quote:

The adapter from that other thread ST mentioned would work very well. Here's a pic so you can see what it looks like.

Thanks Tom
That looks good.

I'm sure there was much discussion at-Bose before deciding to leave out the T1® port. I have to wonder whether many at-Bosers thought we regulars would buy a Compact.

Just thinking out loud...

Tom, once you've had a drink of the Koolaid it's hard to say no to something new.

I do wish they would ask me before commiting to a design.

I think the Compact will fit many niches, like the Classic, that were unseen during development. I feel confident mine will get use at times when I might not have done anything before.

The simplicity of setup and controls, suggests it is aimed at the least knowledgeable of performing sound techs, but that simple, lightweight, small package is probably appreciated more by the most experienced of players. We've had more time to tire of the unneccessary trappings that go with this business.

O..

I know. I'm just trying to get inside why they left it out. I have to use 3 extra cables & a splitter to use the T1® with the Compact. I'm mainly on the hunt now to find a mic & guitar that sound good straight in & don't need any shaping or notching from the T1®.

It would be interesting to know if the T1 was an afterthought - in that Bose never imagined there would be a request for such a tool, believing that the inputs to the L1 were ok as they were for processing the signal, etc. I recall early on, all the talk about not needing reverb - yet some folks still would like to have it...just in case. So, here it is with the T1.

In which case, there could be some upgrades to the Compact in the next generation (if there is enough interest) which might include such things as a Tone Match port, for example.

Stu

The decision of not having a T1® ToneMatch port on the L1® Compact has bothered me for a few weeks now, but I have finally reasoned why the decision to not include one was made.

I think the folks-at-Bose figured solo artists don’t use or wouldn’t buy the T1® ToneMatch Audio Engine. Therefore, there was no need for a T1® ToneMatch port on the L1® Compact, since they could just build some limited ToneMatch functionality into the system. I believe that could really be the reason behind leaving the T1® port off the L1® Compact. The L1® Compact is marketed toward the singer/songwriter, so they just built it into the system for the sake of simplicity. And to cover their bases, they provided a means to plug it in for use, just in case those of you which already own a T1® ToneMatch decided you would like using it with your L1® Compact. It’s a little messy, requiring the power supply, but, hey it works!

So, it was an easy new product decision, as I see it. No additional engineering required to support a T1® port. No L1® Compact software engineering or programming required. No parts to drive up costs of the L1® Compact. All bases are covered with the “plug-in” option. It’s a simple, cost effective decision with no missed opportunities in their targeted audience. Plain and simple.

Since Bose listens to their customers, only time will tell whether the next version of the L1® Compact will have a T1® ToneMatch port. Here’s my vote to have it included, though!

A faithful T1® ToneMatch user…

quote:

Originally posted by JohnNell:
It’s a simple, cost effective decision with no missed opportunities in their targeted audience.

I agree with the first half of your statement, but not the second half.

I think it is a great missed opportunity. The T1 is special. Those who use it, know it. Bose advertises it as such. It's price suggests high end quality, and it performs as such. To not provide a special place for the T1 is shortsighted in my opinion. How can it be the desire of everyone to own a T1 if Bose doesn't think enough of it to provide its own special input. A place where no other mixer will work. A place to get the best possible sound from your Compact.

While it may seem that the "targeted audience" is somewhat less sophisticated than those of us who have all the answers, play the best licks and only sing popular songs, . I don't believe that for a minute. I think the Compact is designed for everyone. This thing has more potential than a hand with two thumbs, even with its shortcomings.

O..

quote:

I think it is a great missed opportunity. The T1 is special. Those who use it, know it. Bose advertises it as such. It's price suggests high end quality, and it performs as such. To not provide a special place for the T1 is shortsighted in my opinion. How can it be the desire of everyone to own a T1 if Bose doesn't think enough of it to provide its own special input. A place where no other mixer will work. A place to get the best possible sound from your Compact.

I fully agree with "O" and the rest of the "Pro" T1/L1 users, I am still having a hard time over the T1 port being missed on the L1C. I have had several sessions with a "Therapist", who told me to just move on with life, but it just seems like such a snub and missed opportunity. Many of us (who were not consulted on the new stripped down design), really would have loved that T1 port in there. Even hoping for a swappable panel or possible factory update.
Heck, I would give an extra $100 + for the T1 port in a heartbeat. Thats, how much I hate extra cables and AC adapters.
Yes, I know it can be connected with an "optional AC Power Adapter" and a 1/4" cable, but it just doesn't feel the same as being a part of the system, as in just plugging in the "Digital Cable". Maybe a few more "Therapy" sessions will help us get over it.

