Setting: Loud indoor bar about 35'x100' feet+
Medium size stage.

Instrumentaion- DUO:
1)Me on vax,guitar 2)Partner on three congas and bongos

BOSE MII with T1 and 2 B1's

We were playing this bar friday night and I could not get loud enough for the bar to really feel the music. It could be heard fair, but not loud enough. The owner came up to me TWICE to turn it up!!

I had the gains set so they wouldn't blink red, 12 o'clockish. Volumes on the guitar and vox near 12 o'clock as well. I pushed the master from 3 to just past 4 but then I had a feedback issue. The pole was between us.

I also tried taking the B1's And move just in front of the stage and that actually helped but made the sound for us kind of odd.

I have another gig like this in a few weeks. This has happened before and the only way to rectify it was to use powered speakers out of the Bose. I dont want to do that if anyone has any tips..... I cant move the Pole too far away beacause there are too many people and some of course are drunk!!!

Couldnt help thinking that my old system: 2 EV tops with matching subs and one good monitor would have done better...

I have had the MII 1 year and 7 months using it 4-6 times a week, so I feel I know what I am doing but most gigs I do dont require pumping volume.

Anyone figured out how to remedy the super loud venue??

alrighty then...

Hi Vinny,

Are you micing the congas and bongos? How many mics and what kind?

What kind of vocal mic?

I'm always amazed that there are those that think the way to improve things when it gets too loud to hear the music is to turn the music up louder, when we all know that it just doesn't work that way.

Just guessing at this point but if you are using multiple mics it could be a difficult problem to overcome.

O..

A single sm57 on the The Congas. No other mics for percussion.

I am going to work on some "ultra volume" presets over this week, especially with the acoustic guitar. Time to Grab the earplugs! Fortunately my neighbor wont be around for a few days.......

quote:

Originally posted by Vinny-FLA:

I had the gains set so they wouldn't blink red, 12 o'clockish.

Vinny,
I suppose each of our settings will be different but I have my gain set for my vocals mics at about 2 o'clock. Do yours start to blink red if you go much past 12 o'clock? 12 o'clock seems pretty low to me but I don't push much with my voice at all.

I can't imagine bringing my master volume up to 3 or 4 o'clock inside! Wow!

quote:

Originally posted by Vinny-FLA:
Anyone figured out how to remedy the super loud venue??

The best way for me is to be as feedback resistant as possible. For me that is an Audix OM-5 vocal mic and a Sunrise in my guitar. And then try to set up in a way that you can still hear yourself but be way off to the side of the L1 or even a bit behind it if you need to be really loud and then crank it up.

With all of that said, I don't like doing that at all! I want to enjoy myself when I play and part of that comes from hearing myself at a nice volume level. I'll use all the techniques mentioned above in a pinch if the need arises but if that is the nature of the venue, I won't continue to play there.

The L1 does many things very well. It can really fill a room with nice, pleasing sound but I don't think it was designed to blow peoples' heads off. If a venue isn't happy until they can "feel" the music I know I'm not the right guy for that job. And the L1 might not be the right system for that job.

Do you still have your old system? If the job is worth keeping you might want to set up your L1 as your monitor, set it so you can enjoy the sound and if the venue wants to be blown away with volume, set up the old stuff and blast away at them!

Hope that helps a little.

Good luck,
Matt

Vinny,

When I play in my duo with myself on guitar & vocals & my partner on djembe or conga & vocals we use two systems - either Model I or Model II - with two B1's each. We have had to push pretty hard at a couple venues, but we've always been able to have enough volume for the patrons - usually too much. Hand drums take a lot of power to push out those lows, & it may be robbing the power from your guitar & voice. Also my partner uses pickups on his drums to falsify the lows & get more direct sound & more volume. He can even get a decent kick sound out of it. I'll post a clip if you'd like.

Hi Vinny ~

It sounds as if you’re pretty experienced with the system already. So, I imagine you know all of this, but I’ll throw in my two cents worth, here.

1. If it’s a crowded venue, try to get your Model II elevated above the crowd which might be standing right in front of it and soaking up your sound. Tilt the Model II slightly forward to aim the vertical speaker array at them. You indicated medium size stage, but I didn’t know if it was raised or not.
2. To “…feel the music”, you may have to add a Packlite and a couple more B1s.
3. I’ve had some luck using the Noise Gate function of the T1, in adding additional gain for microphones. You’ll have to play with the settings some.
4. As Tom Munch mentioned, you may need to go with a second system, one for each of you. It sort of sounds as if you’ve maxed out your Model II, at least for this venue.

Good luck in your quest for an “ultra volume” preset! If you find something that works for you, please share it with us!

John

The stage was elevated so the L1 was as well.

As far as setting the gain, with the particular mic I was using (A carvin very much like the sm58), if I went 1 oclock it would blink red at times.
The volume was deifinately loud, and I had some people dancing. Some venues want that concert atmosphere at times, and I have to tell ya it can be a blast to rock out even with an acoustic.
I think I may just go with the single powered speaker again. Can't go with another L1 because of money issues and 99% of the time my single L1 with the 2 B1's is perfect.

Hi Vinny,

Lots of good suggestions here.

You might try the High Gain Normal mic preset for your vocal.

Not familiar with your Carvin mic, but the OM5 mentioned by Open Road Matt, is what I use, it is a hyper-cardioid mic, very resistant to feedback and a worthy addition to any setup where feedback is an issue.

O..

I'm interested in the idea of an extra L1 (maybe even a compact) helping with a feedback issue. We are also having problems getting enough volume with our L1, usually in small crowded noisy pubs. Not sure the Bose is the best vehicle for this sort of atmosphere but I like the quality of the sound. At the moment we have our L1 to the side and slightly ahead of us but when the pub gets noisy start having bother hearing each other and our backing (ipod).

