Got a call yesterday. 8 months (almost to the day) from when I ordered it...
"Come and get it!"
edit: unfortunately this link not longer works,
Read all about it! but here is a clip on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_dfZc-rQ3sThis message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,
Oh, and what does this have to do with the Bose Personalized Amplification ™ Family of Products?
Well, in addition to
- a new neck design
- new bird inlays
- 25 1/4" scale (versus the usual 25")
- did away with the pickup trim rings, just perfectly finished insets for the pickups
- Brazilian Rosewood neck (not just the fingerboard, the whole neck)
- new joint design (less intrusive than previous designs)
There is a new (for PRS) pickup system.
There are five single-coil pickups.
There is a new pickup switching system.
- 5 way knife switch - Pickup Selector
(like a Strat) (sorta)
- 3 way knife switch (like a tone control but not quite)
(Settings are Single-Coil / Clear Humbucking / Heavy Humbucking)
The designation "513" means
5 way switch
Oh yeah, back to the Bose tie-in.
So I'm down with the flu when the call comes from Long & McQuade. I'm supposed to be napping so I can make it through the gig later that night.
Glance at the call display expecting to let it go to voice mail. Hmmm.... L&M .... Maybe I better answer it.
45 minutes later I am at the store watching as Andrew (Guitar Department Manager) peels away the packing from around the neck.
We check it out, basically perfect. He wants to read me the explanation about the pickups, the "Patent Applied For" business and on and on.
I grab the guitar and head for the "wank" room.
I can get the familiar 5 sound selections as with the standard PRS 5 way rotary, but there's hints of something more.
Now I'm sitting in the room where the youngsters crank the big Boogies and Marshalls and whatever else they can fit in there. It's supposed to be sound proof, but on a bad (typically) Saturday, you hear Stairway to Heaven, or Yngwie Malmsteen screaming out of there at volumes that no sound deadening can contain.
Okay, I think I can hear maybe 3 or 4 more "voices" in this axe. That is, the familiar 5 and then something more closely resembling the two "in-between" positions on a Strat.
So where's the other 4 or 5?
No matter what amp I run into, I can't quite make out the subtleties.
Now this hunk of wood is as alive and resonant as any solid body I've ever played. This much I can tell, and you guitar players know what I mean. You can actually feel the body sing, unamplified.
So unfulfilled I take a leap of faith, plunk down the dough and head home with it.
Fill in the "Why is a guitar better than a ... jokes here"
Elapsed time since phone call - 110 minutes...
I flew in the door and hit the power switch on the Bose system. (It's always ready to go).
I plug in the guitar (straight in!)
Version 2.0 Presets:
00 - okay
35 - PRS Custom 22 - oooh, aaaah
25 - Electric Guitar Direct (same as Version 1, 12" speaker) - oooh, different aaaah
With more discipline than I can usually muster, I take a few minutes to tweak the setup, then put it away so I don't blow out my hands before the gig. Quick nap... great gig (band responses later).
Are there 13 voicings in there with a standard rig? Probably, but I can't hear the differences.
Are there 13 voicings in there with the Bose system. Most definitely.
At the gig, I'm running my little V-Twin pedal into Preset 00.
We don't need to do sound checks anymore, so I leave the guitar in the case until the last possible moment.
There's something weird with the stage lights so there's not a lot of light on my side of the stage.
We run through the first set and the whole time, the other guys are doing double-takes. "Okaaaaaaay, what did you do?".
They can hear the different voicings too. They like 'em. Did you ever wonder (as a Guitar player, if the other guys in the band actually listen or hear what you are doing? At least with the Bose system they can if they want to).
So here's the thing.
Until I got the Bose system, to a certain extent, the subtleties of my better instruments were often lost. The amp was the lowest common denominator. This applied to mics, acoustic and electric guitars.
Getting into the new approach (Bose) is like getting new glasses.
This changes everything!
edits - spelling - added some detail, oh, and I found out that this particular guitar was ordered in December 2003 on spec. I was the first to actually request that they order one 7 months later. So it took 15 months. Whew.This message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,
Great lookin' guitar too.
What this has to do with our system is that when you play that PRS, the sound will show up as good as you want, but that's all you will see. The system will disappear into the background and everyone's attention will be drawn to (you and) the guitar.
What a beauty!
Picking this up from another. discussion:
I read this, and wandered off to figure out what I could do about this. I really like the sound of the 513 straight into the Bose System using V2.0 preset #35 (PRS Custom 22).
The 513 has 5 single coil pickups with 13 wiring combinations. 513 = 5 pickups, 13 combinations
There's a 5 way knife switch like a Strat, but there is also a 3 way knife switch that allows Single Coil, Clear Humbucking and Heavy Humbucking 'treatment' for each of the 5 positions on the first switch. Somehow this yields 13 unique combinations.
