Hello,

Yesterday I had the opportunity to run the sound for a small musical event that lasted about four hours. I had the opportunity to use two Bose L1s (the Classic); mine, and a loaner that belonged to the person who asked me to help with the sound (he contacted me though this forum a little while back). I ended up doing the sound myself...and thoroughly enjoyed it to the point where I would seriously consider providing sound for musical events if I could use Bose L1s, etc.

I realize that the subject of using more than one L1 has come up on this forum on several occasions and I, like some others, have thought it might be a good idea to try using multiple L1s where warranted but, for various reasons, have not yet been able to justify it. Well I can say that as much as I like my Bose L1...I'm a convert all over again after having used two!! Without a doubt it was some of the finest sound I have heard at a musical event in a looooooong while! And it didn't hurt that I provided that sound!

It wasn't perfect sound for a couple of reasons, but it was almost perfect to my ears; and I'm extremely critical of live sound quality these days, which is why I don't go to too many live sound events anymore - as good of a quality as much of the equipment is, that is used at many of these events (all the latest and greatest, etc) I find the resulting sound to frequently consist of some instruments that are too loud in the mix, muddy bass, and vocals no one can hear.

Well we heard the vocals yesterday - very clearly. It was almost a perfect blend of the instruments and vocals, and there was no muddy bass anywhere. I say almost because there were some things I would have liked to have done differently had I been in the position to make it happen.

The main act was a six-piece band: drums; bass; piano; and three guitar/vocal combos. Everyone but the bass player came into the mix and out to the Bose L1s. I had the L1s situated about twelve to fifteen feet apart and about four feet, or so, behind the drummer and bassist; and about eight to ten feet behind the vocalists. The piano player was situated between those two extremes, and off to one side closer to the L1 on the right as looking at the band from the audience position. None of the musicians were right on top of either of the L1s.

I used my Mackie Onyx 1220 (12-Channel) mixer and my Bose T1. Set up as follows:
Onyx Mixer
Ch1: Acoustic Guitar (some model of Taylor with expression system)
Ch2: Piano Vocal (SM58)
Ch3: Electric guitar player's vocal (SM58)
Ch4: Acoustic guitar player's vocal (SM58)
Ch5/6: Not used
Ch7/8: Drums (Roland electronic kit with RH & LH feed from the drummer's amplifier.
Ch9: Electric Piano
Ch10: Not used
Ch11: Input from the T1 Tonematch
Ch12: Not used
Tape player connected to the phono inputs for background music for one of the acts.

Bose T1
Ch1: Electric Guitar #1
Ch2: Electric Guitar #2
Ch3: CD Player (Music backup for one of the acts)

Here's why I thought things were not perfect, and what I would/should have done differently.
The bassist, although not plugged in to the mixers, remained quite well-balanced throuought the two-hour set. Had he been in the mix I would have brought him out a little more, but it was acceptable otherwise.
The drummer started off fitting in well in the mix but must have increased his volume from his dedicated drum amplifier, as the set went on, because I found that I had to keep lowering his volume in the mix. It got to the point where I couldn't lower any more and he was still too loud. As he was behind the other musicians and sitting about two feet away from his behemoth-of-an-amplifier I don't see how he could have possibly been able to hear a clear mix, so wouldn't know he was too loud, etc.

This made things difficult when it came to bringing out the vocals. I'm no sound expert - and the more I study sound reinforcement, the more confusing and mind-boggling it becomes - but, if/when I'm in charge of the sound I always want to set up a mix entirely around the vocals. It's the vocals that I can never hear clearly at many live music events I've attended so I make a point to make the vocals the main focus of the overall sound. Everything else gets adjusted against the vocals, etc. I don't know if this is considered the correct approach but it seems to make sense to me; and it did solve the problem of not being able to clearly hear the vocals.

Everything was fine until I could no longer lower the volume of the drums. That's when the vocals started to disappear into the mix. It wasn't too bad, all things considered, and the vocals could still be heard quite clearly, but not as I would have liked.

Also, when I listen to vocals it helps if I'm listening to songs I've never hear before (as was the case in this situation); hearing songs that are familiar to me can bias me into thinking the vocals are coming across clearly simply because I know what the lyrics are supposed to be, etc. I had never heard any of the songs performed and I could clearly understand the lyrics, etc.

