerts, but I'm posting here in the belief that maybe others might be interested in the answers to these questions.

1. How did you manage getting a photo of Los Lobos in concert? Most venues I attend (with national acts) do not allow cameras or recording devices inside the concert venue. And, even if you manage to sneak one in, and you're caught with it later, you're generally ejected from the concert!

2. That's such a GREAT photo of the band, that I'm curious about your camera settings. Would you mind sharing the exposure details like; F-stop, shutter speed, ISO, etc. either here, or in a PM?

Hi John,

Here's the technical details on the shot: speed = 1/30, aperture = f3.2, "film" speed: ASA 400.

The shot was taken without a tripod but using riflery technique (upper arm glued to chest, hold breath, squeeze instead of push trigger.)

I attribute the shots success more to experimentation with exposure in the shots that proceeded this one. It was very difficult to get some details on faces while not have Cesar's large white shirt blow out. Cropping plays a significant role in this composition, in my opinion.

As to getting a camera in to a show, that all seems to be changing. I was at a Metheny show the other month, and they made a special announcement about no photos and no recording.

By the last song, and the encore, there were hundreds of cell phones in the air taking pictures. Probably some of them were also recording. Venues just don't have the wherewithal to do bag checks anymore, if they ever did. Telling folks that they have to stash their bags back at the car is nonsense and most venues know it's such a turnoff that they can't do it realistically. These venues don't have "bouncers" that are looking to bust someone for discretely (no flash, shot between the heads of those in the row in front of you) taking pictures. They have volunteers from the community.

This game of policing recording is over. In one way, it's just another (mortal?) wound for musicians who want to and deserve to make money when their art is consumed. In another, however, it is the proliferation of amateur documents that can geometrically increase the popularity of a piece of art.

How can artists take advantage of that?

Ken

I can remember Deep Purple as being the loudest concert I'd ever been to, back in the mid-seventies. It was an outdoor event with maybe 30,000 in attendance.

I saw Ritchie Blackmore in concert last fall, in a 500 seat theater. What a difference thirty years makes.

He did a few DP songs but he's mostly playing Rennaissance Rock. There were times when you could hear a pin drop.

It's just a slow turning that comes with time...

JD

quote:

From JD

Hey, is there some kind of award that goes out to the person with the greatest number of posts?

JD, you funneh!

The reason I break things up like this is twofold: I'm too lazy to cut and paste a safety copy of text that I'm writing as I go along. I'm a slow writer/thinker and I've had text disappear when I hit the post now button. So I post fragments as I go.

Also, I think the world likes its information chunked more than before. The days of people digesting long polemics is pretty much over, save for a few nuts (like I am).

quote:

From Le5

Interesting observation about the inability to discern individual instruments or voices. This could be a bad mix but I'm more inclined to attribute it to the experience L1 owners have reported when placing too many similar voices (human or instrument) into one L1. What are your thoughts? Was the Line Array a single hang?

I strongly urge you to watch the video lecture on Psycho-acoustics for Performers by research engineer Chris Ickler. The lecture culminates in a demonstration of the "cocktail party effect" that is stunning and will forever and profoundly answer your question.

If you do not wish to watch the video, let me know here and I will answer your question in text.

All the best,

Ken

quote:

From gittar-jonz

Anyway, back to the theater. I had a very similar experience a couple of years ago. I went to see Robben Ford and Johnny A (guitar heaven) with a very good friend of mine, who also happens to be the person that introduced me to the L1 nearly 5 years ago. The concert was at the Regent Theatre in Arlington, MA.

Jonzey! Great to hear from you, man.

Six degrees of separation: We did a venue test at the Regent when we were finding the limitations of a full-on R&B band playing on an L1 system.

I remember walking into the venue (from the back row of seats as you'll recall) after a dinner break. The band was in full output mode and I who had heard the L1 as much or more than anyone, was completely floored by the sound in the back row. I literally dropped to my knees and thought holy cow, it is so clear and so natural back here -- and so unlike what I'm used to at "rock" concerts. I was so, so happy.

I have a stereo-mic recording of this test with some KILLER music on it. The band was the band to become known as The Linemen.

With best regards,

Ken

quote:

From dennismp

I would suggest they consult and/or hire some sound men with experience running Bluegrass festivals/venues/events. Those guys seem very adept at providing clear, cutting tone for all the wired and un-wired instruments innate to the genre, (banjo solos, fiddle solos, mandolin solos, guitar solos, harmonica solos, etc.) plus all the vocals, (including intricate and often subtle harmonies) yet manage to do it all at tolerable, all-age-group levels.

Hi Dennis,

Interesting take.

My feeling is this: the first order issue is not who can and can't mix well. All of these guys have some reasonable skill in this area I think, although I'm intrigued by your suggestion that the bluegrass/traditional guys are especially good at this in a live setting -- need to think on that more.

