I don't know whether anyone has dealt with this but it has happened to me several times while playing out. I start with a good signal from the guitar and set the input level on Channel 1 just below clipping as directed. I then put the Master volume at about 12 o'clock which works okay for vocals running into channel 3 from a mixer for effects. The problem I get is that I then adjust the Channel 1 volume on the remote and at about 12 o'clock setting start to get clipping. It really cuts down on the headroom for the guitar. I tried raising the master volume and lowering the channel volume which gave me some more room, but still experienced some clipping on the channel volume. I tried reducing the input volume as well. I was running a T5 (with LR Baggs pickup added) into a Para DI then into the Channel 1 input. I suspect one issue is that I have the guitar preamp running into the PARA DI preamp then running into channel 1 which is a third gain stage, but the levels on the channel input were not clipping.
Is the clipping you are hearing an audible clipping, without any "red" on the Bose Remote LED (or on the PS/1 ... although that is hard to watch while you're playing!)? If so, I suspect the clipping is coming from the one of the pre-amps before the Bose Channel 1. The clarity of the Bose sound may be letting you hear clipping which has been happening all along, but you never really heard before, in those pre-amp stages.
One way to test:
Turn the Bose Trim down 1 or 2 "notches" lower than you set previously, then turn the Master and/or Channel volume up to compensate. If you still hear clipping, it's more likely to be happening in either the guitar pre-amp or the PARA DI.
You can check if the PARA DI is the source of clipping by eliminating it from the signal path; you may have to re-adjust the Trim on the Bose (but be sure to back off the Bose Trim so it doesn't show "red" when you are playing those loud crashing chords!).
Thanks. The clipping is not audible. I am seeing red lights on the channel control on the remote. I tried what you suggested and the input did not clip since I had lowered the input gain on channel one. Depending on the acoustics, I often have trouble getting sufficient volume in acoustically difficult venues.
Bose Live Music Team
Unless you are hearing audible headroom reduction i wouldn't worry about the LED flashing red from time to time. If it is glowing red - that is a gain issue.
Don't we all!
One thing I discovered a while back is that my dual pickup acoustic guitar (LR Baggs Duet II, with a piezio pickup and a mic) was often the source of feedback when using the L1; I found I have to turn the blend so the guitar mic is almost off (compared to what I had used pre-Bose), so I'm just using primarily the piezio pickup.
Thanks Dan and Mark,
Mark, would it matter if, after you set your input gain, you turn the Master Volume on the remote up 3/4 or so, then adjust your channel volume to set the playing volume. When I start examining the entire signal chain there are so many "bumps" for gain that I always seem to be trying to find some common solutions. I play in a two guitar duet with two vox. I hate to admit this, but we supplement the vox with powered Mackie SRM350s because we can never seem to get enough Vocal sound before feedback. We run vocals into a Mackie mixer for effects, then into the BOSE PAS (channel 3) and Mackie SRM350s. I know it would be optimum for EACH of us to have our own PAS, but what can I say? My partner is cheap. I have been using the PAS live since it became available, but often wonder if some of my issues aren't "operator driven". Any thoughts?
Hi there David,
I realize that some venues are acoustically challenging to get a decent sound but I sometimes wonder if the feedback problems are sometimes caused by trying to force too much volume from the PAS system. The whole idea of the Bose design is that the volume decreases less over a given distance than a conventional system which means that the initial volume can afford to be quite a bit lower than we would normally play.
It took me quite a while to get used to this. I use a looper so I use a pre-recorded loop as a test which I play before I start and I walk around to check the volume levels. I play mainly in restaurants and bars and oudoor parties and to me if people have to start shouting to each other to have a conversation then I am probably playing too loud.
At these kind of gigs I have never had the master on the remote above 11 o'clock.
I use an acoustic guitar sound on many of the songs I play and even though I have a decent acoustic, (Wechter 3 mic system),it is a lot less hassle to use my Digitech to achieve the acoustic sound using my solid electric. It saves a lot of feedback issues and only the acoustic guitar efficienados would really know the difference.
By the way, the music I play is a wide range but my main interest right now is mixing Celtic and Reggae/African styles. My single PAS B1 package handles it very well although I am thinking of eventually getting an extra B1.
All the best, Gordon.
I agree with you that the sound levels probably are too high. I use a looper wheb I do solo work, so when I am working with my partner, I will try that and let my partner who also sings and plays acoustic, walk around and listen. Good suggestion. I think the mentality is that you have to turn it up louder when you play a bar or club. (Alcohol deadens the hearing?) The first time we used the PAS, I kept the volume low and could actually hear everything. Although we do have some headroom issues with the guitars, the feedback is usually the mics. As you know in these smaller places, you are often forced to be almost on top the BOSE. I often set it off to the side rather than behind us. No matter what, my confidence in the PAS has never been shaken. A tough experience with sound with the BOSE would have been a disastrous experience with a traditional PA. One of the big problems is that we have one PAS for two guitarists/vocalists.
Bose Live Music Team
I beleive you will get your best results for gain before feedback by setting the channel level on the remote as high as possible before bringing the master up. YMMV: Try it both ways.
You shouldn't need the additional speakers in most venues.
Try this setup:
Both vocal mics into mixer. Pan left, then into channel one on the PS1. If mics are the same use recommended preset, if different use 03 or 04.
Both guitars into mixer. Pan right, then into channel two on the PS1. Preset 49 seems to work well for many different acoustic pickups, give it a shot.
Keep PS1 input trims at or very near 0.
Set Mixer gains as suggested by mfg.
Get EQ and volume set to performance level before introducing any effects.
I have had good luck without my para DI with LR Baggs equipped guitars, it's worth a try if keeping it simple is part of the goal.
If guitars don't work well into the same PS1 input / preset, then try one of them direct to channel 3 or 4, with a good preamp with EQ in between of course.
You should be able to get good volume level with both remote channels set just past the 12:00 position and the Master about the same.
When I use my PAS in this manner I tend to keep the vocal channel EQ on the remote pretty much flat, (straight up, 12:00) and use the mixer EQ for tweaking.
I have been know to set the (remote) guitar channel EQ as I would normally do whem working alone, and let the other guitarist work with his preamp and mixer EQ to get his desired tone.
It is amazing how many times I have set my system up for others and use the same settings I would use for myself and they never ask for a single change. I say that, to say this. If you tinker enough to get it right in your rehearsal space, you can take that setup most anywhere and not be too far off from what sounds really good.
Spend a little time solving your vocal volume issues and leave the other speakers at home, it will be time well spent, and paid back many times over with saved time, down the line.
Hope this helps,
Oldghm, I will try your setup again. I tried running a mixer into the remote channel 1 before and got very limited headroom, but it could have been the gain on the input was up about half. Between the mixer gain and the input gain, my overall sound output was limited. Thanks for your suggestions. I constantly tinker with my setup and I do believe simpler is better.
I too will try that set up.
Most of my gigs are either solo acoustic/ vocal or dual acoustic/vocal.
I've typically put the vocals in channel 1 and 2 and guitars in 3 and 4 for the duo.
But when we add our drummer (Roland Handsonic), I submix. Vox panned hard left, instruments panned hard right.
Channel 1 becomes vocal submix and Channel 2 is now instruments.
Clipping typically happens on channel 2 due to the kick drum but I usualy do not have the input trim on 0.
I'll try that next gig.
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