So I've been sitting there for a couple of hours trying to come up with riffs that I could play in all combinations that might demonstrate the sounds. Trying to play a single riff consistently 13 times is a challenge for me at the best of times = why I play mostly lead.
The other issue was that of course, not all combinations feel right with the same riff. For example with the Heavy Humbucking + Bass Pickup settings (which tend to roll off a little of the highs) I want to play double/triple stops up the neck, and for the single coil Middle-Treble type sounds I want to play open strings, acoustic Guitar type things. You really get to hear the Guitar sing in this mode. But in any case the settings I would use in the context of the band would tend to be much brighter, mid-rangeyer to sit better in the mix. This doesn't sound all that nice playing solo.
Anyway, I had fun messing with this for awhile and got out a mic so I could talk to you while recording the riffs explaining about the pickup settings. Fired things up and realized (since haven't tried to talk to anyone all day, that I still haven't got any voice. (Been down with something for several days and feeling much better now. But, when I open my mouth to speak, all that comes out is air).
So I think I'll hunt around the web to see if I can find some clips of Paul Reed Smith doing demos. I know I've seen some where he demonstrates some of the pickups on some of his earlier models.
Besides, in all of this time, I've never figured out how to get a decent recording translated into a clip for the web. That's a project that would probably have taken the rest of the day.
PS It looks like PRS have updated the 513 page
and that there may be some sound clips there at some point in the future.
edit - corrected the names related to Single Coil, Clear Humbucking and Heavy Humbucking.This message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,
Later today I'll dig up a Strat and do some head-to-head stuff and let you know. Don't want to comment on this until I have the sound 'fresh' in my ears.
Questions for you... does the scale-length of the neck matter much to you?
Do you have any PRS Guitars? Do you like 'em?
36 hours later
Sorry it took so long to find that Strat - a Custom Shop US Vintage Series circa 1990 I think.
I tried it in Channel 2 with some different presets. I settled on the recommended
Version 2.0 preset #28 "Fender Stratocaster".
I ran the 513 into Channel 1
Version 2.0 preset #35 "Paul Reed Smith Custom 22"
Not being a 'Strat' guy (explains why it took me so long to find it), I can say that the 5 positions on the switch do much the same thing on both Guitars. That is ... switching from one position to the next creates a similar difference in 'feel'. But at the same time, I don't think you would have difficulty distinguishing one Guitar from the other.
Last note on this for now. If any of you guys haven't visited the different presets in awhile, I'd encourage you to run straight-in and spin those numbers. I was quite pleasantly surprised at the different sounds that the Strat could produce. It was a nice journey.
What is the scale length on the 513? I know PRS usually sticks to 25"; did they go to 25 1/2 for this guitar? I don't own any PRS's but I've worked on quite a few. I like 'em. I'm
definitely more of a single coil guy, though.
The scale length is 25 1/4.
More information on a different PRS 513 page (has specs)
Historically I've been more of a humbucking guy, but I'm really liking the single coil voicings on the 513.
Edit: The 513 page linked above is no longer there.
I found these notes on the PRS site - Models page
This message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,
Wanted to get back to you about
I had to switch back and forth between Guitars quite a bit to feel comfortable speaking to this. It was one of those weird journeys where you have to be more aware than normal, why you experiencing something a certain way. I tend not to get very analytical about the playing so this an interesting twist in thinking for me.
(Cliff-at-Bose and non-Guitar folks can probably bail on this post right now).
* Feelings about the differences *
I like the 513 neck. If you like a traditional Strat neck with an Eric Claption style profile, you are going to like this a lot. If you like a Gibson neck, you will feel quite at home with this too once you get accustomed to the longer scale length. (It's closer by 1/4" to the Strat than a Les Paul).
I like the PRS Wide necks, and the 513 seems to be the same width at the Nut and 12th frets. No adjustments there. It's also pretty much that same as a Strat.
General feelings about the 513:
It's extremely versatile, and I will probably be discovering things to like for years to come. In our band, we take requests for covers and sometimes we actually do them. Having the very clearly articulated single coil settings is great for Strat songs. The Heavy Humbucking setting is much more like driven Les Paul. That's not a sound I go for often, but you can get there with a flick of a switch.
If we are doing a set show I might be happier to go with the Brazilian Custom 24 with the Wide/Thin neck. Until the 513 I was a humbucking sort of player. The Brazilian feels much more like the traditional PRS than the 513. Talk about old friends. But this one speaks more clearly to me than most.
That about sums it up. What follows is some more detailed bits that I found along the way.
