I am thinking of just going with another B1 for my L1 MII system. With only one B1 it wasn't quite there, but with only using my Ampeg cab (without any B1's) it sounded good and there was available headroom.

So...I am thinking about another B1 as I feel it mixes better with the L1. Any bassist just use 2 or is eventually going to drive me to get a packlite and 2 more???

Thanks.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: albanyeric,

quote:

Originally posted by albanyeric:
I am thinking of just going with another B1 for my L1 MII system. With only one B1 it wasn't quite there, but with only using my Ampeg cab (without any B1's) it sounded good and there was available headroom.

So...I am thinking about another B1 as I feel it mixes better with the L1. Any bassist just use 2 or is eventually going to drive me to get a packlite and 2 more???

Thanks.

albany eric,

2 B1's is the minimum for bass IMO. If I am playing in my bedroom I use 1, but for anything more I always use two.

I have 4 B1's, but I don't like to bring extra stuff if I don't have to. My rule of thumb playing rock/funk/jazz is less than 125 person club I bring inly 2 B1's. Bigger than that I bring 4 - but - I can get away with two right up 200 people depending on the gig.

Hope this is helpful,
Mike

Last year our church group had a bassist (who also played guitar) that was quite happy with the sound with two B1's in a room that was ~35x60 (i.e.: would seat ~150).

When we played outdoors, we used 4 B1's on the bassist's System.

Eric -

Like so many other things, it depends on several factors. Style of music you play, venue size, etc., etc. I agree with MikeZ-at-Bose in that I think the minimum for a Bass player (any style of music) should probably be 2 B1s. I started with 1 B1. After I bought my second B1, I noticed more "presence" in my bass sounds. I mainly play indoor gigs, so doing something outdoors on a regular basis might call for more reinforcement. But, I think you'd like the way things sound with 2 B1s for the 150 - 300 person indoor venues. Remember, you can always add a little more "thump" with the EQ controls of your mixer.

Thanks everyone...it is going to be 2 B1's then. For the gig this weekend I will just use my rig and then DI into the L1 for added dispersion.

Eric,

A thought to try if you are bringing you conventional rig anyways:

Try running into the L1, and then sending the Bass Line Out to your conventional rig. Your old rig will just have the lows running through it and will act as a subwoofer. You can add more or less bass by turning your rig up and down to taste. You won't need to bring any B1's.

Good luck,
Mike

Mike-thanks. Good suggestion and something else to try out...I actually just ran my Ampeg 115 cab instead of one B1 at rehearsal and it sounded good with more thump than the B1. Thing is, I didn't have my T1 yet, so I didn't get to test how it sounded with my vocals also running through that setup. The 8 ohm Ampeg seemed to be more efficient than the B1 so I have no idea what that will do to the mix. I may try that at my gig. To be honest, I can get away with volume for any gig we do without a house system, so I am only planning to incorporate it with the L1 for mix purposes and also since the kick will eventually go through my L1.

I guess as long as I use the line level out or stay within safe ohm ratings for speakers I can just play around and see what works best for the band. I'll report back as to how it goes. My main thing going with Bose is letting up on my "thump" addiction if ya know what I mean. Gotta love that thump!

Is that hookup "sanctioned"? I thought the L1 "reads" the presence of 1 or 2 B1s, and eQs accordingly. I assume you are referring to the B1 Bass Module (amp 3 OUT). Any line level, grounding or impedance issues to be aware of?

Hi robr,

I don't know about sanctioned but it *is* well documented.

Model I / Classic Bass Line Out


Model II Bass Line Out


There are several things to try. I think Andrew Douglas has done most of them. He wrote about that in his article
Electric Bass.

Thanks for the excellent references/links. I was confusing the B1 OUT and the Bass LINEOUT connectors.

I have 4 but have used two and thought it sounded great for bass. I really got the other two because I was concerned about the bass drum kick of our e drums.

I think what bass you are putting through it makes a big difference though. Some poeple put low quality basses through amps and make up for it with knob twiddleing and effects.

I play bongo musicman bass which has lots of output and very prominent in all the bass tones. I've never heard it sound thin through any type of amp. but, when I put my starter ibenez, which cost me $200, through my L1 I have to crank all the tone knobs on it to get a sound close to my Bongo.

I have noticed (been really working with the system) that with a single B1, on a L1 MII system with a T1, bass power is limited to 12 o'clock on the T1 master, and about 11:30 on the channel volume (with proper gain set). Prior to this, the bass mixes well. After this, the hard limiter kicks in and at that point the L1 highs/mids over power the bass no matter what you do.

Will the second B1 enable the bass/mid/high mix to continue with the Master and the channels higher than 12 noon? I have found that we generally settle at 1:30 on the master and about 1 on the channels (this is for our rock gigs).

Also, I hooked up my 4 ohm JBL JRX 18s sub instead of any bass modules. Using my Boss DR 770 drum machine with just a rock kick thumping, and playing my bass through another channel, the system, completely thumped. Issue is I had to really eq everything and that nice natural Bose mix wasn't quite as pleasing as with the bass module. But man the thump as there. Still, the JBL is 72 pounds and much larger, so I would only use that option as a last resort (I am really trying to be as portable as possible with the Bose).

quote:

Originally posted by albanyeric:
I have noticed ... a single B1, on a L1 MII system with a T1, bass power is limited to 12 o'clock on the T1 master, and about 11:30 on the channel volume (with proper gain set). Prior to this, the bass mixes well. After this, the hard limiter kicks in and at that point the L1 highs/mids over power the bass no matter what you do.

