Last week I decided to install a pickup in my C-10BZ Larrivée (pictured to the right).

Today I picked it up at the shop with a new iMix No Cut installed and proceeded to a gig. Actually I was several hours early so I just got set up and got to know the Guitar and the iMix. I play through a Bose L1® Model II (the new one) with the T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine. For any of you who know this gear, I downloaded and installed the LR Baggs ToneMatch® Presets into my T1® just before I headed out the door. It was very simple to find a sound with this combination of gear that sounded great.

During the gig a very busy local musician dropped in and enjoyed a great meal and the music (so he told me). He was really impressed with how natural the Guitar sounded. He made a point of telling me so.

My main Guitar for acoustic gigs for the past ten years has been a Morgan with a Florentine Cutaway, curly maple back and sides. I do a lot of acoustic lead work and this has always allowed me to cut through the mix with a Fishman Acoustic Matrix Under Saddle Transducer. About a year ago I added David Enke's PUTW Quackbuster. This has been working extremely well for me.

Compared to the Morgan, the Larrivée C 10 BZ is about the same size and shape, the neck is just a little narrower and seems to have a narrower radius. The Morgan radius is almost flat and I have it set for really low action and almost no relief. I am a finger style player and this Morgan has been terrific for giving me the room I need to work.

The lovely Larrivée has seen very little play time over the ten years that I've had it because I rehearse with the same instruments and gear as I use when performing. Since there was no pickup in the Larrivée I wasn't playing it out and I wasn't playing it much at all.

The net result was I needed a little time to get used to the Larrivée and the new strings they put on at the shop when they installed the iMix. I guess these are Cleartones.

I normally play John Pearse strings on my acoustics and really like them. The new strings seemed a little noisy. Squeaky by comparison. On the way to the gig I picked up some Elixer 20/80s to try when I take the Cleartones off.

Anyway, after a couple of hours of playing and listening, a three hour gig, and some comments from players who happened by...
The iMix was a good choice. I think that I am going to be very happy with the Guitar and the iMix. I will have to get used to changing between the I-Beam and the Element pickups on the fly. I may switch over to stereo mode and manage the pickups independently in the T1®.

The Guitar sounds phenomenal (except for the squeaky strings). I'll have to see how that works out.

To all, I highly recommend viewing the Lloyd Baggs Interview.

EVERYTHING Lloyd said about what should be possible using his iMix Pickup System and the L1® ToneMatch® Presets came true for me tonight.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,

NICE GUITAR.

(Turn off your flash.)

Hi Ken,

You're right. I need to take a better picture.

I took this in the middle of the night without decent ambient light. I couldn't get a good exposure with the flash turned off.

I'm waiting for an overcast but dry day with good diffuse natural light so I can get outside for a good shot. I've never been able to get a really nice photo of a Guitar indoors.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,

Hey ST,

Thanks for sharing about the imix and the baggs preset. I have an imix installed in my Taylor steel string along with the es system. While at Bose, I ran the es into one L1 and the Baggs into another. It was a pretty cool sound.

I forgot that the imix has a stereo mode. I could send the ibeam to one and the element to another. Hmmm.

What cable do you recommend for doing that. Now that I have bought a model II and still have my classic, I can continue to experiment with the stereo setup.

Thanks, as always, for your help.

Rick

Hi Rick,

I was thinking about you and your iMix and two system setup last night. But I was having too much fun playing to want to stop and dig up the cables. I was going to check this out today.

The LR Baggs iMix manual says we can use an ordinary Insert Cable (1/4" Tip-Ring-Sleeve to two 1/4" Tip-Sleeve cables).

We have some notes about how to split a single channel off to a second L1®. You will need another short 1/4" to 1/4" Tip-Sleeve cable to make it work. (On second thought - not required for this application).

Here are the notes.
T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine / Aux to a Separate System.

quote:

Stereo/mono: This determines whether the output is summed to one mono channel or split into two signals. Stereo mode requires the use of a standard stereo cable or stereo Y cable -- this mode puts the Element on the tip channel and the iBeam on the ring channel. If you use a mono cable in stereo mode, only the Element will be present. This setting is useful for recording each pickup independently, creating separate blends for two different sets of speakers (for example, the house speakers and stage monitors), or applying different effects to each channel. The following section describes how the Remote Control II operates in stereo and mono modes.

