My band Happy Pants played at a friend's wedding last night. The reception hall was in the basement of the hotel so I used the complimentary dollies and wheeled in my L1 gear.

There was also a DJ who was going to play stuff during dinner and between our sets. As luck would have it he had loaded in some of his stuff when the elevator broke. So rather than having him continue to load in his heavy speakers I told him he could run lines to Channel 4/5 of one of my Bose systems. I had brought 5 B1's, one for my guitar and vocals and 4 to go with the L1 that was running bass, kick and the other vocals (and now the DJ).

Now it gets better, it was a good hour drive to this gig and I was missing one cable for the B1's so ultimately I was down to 2 for the bass stuff and one for me. (I didn't want to risk figuring out how to run 3).

It wasn't the biggest reception room maybe just a bit bigger than your average bar but the set up even with only 3 b1's was plenty. The DJ was blown away by the sound of the L1. He was cranking it and it sounded amazing. The DJ finished the night and except for the one L1 system that I had to wait around for the band packed and loaded out our stuff while the DJ provided more music. I have to say the sound blew me away too.
Luckily the hotel got someone to come and fix the elevator prior to us loading out, but I couldn't believe how good the sound was as I walked all the way down this long hall to the elevator. It was still clear and even sounding.
This experience kind of made me wonder what kind of bass people are looking for when they say the B1's aren't enough because this was kicking out the bass something fierce, in fact my bass player told me at one point he went and lowered the bass eq a bit because in his mind it was too much and didn't sound balanced. I tended to agree but left it originally because I have come to the belief partly from these forums that DJ's like lots of bass. The point is even with only 2 B1's the bass was moving my shirt when I got within 10 feet and the music filled the room beautifully.
It's not that I regret buying the extra B1's and the A1 I'm sure they will come in handy but I think I underestimated how much you can get out of 2.
It was kind of a neat learning experience, and another great night thanks to Bose.

Hi Litesnsirens,

Sounds like a fun gig, and a great opportunity to experience the L1®s in a different way.

quote:

Originally posted by Litensirens:
I was missing one cable for the B1's so ultimately I was down to 2 for the bass stuff and one for me.

Some people pack the B1 cables in the space under the handle of the B1. I use Model IIs most of the time and I keep two B1 cables in the Model II bag.

quote:

Originally posted by Litensirens:
I didn't want to risk figuring out how to run 3.

You should never run more than 2 B1s directly off one Power Stand.

At the very least, if you start really cranking the volume the Power Stand will start shutting down and restarting. Worst case... you damage the Power Stand.

Hi ST, thanks for the ideas regarding the B1 cables. In each of my power stand cases, I have two B1 cables, the T1 J45 cable and the AC cord. that seems like the limit. I thought I had the last cable in one of my equipment bags but was obviously mistaken. I may see how it fits in the B1 handle OR just make are it's actually in my equipment bag for sure...LOL

As far as the idea for running 3 B1's, I would never try to run all three from the power stand. I would either run one from the power stand and two from the A1 or vice versa, I couldn't mathematically figure it out in my head (under the pressure of trying to get set up before the wedding party arrived) but it was seeming to me that the Bose bass compensation schemes for adding B1's would be troublesome for 3 B1's either way I did it. So I just played it safe and went with 2.

Hi Litesnsirens. I love the name of the band,"Happy Pants".

Respect,
Col. Andy

quote:

I think I underestimated how much you can get out of 2.

I have recently rediscovered how much 2-B1s can offer, like you, after being short a B1 cable...

quote:

but it was seeming to me that the Bose bass compensation schemes for adding B1's would be troublesome for 3 B1's either way I did it.

We tried three first, one off the power stand, and two from the A1, but it was not as full and warm as four.
Same result with two on the PS, and one on the A1.
I didn't think 3-B1s sounded enough (any) different than 2, so I packed up the A1 and extra B1.
By the end of the gig, we had all but forgotten that we were running with only two for the drums and bass guitar.
Since then, I have gone to using only two most of the time at our typical small venues.

Using only two isn't quite a warm and "round" a kick sound as using four, but it is fine now that I'm used to it.
Everyone I've asked, band and otherwise, has said they don't really hear the difference.
So, if no one else notices, why go to the trouble?

Looks like you might have hooked another DJ on the L1!

Thanks for the replies guys!
Col. Andy, a lot of people have mixed feelings about the name of our band. One thing is for sure, it let's people know right away that we don't take ourselves too seriously. We think it's funny so we stick with it. Thanks for being on the positive side of the fence.