My belief is that when it's terribly loud, good mixing doesn't matter. The ear doesn't do well as an instrument at high sound levels. It goes into protection mode, and creates a lot of its own distortion too. As you may know there are tiny muscles that attach to the three tiny bones in the middle ear that automatically (involuntarily) flex when the levels are high, reducing the efficiency of the ear (lowering the vibration level reaching the oval window -- the transducer that drives the liquid filled inner ear where the organ of hearing -- the cochlea -- is located.

So I think these guys just crank it and get a nominal mix, and then make sure they handle anything that goes wrong (feedback, broken gear, unhappy players, etc.)

Also, a mono, or dual mono, or two channel PA for a multi-instrument, multi-voice ensemble will suffer from the fact that we are not able to employ the amazing property of our hearing system called the Cocktail Party Effect, leaving even the most talented mixer handicapped. That's one reason that even talented mixers have to "ride" solos (boost them) which drives me out of my mind.

More later.

Ken

I've emailed the Technical Director at the Mahaiwe (I now know that the correct pronunciation is ma-HAY-way: practice this at home) and am awaiting an answer.

quote:

From the New York Times article posted above as a pdf (that I know most won't click on and read) -- I wouldn't)

In an environmentally conscious tweak on the typical way of getting
food to the table, growing numbers of people are skipping out on grocery stores and even farmers
markets and instead going right to the source by buying shares of farms.

What I want is a Live Music Farm.

One that's within 15 minutes of my home.

Occasionally I go to one of the other music farms because they're growing something I can't get at mine (e.g. bluegrass, or computer music, or Frank Zappa orchestras).

quote:

Continuing from the NYT article...

Mr. Trisko is a retired computer consultant who owns shares in the four-acre Erehwon Farm.
“We decided that it’s in our interest to have a small farm succeed, and have them be able to have a
sustainable farm producing good food,” Mr. Trisko said.

I am interested in having great locally produced live music survive and for it to be sustainable.

quote:

From the NYT article:

Part of a loose but growing network mostly mobilized on the Internet, Erehwon is participating in what is known as community-supported agriculture. About 150 people have bought shares in
Erehwon — in essence, hiring personal farmers and turning the old notion of sharecropping on its
head.

150 people is not a lot.

Mobilized on the internet.

Hmm...

I wonder how that's done and what it means?

quote:

NYT

There were fewer than 100 such farms in the early 1990s, but in the last several years the numbers have grown to close to 1,500, according to academic experts who have followed the trend.

That's a lot of fruits and vegetables. I bet they taste really good.

That's a lot of live music. I bet those concerts are really good.

quote:

NYT

Shareholders are not required to work the fields, but they can if they want, and many do.

Shareholders are not required to work the shows, but they can if they want, and many do.

Working a show brings many closer to the music they love, and in some live music farms, they can reduce their cash outlay for a share by helping on shows.

quote:

Mr. Trisko said his family knows that without his volunteer labor and agreement to share in the financial risk of raising crops, the small organic farm might not survive.

Without community involvement in the live music farm, the small organic music farm might not survive.

quote:

The arrangement involves real farms and real farmers and is distinct from community
gardens and other forms of urban farming

Oh. This is crucial.

The musicians in the Live Music Farm are professionals. They know how to play and how to entertain. There may be many outlets for amateur musicians.

But this is not one of them.

quote:

At least 24 vegetable farmers serve an estimated 6,500 members throughout the five boroughs of New York City, said Paula Lukats of Just Food, which connects farmers with residents there. In 2005, there were 37 C.S.A. groups in the city; today, there are 61.

Does "Just Food" do the connecting through the internet? How do people find out about Just Food? How does the expansion work?

6,500 members in New York City. Do the math!

quote:

The Golden Earthworm Organic Farm, on 80 acres on the North Fork of Long Island, grew from 10
members in 2000 to about 1,300 this year, according to Matthew Kurek, one of the owners. About
half of the members live in Queens, he said, and the farm delivers their weekly shares to six different
sites there, mainly churches and community centers, 26 weeks a year. The farm grows arugula,
strawberries and sugar snap peas in the spring; watermelon, eggplant and tomatoes in the summer;
and broccoli, potatoes and carrots in the fall.

The Golden Guitar Music Farm, located in a renovated barn on the North Fork of Long Island, grew from about 10 members in 2000 to 1,300 this year. The GGMF features electric guitar music in the winter, and acoustic guitar music in the warmer months.

quote:

“We don’t do millions in revenue, but we make a living, which is rare,” he said. “Our goal is to
provide a full portfolio of products for folks who want sustainable products. Up until about five years
ago, we had to do a tremendous amount of guerrilla marketing. The consumer who is interested now,
they’re doing their homework. They know the health and taste benefits.”

Hmm...

quote:

“This is a complicated business, growing so many crops. We do
everything by hand for more than 100 different crops.”

Amen.

Can anyone tell me how to turn off the automatic e-mail notifications on this thread?

The guy in the next office is banging his head on my wall....

JD