11.2 Using the Remote Control II: In mono mode, the volume wheel controls the levels of both channels equally -- rotate the wheel towards the neck to increase the master volume. The mix control determines the amount of each pickup in the overall blend. Rotate the wheel completely towards the neck for 100% iBeam, and completely towards the saddle for 100% Element. The 12:00 position will give both pickups equal output.

For most applications, an equal blend of both sources should provide an effective balance between the iBeam's warmth, fidelity and body sensitivity, and the Element's presence and stability. For recording or intimate venues (especially when soloing), favoring the iBeam may elicit a warmer, richer, more natural tone. When playing in loud environments or with an ensemble, favoring the Element will provide more "cut," which will help bring the guitar through the mix. In stereo mode, each wheel becomes assigned to an individual pickup and controls the output of that source independently. In this instance, the "vol" wheel controls the Element output and the "mix" wheel controls the iBeam.

-- LR Baggs iMix manual

Do you have a separate output jack for your iMix? If so, you could do this (above) but I haven't given any thought to how you use the ES system in conjunction with all of this. You could run it into a separate T1 Channel and let it run out to whatever you are using as the 'Main' output.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,

Hi:

That is a super nice-looking guitar ST! Larrivee is on my list of guitars to look at over the next couple of months as I go searching for another (decent quality) guitar.

If you don't mind me asking twenty questions (well, three actually):
1. What is it about that specific model that you like, that caused you to make the purchase decision (I'm assuming you looked at others)?
2. Anything you don't like about it?
3. Was the pearl inlay a custom job? I haven't seen that model guitar on Larrivee's site.

Thanks,

Stu

Hey ST,

I do have separate output jacks for the es and imix. It's a pretty nice setup to have 3 independent signals available. If I were working with 3 L1s, I would send the element to left, ibeam to right and es to the middle with my vocal.
That should produce a pretty big soundstage don't you think?

I realize I couldn't do that with just the T1, but it could be done going straight from the guitar into one of the L1s.

I'd probably be too lazy to set up that much gear but it would be fun where there's a big enough stage.

Also, thanks for the note about the cable. I bought one at guitar center to try but it was tip-ring-sleeve to one tip and one ring. It obviously didn't work and I gave up on it.
I'll get the right kind next time.

I'll let you know how it all sounds.

Rick

Hi Rick,

quote:

I bought one at guitar center to try but it was tip-ring-sleeve to one tip and one ring.

I just spent a couple of hours exploring this (with a cable like the one you mentioned).

With the switch on the iMix preamp set to Stereo:
The cable marked TIP will give you Element only.
The cable marked RING will give you iBeam only.

On the T1®
Channel 1 - Vocal
Channel 2 - Tip Cable = Element * Preset LR Baggs Element
Channel 3 - Ring Cable = iBeam * Preset LR Baggs iBeam

I routed Channel 3 to Aux and Aux to a second L1®.

In my setup I had the L1®s behind me with the iBeam to my left and the Element on the right (to correspond with the now separate volume controls).

In this arrangement I found the iBeam to be mid-bottom heavy and the Element to be somewhat strident. But that was only when I compared them individually to each other. When I had them both going it was a very pleasant mix.

It was clear that I could spend a lot of time tweaking out the sounds and working on some specific arrangements of songs with different effects on the different pickups, but in the end...

I put the (stereo/mono) switch back to mono and ran the iMix back to a single channel. It sounds really good this way from a single L1® and packing twice the gear for "stereo" is a little more than I want to do.

Now if I was going on tour and had the wherewithal to go "stereo" (great venues and roadies), then I'd probably do it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,

quote:

Originally posted by StuartD:
Hi:

That is a super nice-looking guitar ST! Larrivee is on my list of guitars to look at over the next couple of months as I go searching for another (decent quality) guitar.