BTW, Bose has been conspicuously absent in comments regarding this missing T1 port. Hmm, Chime in here anytime.

quote:

Originally posted by Joelheck:
I would give an extra $100 + for the T1 port in a heartbeat.

I used that exact price point and identical wording in a private message several weeks ago to some of my -at-Bose friends.

I own the AC adapter for the T1. I've used it, I think, once. It's just too much stuff - the wall wart, the AC cable for the wall wart, the proprietary cable for the T1, extra audio leads, etc. My T1 and L1 Model II currently sit in our music room while I use a Classic for orchestra concerts and my little combo amp for the cheap, crowded jazz gigs.

It's painful to read Tom's message above about looking for a different mic and guitar that don't require the T1. Tom should simply use what he wants to use, not be off on a search for different gear and some cabling work-around.

With the Compact Bose seems to have done an excellent job targeting the average solo singer/guitarist or public speaker. What they missed, simply by leaving out the ToneMatch port, are people, like me, who tend to use the systems in ways perhaps not originally imagined. People who need more I/O. Or phantom power. Or simply knobs on the front.

Like Oldghm said: please talk to me before you finalize the design.

Alan,

Thanks for the concern. If I wasn't someone who enjoys the challenge & sees the experimentation as an opportunity for growth then I would be more put out by the lack of T1 port. I have found a great new sound for my guitar - actually an old combination I had forgotten about that is better through the T1 as well. Also the switch to a dynamic mic has been enlightening too. I had forgotten some of the advantages that dynamic mics have.

That said I would still like a convenient option for the T1 with the Compact. I can comiserate with the Bose folks in a big way though. If there was a T1 port on the Compact then some folks who have no need for a T1 would purchase one & have a headache learning it. Think of the community organization that needs a basic tabletop PA. They don't need a T1 & would be calling support immediately if a GC employee sold them one with their new Compact. So instead the Compact has one mic channel with one preset built in & limited EQ so that there's no way they cannot get good sound. There's real value there for the folks who are probably the biggest market for this product. I can really understand this. I once sold a GK vocal amp to a community organization where I built a cover for all the controls except the volume. They just didn't need any more chance at getting bad sound. How many PA's have we all seen where all the knobs are randomly tweaked & the 7-band EQ is in a permanent smiley? The Compact is a brilliant answer to this, & a great opportunity for Bose. Remember the videos of new T1 owners with every effect turned on & the EQ wildly out of whack? That's who the Compact is targeted at. We pro users just happen to be a pleasant surprise. Anyway, I just seem to be on a rant, but I just wanted to defend the Compact a bit.

Now I do like the idea of a plug-in T1 port card for a $100 extra for those of us who want it. If this is a possibility, then I'd encourage this in every way possible.

Tom

Tom, I love you brother, but if we follow your logic we wouldn't sell cars to people who can't parallel park, or merge when entering an interstate, or hammers and paintbrushes to DIY's, or balls and gloves to 4 year olds, or T1's to beginners, Oh, you already said that.

I really think the decision was directly related to cost, not who the buyer, would or wouldn't be.

In a sense it's not a big deal, I will use and enjoy the Compact, with, and without the T1. It's just my opinion that the decision was shortsighted, for a company that tends to have product on the market, unchanged, for a long time. Of course, my opinion is worth what it cost. I certainly wouldn't want anyone to think the Compact is not complete and capable without the T1 port, it's just not as convenient as it could be.

I'm just glad we don't buy sound equipment by the lb. or by the knob, or I/O's, if we did we would think Bose was too expensive.

I'm playing breaks for a loud band tomorrow night, but it's in a venue where they have to really keep it down. I am taking the Compact because I think it is enough to impress the band. I had offered to set up L1's for this gig because one band member really wants to move in that direction, but, the others think they (L1s) won't do the job. It will be a learning experience for all.

O..

O,

It's no shame to make a product really easy to get good sound from & really hard to get bad sound from. The Wave radio has limited controls as well, but most folks are really happy with it.

T

I certainly can't speak for Bose, but I would not be surprised if the decisions that determined final cost were affected by Fishman's similar product. I'm sure it's no coincidence that they're both priced the same. If design costs were tight, I'm sure the T1 connection would have pushed them over the price point.

Having said that, I would think an upcharge/modification charge to add the T1 port would solve two problems:

- Standard production costs (and final market price) would remain unchanged.
- Only those customers who wanted the mod would have it (and only they would pay for it).

No changes to marketing, advertising, printed manuals or price, no production line changes, no hassels. A win/win situation.

And if it turns out that a very high % of customers paid for the mod, Bose could change the design if they saw fit. But they wouldn't have to.

Taylor offers standard upgrades to their guitars (as opposed to actual custom shop designs), for an additional charge. And even though many opt for those common upgrades, their production models remain unchanged in stores and catalogs. Doesn't seem to bother anybody...