* Observations *
The 513 feels more like a tradtional neck (from the days before they talked about Wide/Fat or Wide/Thin) and I think it looks more like "C" shape below, than any of the others.
So it's a comfortable 'someplace between Wide/Thin and Wide/Fat". I don't think it is exactly like any of the profiles above, but it is probably most like "C"
I don't mind switching from PRS Wide/Thin neck to Wide/Fat neck. It's different but not an issue.
I couldn't find a reference to neck widths but from what I can measure here.
The 513 is the same as the PRS Wide necks which seems to be the same as my U.S. Custom Shop Strat.
Nut 42 mm
12th fret 52 mm
The 513 is pretty close to half-way between a Gibson and a Strat at 25 1/4 (real half way would be 25 1/8)
* Thinking behind the observations *
I'm more aware of differences in scale length than neck profile.
I tend to have the headstock parallel or higher than my left shoulder. The net result is that my thumb behind the neck. I try not to get my thumb around the neck because it tends to get me choked up. I think that this means that the differences in Thick vs. Thin are going to be less apparent to me.
I *am* aware of the neck profile as I'm playing - but that awareness is short lived. Five minutes in, and that awareness is gone. So switching between Guitars is pretty easy from say a Wide/Fat profile to a Wide/Thin. I always like moving from a Wide/Fat to a Wide/Thin, but going the other way is no harder, more like, "hmmm, home again".
I've got an early Music Man EVH and the neck is quite a bit different from everything else around here. I like it a lot, but again, that sense of a different neck profile fades pretty quickly.
Scale length makes a much bigger difference for me as it means the difference between hitting a note cleanly or not. This is especially true for leaping great distances at a single bound shifts in position on the neck.
Fender typical 25 1/2"
Paul Reed Smith typical 25"
Gibson typical 24 3/4"
Paul Reed Smith Santana 24 1/4"
PRS 513 25 1/4"
This is half-way between a Gibson and a Strat + 1/8"
Typical PRS is half-way between a Gibson and a Strat -1/8"
I tried to find the differences in radius between the 513 and other models.
513 - 10" (same as original 1985 models and the Modern Eagle)
Santana - 11.5"
Depending where you find it on the web (in this case Warmoth)
Wow ST... what an incredibly comprehensive rundown of the 513 and neck shapes...
PRS would be proud! As would Fender and Gibson too...
Actually the neck shape is an extreme issue in my situation. I find that there are certain kinds of techniques I cannot apply as well if the neck is too fat or chunky ... one of these techniques being "sweep picking," where I need to have easy access to the lower strings. I like to incorporate chord clusters (chords which include intervals of a minor or major second, etc.) and chords built in fourths and/or fifths ... both of these require the fingers to really stretch for the notes.
I've owned both PRS McCarthy models ... solid and hollowbody and just could not get past the necks girth. It's ergonomic, in the sense that my small hands become limited as a consequence. I so didn't want that to be true, but alas, it just was...
Last year I bought a Deluxe Strat with the V shaped neck and was very disappointed to find out that I was also fighting it... I have to stick with the C shapes on Fender type guitars.
My Gibson 336 has a 60's slim tapered neck with is very different then your usual huge Les Paul neck. I totally love the neck profile on the 336. Check one out if you get a chance. And as you mentioned.. I also love the wide/thin neck by PRS... in fact, that has to be a requisite if I purchase a PRS again.
However, you've got me very curious about the PRS 513... both in sound and playability. Can't wait to put my hands on one. I also heard they just put out a new Johnny Hiland Model with a very slim neck that's also quite different from all the others. Included with this is a totally new breed of pickups.
Well, I just played almost every night for two weeks straight with this Anderson Hollow Classic ... it has many variations in electronics much like your PRS 513. Plus it's so light ... almost as light as a Parker Fly. The big tone chambers rounds off sharp edges ... but the guitar still retains a beautiful airy openness will all the spanky and clean rhythm sounds that I desire and love so much. It also sings and sustains like a 335 ... a very good cross between a Strat and a 335. The best one I've came across so far (it's been my dream). Oh, and the neck has a compound radius, which facilities my odd chord voicing very well. I'm amazed at the quality of this instrument. Remarkable attention to details!!
Scale length is also very important ... not only in feel as you mentioned ... but also in tone quality. Simply put, as I'm sure you know, a longer scale has a bit more bite or clarity to the notes and a tighter bass sound. As a shorter scale will always sound a little bit (or a lot in some cases) darker with the bass notes being a little more spongy or wobbly. Amp EQ plays a different roll in each case.
Also it's easier to bend to pitch on a shorter scale. One has to work a little harder to get good pitch and a decent vibrato on a longer scale.
Thanks again ST...
You are *so* welcome.
Glad you are enjoying the Anderson. Lots there to like.