If you don't mind me asking twenty questions (well, three actually):
1. What is it about that specific model that you like, that caused you to make the purchase decision (I'm assuming you looked at others)?
2. Anything you don't like about it?
3. Was the pearl inlay a custom job? I haven't seen that model guitar on Larrivee's site.

Thanks,

Stu

Hi Stu,

As you probably know, Jean Larrivée is something of a legend in Canada having kick-started and nurtured the small builder/luthier shops into an industry. Almost every major builder in Canada has some wonderful history with Jean.

No one can quite figure out how he makes such great sounding instruments for the money.

This particular one was part of a very small run Jean did ten years ago to celebrate thirty years in the business. They were all pre-sold before the first one got out the door. I got mine to play it. I wasn't gigging acoustic music back then so it didn't matter that there wasn't a pickup in it. Somehow I got my head turned around a bit and forgot why I got it. Recently I got thinking about things that were Too Good to Play Out and decided to bite the bullet. The folks at Larrivée were terrific. When I asked for a recommendation about a pickup and a place to get it installed they basically said - bring it on home, we'll take care of it.

Jean no longer produces guitars with the fancy headstock inlays (all designed by his wife Wendy), but used Larrivées are incredibly under-priced. The ones with lots of inlay are usually snapped up by other Larrivee owners, but if you are quick you can get one with a nice headstock of a seahorse or other animal. The ones with a human figure or mythical creatures disappear in a heartbeat.

Jean has recently re-introduced the Florentine Cutaway models. I prefer this shape with the sharp "C" to the softer Venetian Cutaways that he produced for several years recently. The model designations that start with "C" are the sharp Cutaway Florentine. The C is usually on the L(arrivee) sized body which is a little bit smaller than a full dreadnought. It is an extremely versatile size. Great for finger style playing with lots of detail, it also sounds really big when strumming.

Most of the acoustic players with whom I have played on a regular basis have a Larrivée. Most of us got ours decades ago and today would probably not part with them for any reason. I think that at any time I have been actively playing, I have had a Larrivée. But with the ebb and flow of life some of those moved on and I still wish that I had kept them. They were all 'keepers', but you know how it goes.

I've played dozens of Larrivées from the most exotic to the most humble offerings. I've never played a bad one. His newer D(readnought) series with satin finishes sound astonishingly good, and these are very modestly priced for what you get. One of my duo partners plays one of these, and it never crosses my mind or his that the one in his hands is anything less than a stellar instrument.

Anything I don't like?
In the lead post I mentioned my Morgan - that has been my main Guitar for acoustic shows for years. It is bright and punchy and works really well in an ensemble setting. It has a slightly wider neck and the fingerboard is nearly flat (radius). It is pretty much perfect for me when playing with other people.

For solo work I think I'll be using the Larrivée. It's taking me a little while to get used to the slightly narrower neck and slight curve in the radius (nothing radical here just different for me). The sound is different than the Morgan. It seems to give me a better balance with my voice.

No - there's nothing I don't like.

Stu, you might want to spend a little time on the Larrivée Guitar Forum. Nice folks.

Did I cover the bases?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,

ST,

Thanks again for all of your hard work and good information. I agree that the sound of the imix in mono to 1 L1 is great and that's what I use most of the time.

We have 2 Model IIs at my church for a youth praise band. I occasionally am involved in a program where those 2 L1s are being used. In that situation I would probably set mine up and use all 3.

I'm with you on keeping it simple. That's one of the reasons I bought the new Model II even though I have had the classic since 2003.
The smaller and lighter power base, the improved sound, and the single cable to the T1 made it just too much to pass up.

I just did 4 nights of playing and singing in a new church for about 400 folks per night. I used the house system and it was ok but I MISSED MY BOSE!
For what I do most of the time, nothing comes close.

BTW, in that church job, I used my own mic and the T1 as my direct box. I used the proper presets for mic and guitar with some zeq and it worked great. The house sound guy said it sounded really good. I guess I wasn't completely Boseless, just clueless on how I sounded out in the audience.

Oh well, there's no business like farming.