If we did buy a compact to supplement the L1, how do we set up and run the two together ( I'd assume the backing needs to come out of both) and would it make a big difference in the amount of volume we could put out there before feedback?

Jim,
Are you using a T1 and an L1 Model 2? If so you could set up your Model 2 in front of you so feedback is not an issue at all. Then take the master line out of the T1 and run it to the Compact. Put the compact behind you, use that as a monitor and set the volume so you can hear yourself at a comfortable level.

This way you could crank up the L1 Model 2 as loud as needed and then adjust the Compact to your liking.

If you are not using a T1 you will have to get more creative about how to get your signals to both the L1 and the Compact.

Matt

Thanks ORM. I actually hadn't thought of that. We do have a T1 for our L1 (Classic). I suppose the volume on the Compact wouldn't have to be that great if it was behind us. We'll give that a go i think.

Yikes. This is a scary post. I'm due to use my L1 M2 system this weekend in a fairly large restaurant. I have ONE b1... Hope to heck it's loud enough.

Hi Bryan,

quote:

Originally posted by Brywool:
Yikes. This is a scary post. I'm due to use my L1 M2 system this weekend in a fairly large restaurant. I have ONE b1... Hope to heck it's loud enough.

How large is the restaurant?

How noisy is it?

Hi Bryan,

I've posted a reply over in your other thread: first gig this week

Please follow the link.

I use my L1M2T1 2B1 for DJ and this was my problem before so I bought another set. That did not increase the volume much and less to impress because audience or clients see 2. I had to sell it and bought the new Mackie HD1531(3way - 1,800 watts each) speakers and problem solve. I still run all my vocals thru the L1 and only bring or turn on the powered Mackie if needed. Same price I spent for the Bose to get a 4,000 watts speakers for backup. They are only 96lbs each but you will get more praise for your Bose system. I use them together all the time for my enjoyment, with the Bose next to me or in the middle and the Mackie HD's for mains coming out from the AUX or Master of T1.

ed

It's feedback that is the problem. Not the ability of the system to pump out the volume level that you desire. Adding any amount of extra L1s is totally pointless if the system (and stage set up) is already feeding back with the power you are using now! Feed the L1 with a line signal (from a CD for example) and the amount of volume you can get is amazing. Line signals do not feedback, mics do. That's the proof that's it's a feedback issue not a volume one. You've got feedback, not a lack of power.

Nope, with the best will in the world, having the speakers behind the mic(s) will only work up to a certain level, no matter how 'resistant' the system is to feedback. That's the law of acoustic physics. Put a mic in front of a speaker, keep turning up the volume and eventually it will feedback. It has to.

The answer - or at least the route I'm pursuing - is to use feedback killers. They will intelligently identify the frequencies feeding back and apply a very narrow notch filter at just enough strength to stop the feedback. I know Behringer is not a favoured brand by lots of people, but without prejudice I have used a number of their equipments and found them to work very well at very competitive prices. I'm currently considering the FEEDBACK DESTROYER PRO FBQ2496.

As I mentioned in another post, it would be great if auto feedback control was included in a future T1 (or whatever it may be called). I love the L1 array, but once you get up to a certain volume level, depending on room acoustics, with mics pointing at the speakers, it just has to feedback eventually. Feedback suppression, moving the speaker array in front of the mics (and largely losing your monitors), or just keeping the system volume down, are the only answers. Upping the power alone is not an answer to feedback, it will make things worse if nothing else changes.

Hi SteverUK,

I know a lot of performers like to work loud. It seems you might be one of those.

One of the problems with live sound that the L1 was intended to help correct it the tendency for a performer to get too loud for the front rows, while not being loud enough for those in the back of the room.

The sound from an L1 carries so much better than a conventional speaker that one doesn't have to be as loud on stage but can still be louder in the back of the room.

While everyone is certainly free to utilize the systems in any manner that suits them. I think it is important to give the intended use a chance. I know there are venues where loud works well, but I wonder if given a chance at a different approach would the audience grow or diminish?

http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/for...06041054/m/117105413

O..

Hi Oldghm,

Understand your points. However, just to put it in perspective, it's not me who wants to be loud, it's the fact that people in the audience often cannot hear much at all, let alone loud! I used my L1 mk2 a few weeks ago at a fancy dress party in a marquee. Solo gig, me and acoustic guitar. Everyone was excited at being in fancy dress, and there was a LOT of background chatter going on. The problem is, in order for those at the back to hear, for better or for worse, my volume had to 'suppress' all that chatter to get through to everyone - including the chatterboxes themselves!

That's a very common scenario as we all know. Not every audience just sits and listens - if only! In these circumstances we make a choice, either shrug and aaccept that the L1 is not suitable, or try to do something about it. Getting on the mic and asking a couple of hundred excited, 'in drink' people not to chat is not an answer. The gig is the gig, like it or not, that is how it is, you have to work with it, or pack up and go home. Basically, you need more volume to rise above the background noise and put people into listen or dance mode. So you turn up, and with the mics looking into the array, feedback becomes a problem. So tackle the feedback! We have the technology.

I disagree that we have to use the L1 as a platform for educating people about volume. That's a much bigger thing, and since the advent of rock n roll and amplification, not a lot has changed in 50 years, so it's not going to change now just because we're using funny looking speakers.

We have to stop seeing the L1 as a perfect system for all occasions (I don't refer to large rock concerts in that context). Where a good amount of volume is required, then WITH THE MICS IN FRONT OF THE ARRAY, it can be left wanting even though it still has power and volume in the bank. One has to either move the array behind the mics or squelch the feedback. Simple as that.