Some small amount of compression on two of the vocalists would have been nice as well but I didn't bring my compressor with me because I wasn't sure it was of good quality (compared to the Bose/Mackie equipment). I should have put those two vocalists through the T1 and used the T1 compression. Lesson learned!

Two other minor issues came up (fortunately I was prepared):
1. The issue where someone couldn't quite hear themselves so they asked me turn them up. I turned everyone else down instead, otherwise it would have just escalated when the next person couldn't hear themselves, etc. I've no doubt the volume on stage was nowhere near what the musicians were used to hearing for that size venue.
2. The musicians were not used to hearing themselves through Bose L1s (they are used to monitors in the front, etc) and I could clearly detect some apprehension from a couple of the musicians.

I also panned the musicians in the mix so that we had some stereo separation into the two L1s. Vocals towards the center, and I split the guitars and piano towards the right and left sides, etc. The two drum feeds were panned slightly left and right, etc.

By the end of the two-hour set everyone was amazed that they could hear themselves so clearly.

Anyway, the sound overall was outstanding and If I could use L1s all the time - and could afford the other peripheral equipment I'd want to have on hand - I'd seriously consider running sound for live music events that could benefit from the L1 approach. Three of the band's musicians came up and said how much they enjoyed the sound, commenting that they typically were used to not hearing themselves so clearly. The acoustic guitar player and the electric guitar vocalist both said they were not used to hearing their vocals (and guitar, in the case of the acoustic guitar player) so clearly!

I was supposed to perform as well but decided not to as my music style and that which was presented were quite different, so I opted not to perform as I was sure not too many people would be interested in my music style. Primarily I wanted to test my new DPA4099G guitar microphone. I did that and it sounded fantastic! The venue had a seating capacity of about 600-700 people (estimated; I didn't count the seats).

There was no feedback from the DPA microphone. Surprisingly I found a nice sound by dialing in a combination of the microphone and pickup, though the microphone held its own when the pickup wasn't used.

I get to use my L1/DPA microphone combo live, in an outdoor music event next Saturday so I'm really looking forward to that.

Stu

This message has been edited. Last edited by: StuartD,

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Originally posted by StuartD:
I had the opportunity to run the sound for a small musical event...two Bose L1s

Sounds like fun!

quote:

Well I can say that as much as I like my Bose L1...I'm a convert all over again after having used two!! Without a doubt it was some of the finest sound I have heard at a musical event in a looooooong while!

Wait til you get to do it with four!

quote:

It wasn't perfect sound for a couple of reasons

Only two? You did amazingly well.

quote:

I had the L1s situated about twelve to fifteen feet apart and about four feet, or so, behind the drummer and bassist; and about eight to ten feet behind the vocalists.

Sounds about right...you wouldn't need any more distance than that, for sure, less might work too.

quote:

Here's why I thought things were not perfect...The bassist...had he been in the mix I would have brought him out a little more, but it was acceptable otherwise.

And risked the beginning of a volume war? He seems like a sensible guy.

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The drummer started off fitting in well in the mix but must have increased his volume from his dedicated drum amplifier.

Could you/did you ask him to turn it down, and tell him why?

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This (drum volume) made things difficult when it came to bringing out the vocals.

It is usually drummers or an electric guitarist. It could have been worse.
A drummer will usually turn down if you ask him too, I've found it more difficult with guitarists.
I hear "I can't get my tone" or a flat "no", a lot when asking them.

quote:

I'm no sound expert but, if/when I'm in charge of the sound I always want to set up a mix entirely around the vocals...it seems to make sense to me.

You are right. But many a pro sound man will tell you the snare drum needs to be just as loud as the vocal.
I've been told that a half dozen times.
I wonder why?

quote:

Everything was fine until I could no longer lower the volume of the drums...the vocals could still be heard quite clearly, but not as I would have liked.

Volume building over the set is typical, but if the clarity is still there, you did your job.

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Two other minor issues came up (fortunately I was prepared):
1. The issue where someone couldn't quite hear themselves so they asked me turn them up. I turned everyone else down instead

Good thinking.

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2. The musicians were...used to monitors in the front, etc) and I could clearly detect some apprehension from a couple of the musicians.

Apprehension? You were blessed. Outrage and refusal are much worse.

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By the end of the two-hour set everyone was amazed that they could hear themselves so clearly.

Pretty amazing considering the number of players on stage.