See ya,

Rick

Hi Rick,

This kind of thing is no work at all. Just playing, bathed in amazing sound. How could that be work?

quote:

I just did 4 nights of playing and singing in a new church for about 400 folks per night. I used the house system and it was ok but I MISSED MY BOSE!
For what I do most of the time, nothing comes close.

BTW, in that church job, I used my own mic and the T1 as my direct box. I used the proper presets for mic and guitar with some zeq and it worked great. The house sound guy said it sounded really good. I guess I wasn't completely Boseless, just clueless on how I sounded out in the audience.

I would hate to go back to that "clueless" experience, but at least you had the T1®. When I first saw the T1® I had visions of the itinerant minstrel with a Guitar on his back and a T1® in his sack, plugging it in wherever he went.

The ideal would be that s/he would be plugging it into an L1® of course.


I just needed to clarify this statement.

quote:

In this arrangement I found the iBeam to be mid-bottom heavy and the Element to be somewhat strident. But that was only when I compared them individually to each other. When I had them both going it was a very pleasant mix.

Either sound individually would be terrific depending the sound you wanted.

The Element pickup with the Element Preset sounded great, and the iBeam pickup with the iBeam Preset also sounded great, but different. I only noticed the relatively sharp contrast between the two when I was comparing them to each other. Maybe the differences I was hearing were exaggerated because of the difference in my hearing. According to the audiologist, my ears are no longer a factory matched pair.

I did some A/B switching back and forth with others listening. What I got back from them was "they are all a little different, but they all sound really nice". One person said, "I don't know what you want me to tell you." I think this mild expression of exasperation was really "Just shut up and play".

Hi:

quote:

"Did I cover the bases?"

Yes you did. Thankyou.

Stu

Hi ST. What, in your opinion, does the Quackbuster do to the sound of the guitar? Mulling over getting one.

Wayne
http://www.myspace.com/morrisonsmusic

This thread has again made me realize how valuable this forum is.

I have been trying something new with two of my guitars and not having the best of luck. After reading this thread, I switched my iMix to stereo and using a Y cable, sent both the Element and the iBeam into separate LR Baggs PARA DI's then out to channels 2 and 3 on the T1 using the Element preset for the Element Channel and the iBeam preset for the iBeam channel.

The result is the best acoustic tone I have gotten out of my guitars yet! I have absolute control over all aspects of the iMix. I dialed in and saved some great settings for both of the guitars I have with me.

I never would have thought of trying this had it not been for this thread. Thanks everyone for all the info. What a valuable resource.

Hi Wayne,

quote:

Originally posted by captbanjo:
Hi ST. What, in your opinion, does the Quackbuster do to the sound of the guitar? Mulling over getting one.

Wayne
http://www.myspace.com/morrisonsmusic

Sorry it took so long to get back to you.

When I installed the Quackbuster, it seemed to take the quacky edge off the Under Saddle Transducer - I thought it was a Fishman Acoustic Matrix, but after doing a little research it may be a B-Band - but either one - it is completely passive.

Anyway I think the first qualifier to apply is that I hooked up the Quackbuster in parallel with a completely passive Under Saddle Transducer that would get a little piezo-ugly if I was aggressive with the strings. I'm a finger-style player (can't hang onto a pick), so I heard the "quack" when soloing and really working the strings hard. The Quackbuster seemed to tame that ugliness.

It also introduced a little low-end percussive thump. Nothing serious, but when playing aggressively I could hear my fingers hammering on the strings. I dialed that out with the T1® Para EQ at 50 Hz .2 octave - 6dB. I doubt I would have noticed at all when playing live. But I heard it when rehearsing (loud) with two B1s. I normally perform with one.

I put that Quackbuster mid-last year and I don't remember in detail all the ways the sound changed. I do remember being glad that I did it.

I hope that helps Wayne.

