Hello:

While I realize the sound of my acoustic guitars are way better-sounding through my L1 than they ever were through my previous PA system, they still do not sound exactly like natural-sounding acoustic guitars played without amplification. Since purchasing my L1 - and as much as I've enjoyed and appreciated the improved sound of my guitars through my L1 - I've been looking for a means to reproduce my guitars' natural acoustic tones in a live situation, but I've always run into the problem of feedback through whatever microphone I used to mic the guitar.

While researching ways to help me more accurately reproduce the natural tone of my acoustic guitars in a live performance situation I came across a new microphone offering from DPA: the DPA4009G microphone (this microphone has also been discussed briefly on this forum, somewhere). Pricewise, it's on par with the popular Neuman KMS105 vocal mic that is used and well-liked by many on this forum.

I finally bit the bullet and bought one! I haven't had a lot of time to play around with it but what little I have been able to work with it I believe I can say it is going to be a keeper!

For those folks not familiar with the DPA4099G it's a high quality condenser microphone voiced especially for acoustic guitar. DPA claims it will reproduce the natural tone of an acoustic guitar in a live performance situation. Those interested can read about it here: DPA 4009G Guitar Microphone

This was the main reason I bought it, to see if I could improve my live acoustic guitar tone to get it as close as possible to a natural-sounding acoustic guitar that doesn't sound as though it's being amplified. I also bought it with a view to using it for recording purposes since it's supposed to be of recording quality caliber.

My acoustic guitars sound really good through my L1 but they do not sound 100% as they do played without amplification. I want them, if possible, to sound as good - played through my L1 - as they sound played without amplification. Based on the little testing I've been able to do with the microphone up to this point I do believe this microphone is going to make that happen for me. At least I'm very optomistic!

As part of my initial testing for checking out its use as a recording microphone, I have used it to record some tunes on my PC (using Tracktion software) and I'm very impressed at the sound as played back through my L1 - just like listening to a natural-sounding, well-recorded acoustic guitar off a CD!

The big test for the live sound will come in two weeks. I get to use it live for a couple of outdoor performances...and I can't wait! I'm already sold on the sound quality. My concern is only that of sufficient volume before feedback; something I cannot easily test for in my home, out of respect for my neighbors.

For the upcoming live performances I'm prepared to mix the microphone sound with my guitar's LR Baggs Dual Source pickup if I have to (as DPA's documentation suggests if volume levels warrant). Intital testing of this through my T1, at low volume levels, does produce a noticeable improvement over what I currently have so I would be willing to compromise there if I have to.

In any case, based on my inital tests so far, I have high hopes for this microphone with my Bose L1 and am really looking forward to trying that combination in a live performance situation in the next couple of weeks!

My only minor whine, so far, is that:
1. The cable that connects between the microphone and the included XLR connector, and the mounting paraphernalia used to mount the microphone to the guitar, are very delicate (and I'm a klutz).
2. You have to disassemble it each time to get it back in its storage box. A slightly larger box would have solved that problem. Instead you get a slightly padded bag to contain the assembled microphone/mounting bracket, etc. As delicate (and expensive) as this microphone is...I don't trust the slightly padded bag.

But if the microphone performs as well as I'm hoping it will...I'll learn to deal with the delicateness of the thing, and the shortcomings of the storage box.

Stu

Hi Stu,

I'm excited for you.

Can't wait to hear how this works out for you.

quote:

Originally posted by StuartD:
This was the main reason I bought it, to see if I could improve my live acoustic guitar tone to get it as close as possible to a natural-sounding acoustic guitar that doesn't sound as though it's being amplified.

This is an interesting and an illusive goal.

Until the L1® I only had two experiences of hearing my guitars.
- from the top while playing
- amplified and bouncing around in some sonic vortex

Now, hearing my guitars through my L1®s is a different experience and I really like it. People who hear it tell me that they like it. Whether or not it sounds like my guitars without amplification isn't really on my radar. That's because, to my thinking, an amplified guitar (no matter how you do it) becomes a different instrument.