Drumr, yes the DJ would love to get one of these systems, he has been curious about them but never really heard them until last night. I think there will be a system or two in his future.
Now here is a drum question for you, our drummer uses a Taye Go Kit. We mic the kick with a D112 and use the appropriate T1 setting. I put a kick port in the resonant head. We still sometimes struggle trying to get a big kick sound out of a little kick drum. Have you ever used one and do you have any ideas EQ-wise? Would you put anything inside to dampen the ring?

quote:

Originally posted by Litesnsirens:
Now here is a drum question for you, our drummer uses a Taye Go Kit. We mic the kick with a D112 and use the appropriate T1 setting. I put a kick port in the resonant head. We still sometimes struggle trying to get a big kick sound out of a little kick drum. Have you ever used one and do you have any ideas EQ-wise? Would you put anything inside to dampen the ring?

Hate to butt in - but we recently talked our drummer into using my Taye Go-kit at a little marina gig - where we had planned on doing kind of a lower key thing than our normal full blown rock band thing. We didn't mic the bass drum at all - and we were all thrilled with the sound. There was one normal sized bath towel inside the drum.

I have a couple of videos from that show (hand held kodak zi8 with a small sony mic) on my youtube channel that show the drums fitting well into the mix while we are doing the low key thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR7kdOinFlQ

Then at some point - the crowd goaded us into playing one of our normal rocking crowd favorites and we turned it up (go to 4:50 in the video to skip the nonsense)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NliO50BiM80

The Taye Go-kit is really awesome for what it is - and you may be able to mic and tweak some - but depending on what you are interested in, generally - if you want a big drum sound from an accoustic drum - you may need to use a big accoustic drum.

Always glad to have people chime in, John. Thanks for your perspective. We use the Tayes because we often play places with not a lot of stage room and our drummer can fit them in his car. He wasn't happy with the sound we were getting. I pointed out that it is a pretty small drum to try to get a big sound out of. Eventually I was able to eq in some oomph but there was a bit of an overtone (ring) creeping in. That's why I was wondering about putting something in the drum to dampen it a bit. Or perhaps it just needed to be re-tuned a bit. Our drummer has been happy with the kick sound at some previous gigs so it could be the room or a number of other factors. I'm willing to try whatever to help get a consistently good kick sound.

quote:

Originally posted by Litesnsirens:
Always glad to have people chime in, John. Thanks for your perspective. We use the Tayes because we often play places with not a lot of stage room and our drummer can fit them in his car. He wasn't happy with the sound we were getting. I pointed out that it is a pretty small drum to try to get a big sound out of. Eventually I was able to eq in some oomph but there was a bit of an overtone (ring) creeping in. That's why I was wondering about putting something in the drum to dampen it a bit. Or perhaps it just needed to be re-tuned a bit. Our drummer has been happy with the kick sound at some previous gigs so it could be the room or a number of other factors. I'm willing to try whatever to help get a consistently good kick sound.

Have you considered a trigger and a cheap drum module?

I actually like the idea of a complete electronic kit. He has a set of Roland TD4's but he isn't crazy about the sound of them. The other issue is that since we have managed to get a good kick sound in the past (one that HE likes), he's determined that we can find it again.
My son is considering buying a an Alesis DM10 studio kit, maybe that will have better sounds in it, you can load in 3rd party samples, so it sounds pretty flexible. As soon as superior drummer offers a sound library for the DM10 I'm sure that will be the answer. He can use his kit and just borrow my sons DM10 module.
Not that the go kit looks all that rock and roll but our drummer feels it looks a lot more rock and roll than electronics.
I can't call him picky or make a joke about drummers, I think we guitar players are probably more picky about our tone.

quote:

Originally posted by Litesnsirens:
The other issue is that since we have managed to get a good kick sound in the past (one that HE likes), he's determined that we can find it again.

I can't call him picky or make a joke about drummers, I think we guitar players are probably more picky about our tone.

Lites,

Keep in mind that what the drummer hears from behind an acoustic kit is worlds different than what is actually present in the mix out front. This is hard to imagine if you have never played drums in a band. How does it sound to you and the other band members out front?

IMO - all of the members have a responsibility to do what is right for the output of the band - not what sounds great to the drummer from behind the set or the guitar player standing off axis from his amp.

Neither the guitar players in our band fuss about our individual tone. We are way more concerned about finding a spot in the mix where each of us can enhance the band's musical output. Sometimes the bass player will let me know that my freqencies are approaching the area were I am covering up some of the bass work - so I make an adjustment. I love to hear his bass work - that is why he is in the band.

Good luck finding your solution - I'd recommend making decisions from out front though.