(edited by Tres for clarity)

quote:

Now I do like the idea of a plug-in T1 port card for a $100 extra for those of us who want it. If this is a possibility, then I'd encourage this in every way possible.

I keep looking at the 6 screws in the back panel and thinking. This might be a good place to put a surprise, like a swap out panel with a T1 port in it.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom Munch:
O,

It's no shame to make a product really easy to get good sound from & really hard to get bad sound from. The Wave radio has limited controls as well, but most folks are really happy with it.

T

You are so right Tom, I am extremely happy with my Wave radio, but I'm not trying to be creative with it. This world would be a boring place if artists didn't mix the primary colors.

My complaint is not that the Compact is simple, easy to use, with great sound with tone controls flat. My complaint is that the simplicity of setup was not extended to those who own or might want to own a T1.

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse. I probably shouldn't have gotten into the debate about the way it was designed for those it was designed for. But I can't quit.

There is a balanced input that will accept any mixer that an owner desires to plug in, so if a beginning sound tech has $59 he can easily ruin his sound without any help from us or Bose. That in itself should be reason enough to have a special input that says plug your in here.

O..

I know there are just a few of us talking about this ToneMatch port idea here in the thread, but I'm finding the absence of any at-Bose participants almost deafening! I keep yearning to hear from Ken, Neil, Col. Cliff or others about why it was not included. I just can't believe they didn't think about including one. Of course, I also realize they probably can't discuss such a topic, at least not publicly. But, I'd love to sit down with one of them over lunch at a conference sometime, and understand the reasoning behind the decision.

Speaking of conferences, when/where are we having the next one??? It's been over a year since the last, and I'm getting really itchy to hear and see all of you again! Maybe the theme could be "L1® Compact and How you use it!" Sort of a "focus group" thing....

Oh, and "O..", I do agree with you, the T1® is special. And you are correct when you say, those of us who use it, know it. Unless Bose has a master plan to eliminate it by incorporating it's functionality into future products, I would agree with you they need to provide a sleek, almost effortless method, to easily integrate it with all of their L1® family of products. I view it as an integral part of the “Bose sound.”

Hi John,

I've been monitoring this thread closely, thinking about when I'd jump in and give you our perspective. I almost jumped a few days ago. But your post has tipped me over the edge.

I think it's great to hear you veterans constructively criticize, and praise, what we do. It is on this anvil that better products are forged.

We agonized over whether to put the ToneMatch port into the Compact or not. It is expensive and that always makes things more difficult. What I can tell you is that the debate ended up very close to the decision line, if that's any consolation to those of you that believe it should have been on the other side of the line.

Beyond the relatively high expense of adding the port (you need to add the ethernet-like circuitry and the D/A circuitry) we wanted to keep the Compact simple and direct for the user that is only intimidated by more complex controls. Many, many hours were spent discussing the pluses and minuses. We wanted to dramatically expand the base of musicians and others considering an L1 product with the Compact and in the end we went with simplicity fulling realizing we were going to somewhat disappoint the veterans that put the L1 family on the map to begin with.

This was not an easy decision. The articulate and passionate statements in this thread only add to the debate and we are grateful for that. The points are registering and they are integrated into our thinking as we move forward.

(Thoughts on conferences to follow later.)

With best regards,

Ken

quote:

the user that is only intimidated by more complex controls

This is the confusing part, to me:

The T1 port has no controls. It could be just another connection on the back side, e.g., where the Line Out connections are located -- which many people ALSO don't understand.

I do recognize the expense and additional internal complexity aspect.

Hello Ken,
I just want to thank you guys at Bose for designing this Compact miracle.I own a Classic and a Model II with a T1.I purchased the Compact for what the name implies.I knew it was a cost effective alternate to the much larger L1s without all the bells and whistles for smaller venues.I know you guys are getting hammered for leaving out the Digital connection.I for one, don't find this to be an issue.I believe the inclusion of the extensions to be more thoughtful and useful.I imagine having the Tone port connection without the extensions in a crowded small room with no way to get over the heads of standing people.Raising the whole Compact up would not be an option.I just want to give you guys applause for this great addition to my options.I remember you guys getting hammered for not having six channels on the T1,seems like most everyone adjusted.Again,thanks for a great product - J.D.

Hi Ken!

I, and I'm sure others, appreciate you chiming in on the T1® ToneMatch port! It's reassuring to know it was seriously considered in the final design of the product. I'll keep the faith that you and other at-Bose folks will do the right thing in future product releases and incorporate the port, where it makes sense for the majority of the entire marketplace. After all, we love our T1®s!!!

Have a GREAT holiday weekend!