So I hope that this microphone gives you what want. It sure looks like an interesting mounting system. It looks lightweight and it seems to solve the problem of keeping the right angle and distance from the microphone.

As for your point about having to disassemble it between shows, what I have done with gear like this, is just get a larger, sturdier case that would allow me to leave it assembled even in transit.

Hi Stu,

I've heard very good things about this microphone from a close friend that now works for DPA. I'm curious, when you use it with the L1 system, are you adding any EQ?

Ken

Hello,

Ken wrote:

quote:

"I'm curious, when you use it with the L1 system, are you adding any EQ?"

Yes.

I have tried various settings including the basic "Flat, vocal zEQ" setting. So far I find that using no EQ at all makes my guitar sound as though I'm playing it in a box. And the bass tends to 'ring' for a longer time period than I'd like (I'm not familiar with all the terminology used to describe less-than-perfect sounds so I'm not sure if 'ring' is the correct terminology). Each note has a certain length of time before it disappears completely. The bass notes tend not to die off as quickly as the other notes so I have to reduce the bass frequency a little.

Placement of the microphone in relation to the guitar's soundhole seems to make a difference as well. Some more experimentation, and trying all sorts of various settings, is in order I think.

I'm still trying to find out which Tonematch setting I prefer. So far it is the Neuman KMS105 selection with some additional minor teaking of EQ.

I need to make more tests once I have put fresh strings on the guitar. My main guitar sounds its best, to my ears, after a fresh set of strings have been on for about a week. I plan to change the strings next weekend and then I'll make more thorough tests to see what I end up liking in the way of final settings, etc.

I expect I'll end up with a setting for fresh strings and another setting for dead strings. Dead strings gives me a different sound (not necessarily a bad sound, just different) so I expect to have two settings once I'm done testing.

For straight in recording the same Neuman KMS setting sounds great! I can only imagine what it's going to sound like with fresh strings on my guitar!

ST wrote:
"Can't wait to hear how this works out for you."

"quote:
Originally posted by StuartD:
This was the main reason I bought it, to see if I could improve my live acoustic guitar tone to get it as close as possible to a natural-sounding acoustic guitar that doesn't sound as though it's being amplified."

"This is an interesting and an illusive goal."

ST, I meant to say "...as close as possible to a natural-sounding acoustic guitar that doesn't sound as though it's being amplified with a transducer pickup".

I would like my guitar to sound the same through my L1 as it does in my living room without any amplification. I realize that's easier said than done, and I expect I'm in for some surprises as I try to (hopefully) make that happen.

I have been to several (mostly bluegrass) concerts where the acoustic guitars sound fantastic amplifed...they sound just like acoustic guitars, except louder than normal. I always try to find out what mics are being used (and what processing gear) but it's not always possible to find that out. But I've heard it with my own ears so I'm hopeful that I can duplicate the same sort of thing with my L1, etc.

My L1 does a great job with the transducer pickup I use so I'm hopeful I can improve the sound a bit more using this new microphone.

As you say, it is an interesting and elusive goal. But, since I no longer have to worry about a lousy sound on stage (the L1 made that go away)...I have some free time!

Stu

Aahhhh... Grasshoppa! When you find the holy grail please to let me know!

A man after my own madness Stu. I know exactly what you're aiming for and I have been looking at this mic. I think Acoustic Guitar recently reviewed it. It will be interesting to hear your reports. Plan to post any video?

I'm guessing that the guitar/mic holder is sold separately? How about the cable for the mic and pickup combined? I was thinking combining the mic with a good pickup might be good. I would also be interested in your feedback (as in mic) experiences.

Hello Wayne,

quote:

Originally posted by captbanjo:
"Aahhhh... Grasshoppa! When you find the holy grail please to let me know!

A man after my own madness Stu. I know exactly what you're aiming for and I have been looking at this mic. I think Acoustic Guitar recently reviewed it. It will be interesting to hear your reports. Plan to post any video?