I've played a couple of Guitars with the Buzz Feiten tuning system. It DOES make a difference. Can't quite bring myself to get anything retrofitted though.
The Parker Fly is an interesting instrument. Had one as my main gigging axe for awhile. It's hard to describe how a pound or two can make such a big difference. I use Neotech guitar straps that create the illusion of lighter weight.
As you describe your technique and what you are doing, it's much clearer why the finer points matter so much. I'm much more inclined to play shorter intervals that don't challenge the hands in the same way.
To use a silly metaphor, I'd probably show up in high tops to run the Big Sur Marathon. You could tell me the biomechanics of why I should go change my shoes, and do it with the conviction that comes from experience.
You have a way of describing what you do and how you perceive it that actually makes sounds in my head as I read. I can't thank you enough for that.
I was playing my 70's Ibanez George Benson tonight. Haven't done that in awhile and was having fun with it.
How do you like the neck on yours? If you could talk about that a bit I'll try to do some comparison to the 513 neck.
ST...you mean the neck on the GB10 right?... that, IMHO, is one of the best necks of all time! Do you know when Ibanez first put that model out they also made a semi-hollow body version of it with the exact same neck. .. I've always been on the look out for that guitar.
Here's a clip of moi` playing that particular guitar a very long time ago...
This is a song I wrote called In-Sambi-A.
Now, I'm not particularly proud of my playing here... I was trying to be way too smooth jazzy
... holding way back and consequently my time suffers (it pains me to hear that)... but the tone of the guitar through a Roland JC-120 is stellar!
(Oh, in that picture I'm playing a Chet Atkin's Nylon String. Notice the monkey suit... ugh!)
Yes - the GB10.
When you mean a semi-hollow body - do you mean this one? (Mine looks like this). And yes, it's a great neck.
Haven't heard/seen the clip yet.
Now the question is - why would either or both of us, in full possession of our faculties, go and get the PRS Hollowbody II when we already had the GB10s.
I think you mentioned that you had sold yours. I'm still trying to figure out what to do with mine.
PS - I've heard the clip now and I can sense the laid-back almost constrained feel to it. When did you do that?This message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,
Yes... that's the exact same GB10 I'm playing on that clip. I totally wore that guitar out... it needs a fret job like you wouldn't believe!
Oh, and that clip is from somewhere about 1995. A group of us were trying to record a Smooth Jazz Demo and that was a rehearsal- get the levels right take... yet something came up (like the band breaking up) and it was never completed.
When I got this particular gig, the owner wanted a smooth jazz clip to put on the webpage. so I gave him that dated unrefined jam... To my surprise, he put the whole thing on... I thought he was only going to use about 30 seconds of it and then fade it out...
You know... PRS guitars are so seductive... you're right... The GB10 smokes the PRS Hollowbody 11 when it comes to getting that kind of woody tone... what were we thinking...
Just an update on that PRS Hollowbody.
I've been playing it a lot lately with the Model II and T1®. Switching in and out of the PRS Preset and going back to just "Electric Guitar flat with zEQ", I have come to appreciate its voice.
I still have the GB10 and love it for that woody, jazzed out 70's kind of tone, but the PRS for me is much more versatile. In retrospect, I kind of regret any suggestion above that it was anything less than a stellar instrument.
It's a long shot since it's been years since this thread was last active, but I am desperate!
I am considering purchasing a PRS 513 Brazilian rosewood neck on eBay, but there are none for me to try locally. I've scoured the internet and there are only 2 videos on Youtube showing the clean sounds with this instrument:
The first one sounds amazing to my ears, and was the thing that drew me to this particular PRS. It's got a Strat-like chime and sparkle but a fuller, fatter and woodier tone and attack. The second video sounds clunky and dead. The first guy is an amazing player and the second is not, with too many effects, a thin lead and an amp I don't like.
I need to establish whether there is consistency between individual instruments since it is a lot of money to be spending without trying it personally.
Would you be so kind as to send/upload some audio clips of your Brazilian 513 to demonstrate the clean Strat-like sounds? Some open chord arpeggiation would be most helpful. Perhaps through a Fender amp if possible.
Thanks very much!
I'm sorry but I don't think that I can help you here. My 513 left the building a year ago and that was because it had not been getting much play time over the year before that. Musically I was being better served by PRS Single Cut Jumbo (slimline hollowbody).
I can tell you that I felt that mine was an exceptional instrument to play. As for tone, well it's been a long time since I heard it, and I don't have any recordings of it.
Have you tried asking about it in
Vintage Rocker and Birds and Moons forum (I hear that many of the members of the Birds and Moons forum are to be found here)
PRS Forum (the official forum for prsguitars. com)
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