I was hoping that was the case, John. We actually took turns playing with the eq hitting the kick drum and listening out front. But he still wasn't keen on the sound. Like I said before we got to something he could live with but he wasn't over-joyed. So I was just looking for some tricks that others may have learned.

BTW John, thanks for the you tube vids. Great job on the songs, you're right they worked great in the mix on both songs. Loved the tambourine player.

quote:

I put a kick port in the resonant head. We still sometimes struggle trying to get a big kick sound out of a little kick drum. Have you ever used one and do you have any ideas EQ-wise? Would you put anything inside to dampen the ring?

Hey Litesnsirens

I find that I first have to get a big kick sound out of my drum before micing it. Once I’ve achieve my sound, I would then put my D112 outside the kick to the right of the kick port aiming at the floor tom. The entire bass enhancement produced by the Kickport is produced outside of the Kick drum so putting the mic on the inside negates the effect of the Kickport . At least that has been my experience.

I hope that helps.

Edit: PS:

quote:

Would you put anything inside to dampen the ring?

I use an Evans EQ pad just touching the reso head (or whatever head is causing the ring) but a small pillow about the same size will do. My experience is that there should always be some sort of dampening inside a kick drum if you are micing it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Starvin,

Thanks Starvin, I'll try that mic placement. Unmic'd the kickport made a dramatic improvement on the sound of the kick drum. We had the D112 about 2" outside the hole pointing directly in.

Hi Litesnsirens

quote:

We had the D112 about 2" outside the hole pointing directly in.

The distance sounds right but I usually set the D112 off axis. Pointing directly into the port or directly at the beater tends to give my kick more attack and less body. I’ve noticed that L1 products are less forgiving to bad tuning or bad mic placement.

It’s probably because the L1 series reproduce almost exactly what you put into them. I have no doubt your drummer will find his sound. It’s just going to take a bit more tweaking than normal. The good thing is once he gets his sound, the kit will sound killer with or without the microphones.

Looking forward to hearing how this turns out.

I wanted to chime in on this thread and give some points of view on my end. Last night I did probably the unthinkable in the realm of using the L1 Compacts. I used them in a room as Front Of House (FOH)speakers. I mic'd the lead guitar amp, acoustic guitar amp, and used the DI from the bass rig. Two vocals mics and used a DDrum Acoustic Kick Drum Trigger (into an Alesis D5 drum module) on the Kick Drum. I ran these inputs into the PreSonus SL16.4.2 Digital mixer and out through a DBX Driverack set for Yamaha C115V settings.
I was throughly impressed with the response I got from the Compacts. Especially with the vocals and drum trigger. This was a highly reverbant room with stained concrete floors and wooden walls. The Compacts did a better job last night than what our band did with single 15's put up on stands over the summer.
Before the band plays, during their breaks and at the end of the night, I always play music for background noise. I had so many compliments on the sound and the venue members (one could say managers) really liked the sound and said it was one of the best sounds in the room all year especially with a full band.

Hi Bobby,

How many guests were there in the room, and how big was the room? It was great to learn a 'bold' use of the L1 Compacts.

KhucDu

The room is a 5000 sq ft room with 20 foot ceilings. The upper 8 feet are acoustic panels. There were about 150 people there when we were playing music from the laptop for Dinner, Awards and Announcements. Just before the band started playing the people started leaving (after free dinner) and we had just over 100 people in the room.
I have DJ'd in this room with the two compacts set about 10 feet apart from eachother and it works out great! I push the volume up to just about the clip range and it fills the room wonderfully.
One thing with the band I noticed was that the vocals would clip the Compacts but the instruments would not. If I backed down on the vocals just a little, the input light would stay green with the occassional glow of red. Another thing I noticed was that the closer you were to the band the lessor the vocals were. The further you were back from the band the vocals really came out strong. It could have been because I splayed the Compacts out the side just a little and not pointed them directly centered to the audiance.

I think you don't really know what the Bose L1 products are capable of until you are in a position where you have to push them and you're forced to find out. I'm still learning with these but its a great ride... I absolutely love using them.

I just did my second show with the BOSE Compacts as FOH speakers. It was a request from the guys in the band. Honestly, I know they were not designed to be used in this manner as there just isn't enough low end for bass and kick. However, I am just using them for everything but kick drum. I have noticed that with a ddrum trigger kick and an Alesis DM5 drum module, I can get a decent kick drum sound! I was asked twice by management to turn the volume down. They actually asked at one point where then speakers were.
Getting them to work for me is pretty easy, however, I still believe they are better suited for my DJ work. Now, after the beginning of the year, it is time to get some L1 Model 1s and some B1s.