ST,
That guitar is amazing. I own two Larrivee's and love them... one is a LV03e.. and the other is their "baby" with the normal sitka spruce top and mahogny (I think) back and sides. The LV03e is what I use when I gig, it has the Fishman preamp w/ an UST.
The only beef I have with the LV03e is that I pop strings CONSTANTLY.. I had my lead guitarist take it to a local luthier (who works on a multitude of bada$$ guitarist's guitars... Derek Trucks, Jimmy Herring, Joseph Patrick Moore, Zac Brown, and of course my two lead player's Nick Johnson and Tim Ussery to name a few)... He told me the neck was set wrong, and that it is causing stress on the strings where they come out of the bridge and over the saddle, because of the angle they come across the saddle. I was both annoyed and relieved to hear that the problem was a manufacturing defect, and not something with my playing style... Anyways, long story short. I'll be buying a new acoustic/electric to perform with soon (I need a backup anyhow).. and I'll have Donald Dunlevy re-do my neck for around $300.

In the mean time, what do you recommend? I love Martin, Taylor, and Gibson guitars... Larrivee too. I haven't played the Taylor's with the ES's too many times, but I do have a friend with one and the L1, and I did a few songs with his setup and wasn't super impressed with the ES pickup system through the L1. What are your thoughts on a good performance worthy acoustic electric? I'm not looking for anything fancy inlay wise, just something that's a good, solid, well built and great sounding guitar both plugged in and unplugged. It seems like if I go Gibson, Martin, or Larrivee I'll be looking at a Fishman UST or pro blend.... if I go Taylor, I'll get the ES.... that's if I buy new (and I probably will) of course. I guess I could always buy just the guitar and have Donald add in a pickup...
Whatcha think?

Hi Patrick,

I am sorry to hear about the neck on your Larrivée.

I have had excellent support from Larrivée Customer Service. Have you tried contacting them about this?

You might also want to ask about this in the Larrivée forum

More later.

ST,
That is a great idea.... I did have an incredible amount of luck by participating on this forum with my L1 issues.
Hats off again, to Bose Customer Support.

Hi Patrick,

I really needed to give this some thought.

quote:

Originally posted by Patrick in Atlanta:
ST,
That guitar is amazing.

It is amazing. The mythology around this is that Jean Larrivée had some wood that he had spirited away for decades that he brought out to do this 30th anniversary edition. Wendy Larrivée did the headstock of course. Luke at Larrivée told me that this represented "... us, looking back over the past 30 years of guitar building".

quote:

What are your thoughts on a good performance worthy acoustic electric? I'm not looking for anything fancy inlay wise, just something that's a good, solid, well built and great sounding guitar both plugged in and unplugged.

I went to your MySpace Page - Pat Sowell Project to try to get a sense of your music. I'm glad that I did. I wish I could hear more of the vocals in the mix on some of the tracks like Temporary Relief Live and Give It Up Live.

Are you looking an acoustic electric to play with the band? My thinking here is that what works in the band situation may be quite different from what you would enjoy playing solo, plugged in or unplugged.

Sounding great solo, plugged in and unplugged is not the challenge as much as getting at Guitar that will also sound great in a bigger mix.

I mentioned a Morgan near the beginning of this thread. It's great instrument in a mix. It really has phenominal presence for doing acoustic and electric/acoustic leads and accents. But when I am doing the solo singer / guitarist gigs, the Larrivée is a much better choice as accompaniment for my voice.

Lately I have been working with a Jazz Violinist. When we have played in band situations, the voicing of my Morgan and his Violin were similar enough that we had to very careful to keep out of each other's way. When I am doing the solo thing and he joins me, the Larrivée is a much better instrument for the arrangements.

quote:

It seems like if I go Gibson, Martin, or Larrivee I'll be looking at a Fishman UST or pro blend.... if I go Taylor, I'll get the ES.... that's if I buy new (and I probably will) of course. I guess I could always buy just the guitar and have Donald add in a pickup...
Whatcha think?

I think it probably depends on how you are going to use the Guitar. Want to tell us more about that?


ST

---

PS - In your profile signature, if you put "http://" in front of
myspace.com/patsowellproject
it will show up as a link in your posts.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,

If you are serious about the Tayor, you can't go wrong with a GS with the ES in it.

I have had great luck with my 615CE through the L1 and the standard Taylor Jumbo setting.

Good Luck.