All in all, your first time reads like a huge success...and with only two systems.
I did a sextet with four systems a while back, and had some difficulty getting the lead vocal out.
I wound up daisy chaining him thru two T1s into two systems and cured it.
You did much the same with your *stereo* feed.

Thanks for that in-depth report, it brings back memories of how I felt during those gigs.
What's really interesting to see it work with only two systems.
It would have scared me to go into that big a band with only two.
However, the drummer's own system, was a big plus for lightening the load on the L1s.
Too bad he overindulged a bit, but glad to see it all worked out.

quote:

Originally posted by Drumr:
"All in all, your first time reads like a huge success...and with only two systems.
I did a sextet with four systems a while back, and had some difficulty getting the lead vocal out.
I wound up daisy chaining him thru two T1s into two systems and cured it.
You did much the same with your *stereo* feed.

Thanks for that in-depth report, it brings back memories of how I felt during those gigs.
What's really interesting to see it work with only two systems.
It would have scared me to go into that big a band with only two.
However, the drummer's own system, was a big plus for lightening the load on the L1s.
Too bad he overindulged a bit, but glad to see it all worked out."

Thanks for the comments.

There's no question in my mind that luck had a large part to play. I was amazed at the sound quality with the two L1's (compared to a single L1). To my ears it was light years ahead of using a single L1 (which I'm convinced would not have worked at all with so many musicians playing simultaneously). Perhaps if I ran sound at several events I would start to realize very quickly that, in fact, more than two L1s would be needed. It just was such an improvement over a single L1 (and I could hear everyone clearly) that I was impressed what a difference the additional L1 made. The musicians noticed it. Several of them made comments along the lines of being able to actually hear themselves play, etc.

It's a bit like going out to dinner for a nice meal. Your dining standard tends to revolve around the nicest place you last had dinner. Now your next meals are compared to the last good one, etc. And the level keeps increasing. I'm sure, given enough time, I'd want to end up with one L1 per musician, etc.

I think the drummer did a good job overall. I really think he didn't know he was as loud as he was because he was sat right next to his behemoth of an amplifier so I'm sure he wasn't hearing what everyone else was hearing out of the L1's.

They were all a cooperative group to be honest. I was expecting the worst because I'd been warned that they wanted to use their monitors, etc. But they were fine, all things considered.

I did not ask the drummer to turn his volume down for two reasons:
1. He was not overly loud, only a little bit loud, and since I could still make out the vocals I decided to let it go.
2. I'm not always good at diplomacy so am never sure what to follow up with after the word 'No' enters my ears. And I didn't know the guy well enough so didn't know how he'd take me asking him to lower his volume, etc.

That's the first time I've run sound on such a scale and I must say I did enjoy it, even though I say luck had much to do with it because I was missing some peripheral gear I would have preferred to have on hand, etc.

Stu

I'm the guy who hosted the event that Stu is speaking about. It was amazing that you had 6 musicians and a sound man who never worked together beofore. There was no time for rehearsal - just a quick sound check and they were off. Stu did a fantastic job and I'm so glad he was there. I would not have been able to make all of that gear sound that good. All I had to do was set up my L1 and then I was the "Go For". I got to sit in the audience for the entire performance. I agree with everything Stu said about the sound i.e. the drummer the bassist and vocals. There was no ear fatigue. The music was lound but not too loud. I could hear everyone really well. In fact I would often catch my self listening to individual instruments throughout the performance instead of the band as a whole. After the event was over, I got to play my Yamaha Motif ES connected to two L1s in stereo. I think I'm in love. Most notebly of course is that the piano is worlds better with two L1s, the separation was very nice. Also, there was much more clarity on my home made sequences. This is all I have been talking about for the past few days. I have put an addition L1 at the top of my birthday and Christmas list. I am on a mission to get my church to buy us a second one. Someone made the comment a while back that standing in front of an L1 the sound wraps around you like a blanket. That is especially true with 2 L1s. I'm dreaming of the day when I can have that sound every Sunday wrapping around me like a warm blanket. Currently our group is 6 to 7 vocalists singing to my sequences through 1 L1 classic and I think we're pushing the limit. In fact the day after the event we were back to our regular service using 1 L1 and it just seemed like something was missing. This is a sound I was satisfied with... that is before I heard 2 L1s together. I thank Stu for doing such a good job, and I jokingly thank him for costing me a lot of money because I know eventually I'm going to have to spring for another L1.