I'm guessing that the guitar/mic holder is sold separately? How about the cable for the mic and pickup combined? I was thinking combining the mic with a good pickup might be good. I would also be interested in your feedback (as in mic) experiences."

Video? Not sure. If I get a decent recording from my gig on Sept 12th, or on Sept 19th - and if I can ever figure out how to post a video, then I will. Otherwise it'll be me describing what I heard.

The microphone comes with the microphone holder thingy that clamps on to the guitar. The cable for the microphone and pickup combined is extra (about $100 extra, I believe). I am looking into getting that because the microphone cable is so small in diameter (read delicate) that I'm afraid I'm going to end up breaking it off the microphone at some point. If I rig up the combo cable somehow I'm hoping it'll make the thing a little more robust. If not, it'll at least keep the cabling neater.

After my gigs I'll be posting a report. So far, just using it in the house, it sounds great!

Stu

Edit: I found out that the DPA combination microphone/pickup cable will cost me about $200.00! So I'll be managing without it for the time being.

I heard yesterday that tomorrow's (outdoor) gig is supposed to be rained out, according to the weather forecast folks. Rain date is the following Saturday, so might not have a report until next week.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: StuartD,

Stu, I sent you a private message.

I got your message Wayne, and have responded.

I realize I never did provide the report on the DPA microphone in this thread (though I mentioned it in another thread elsewhere on the forum).

To summarize I will say that I'm well pleased with the DPA4099G and am confident it will work out just fine for the majority of live work I do, based on the style of music I play and the venues I'm likely to find myself in for that style of music (no loud bars, for example)...and as long as I can use my L1.

Just like proper gain staging with the L1, microphone placement is critical for the best sound, and that can be discovered by some simple testing ahead of time.

Because it's quite an expensive microphone I wouldn't feel comfortable advising someone to 'just go out and buy one' based on what I have to say, but I'm confident that if used with an L1/T1 combination it would be money well spent, etc. And it's a great recording microphone as well, as it turns out!

I always believed that I had a pretty decent acoustic sound with my Martin OM28 and its LR Baggs Dual Source pickup, through my L1. After using the DPA4099G I can't believe how much better of an acoustic sound I'm now getting! There's little comparison really.

It's a bit like going to a really nice restaurant - really enjoying the quality of the food - then wondering how you ever enjoyed the burgers you ate on a regular basis before that!

Stu

Stu, I'm sure I'm heading that way for two good (to me) reasons: I'm an acoustic sound junkie; I think the DPA might be an ideal way to mic by banjo on the occasions I use it. Right now I'm using an SM 57 and have tried other mics but the feedback and need for close proximity to the banjo head is frustrating.

If anyone is interested in this mic, I've found a place that at least temporarily is offering it for forty-five dollars ($555) below every other place I've searched:

http://sweetwaveaudio.com/sale...crophones/4099-g.php

If you use them, I recommend calling instead of internet. Better results IMO.

I am so glad I found this thread! I bought mine early this week. I finally had a chance to test it out at home. My rig is a Goodall concert jumbo with K&K Powermix Trinity (Pure, UST, and Mic) into T1 and Bose Model II.

At first I was a little disappointed that I didn't think it did much better than my internal mic. I was trying to A/B the 4099 with only the internal mic. The K&K mic did great. Good gain before feedback. But what it's not doing is giving me the true guitar sound. The 4099 really was representing the guitar very well. If I just listened to the guitar, I noticed the dead strings, (way over due for a change). When I turned up the volume (eq set flat) I was hearing essentially the same sound.

I did experiment with literally 100 different positions for the mic but I seem so far to like it best on the upper bout, top side, bent down over the fret board near the 14th fret but aimed toward the sound hole, almost across the top of the guitar. I figure there will be some learning curves with this mic. I have already ordered the DPA double cable which is really a Mogami cable and ordered the T1 power supply from Bose so I can just use the T1 when necessary. Blending the mic with the pick up is a dream.

I hope to keep up on your findings and share experiences. If anyone knows if it effects the performance of the 4099 mic if you run a 15 volt phantom power supply versus the required 48 volt. Let me know.