Will the second B1 enable the bass/mid/high mix to continue with the Master and the channels higher than 12 noon? ... {when} I hooked up my 4 ohm JBL JRX 18s sub instead of any bass modules ... the system, completely thumped. Issue is I had to really eq everything and that nice natural Bose mix wasn't quite as pleasing as with the bass module...

You are describing precisely the reasons for using multiple B1's.

-- they scale up when you need more bass (but no harm comes to any components when you try to push however few you have!!). If you have one B1, and you hit it's "limit", plug in a second. Hit the limit with 2 B1's? Plug in an A1 + 2 more B1's, and "double your pleasure" again.

-- the frequency balance you have at one volume level is preserved automatically as you change the "master" volume (up to the limit of however many B1's you have connected).

As 'Ric' indicated above, many (if not most) bass players are content with 2 B1's. Low percussion, however, (kick drum, Porchboard Bass, etc.) seem to be most totally satisfying with 4 B1's.

Dan, as a reference point, what is the limit when you add a second B1? Will that handle where I described my settings?

Thanks,

Eric

Reasons I ask is that out of size, depth and efficiency for bass/sub cabs, you can only get 2 out 3 choices.

I am of course going for efficiency and depth, but trying my best to skirt the size/weight issue. I want to only have 2 subs max...

This is where the 4 ohm alternate sub comes into play using Neodymium speakers to ease the weight issue (as long as the depth of the speaker fits between the 2 feet of the L1, I'm happy).

I have been using my Gibson EB2D with the T1, L1 II and 2 B1's.
I have been very happy with the sound and overall tone quality, albiet today we play with a heck of a lot less volume then my earlier years
The Gibson is a deeper sounding bass though. Actually way back with the old tube type Fender dual showman and such, is was kind of muddy. I played rock for years with an Acoustic 150 and 4 15" JBL's. No wonder we needed ear plugs back then.

I have not tried my Fender Bass through it yet. I think that might be quite interesting as they both have such a different sound and overall feel to them.

Although I am satisfied with the 2 B1's, at home I usually practice with my bass directly into the T1, a Mic, USB tracks from my laptop and headphones. That works out very well.

I can also record that mix directly back onto the laptop and review. The T1 has put about 5 other pieces of my sound gear out of work.

Talk about older than dirt though, here's a picture from about 40 plus years ago.

For any low instrument, or accompaniment tracks, I always recommend 2 B1's for performance. Period.

It is really, really hard to say when you'll be unhappy with just 2 while indoors. So much of the 'bass response' depends on the room and the setup in the room. See Wiki article on Bass Outdoors, but there is much on bass response indoors as well as outdoors.

Outdoors, I always hope to use 4 B1 ...

When I hooked two L1's to the Left & Right outputs of a "real" electronic pipe organ, and compared the internal speakers to the L1's, I could pretty well match the "built-in" pedal sounds with 4 B1's on each L1 System (but it did take a slight increase in the Bass EQ). Once I had the "sound that matched" while sitting at the organ console, a 'wandering listener' in the room said the Bose sounded better overall in the whole room compared to what came from the internal speakers. (This was just playing the pedals ... not trying to compare the higher tones.)

Just 2 B1's per L1 didn't quite have enough on the low end. I'm sure this is mostly due to the 40Hz lower cutoff of the B1's, which doesn't provide enough 'rumble' for the lowest organ pedal notes; with 4 B1's per System, there is enough volume on the overtones to effectively emulate those "missing or weak" fundamentals.

Billie-Joel,

First off-that is an awesome pic! Is that a '66 Fender Jazz bass? Do you still have it???

Maybe my problem is that I still play too loud. Like I said, our volume is about 1:30 on the tone match and between 12-1 per channel. I notice the dropout from one B1, but I admit that I am "not following directions" by doing so. I guess I always try to make it work but in this instance I just have to pay the piper.

Nice practice set up by the way...I practice through a small mixer into my computer so I can record or learn tunes as I feel like it (or surf the Bose forum when practicing ha ha ha).

Dan-thanks so much for your help over these past couple of threads-I am thinking maybe another L1 and then for the outdoor stuff this summer I'll add my JBL sub with a poweramp.

Reading what Hilmar has talked about regarding bass frequencies, I am realizing that anything under 40 hz is not to be worried about and can make your live mix tougher to remain clear...still, as a bass player, those low frequencies are enticing (even in numbers).

quote:

Originally posted by albanyeric:
Billie-Joel,

First off-that is an awesome pic! Is that a '66 Fender Jazz bass? Do you still have it???

Yes, it was a 66 Fender Jazz Bass, I really loved it. Unfortunately, I was at a place called Uncle Sams in Buffalo (Cheektowaga)NY and it got ripped off.

I switched to the Gibson EB2D 1968 sunburst, which I still have along with a Fender P-Bass as a spare for knockaround.

I must admit back then, the feeling up on the stage with all that power and the kickin sound was really something. Do yourself a favor though, if you and your group are gonna play loud, get some earplugs. They are worth it down the road. I worked a while as a studio musician/engineer and they were very clear. "There is no place for trashed ears in the audio business". They even had an Audiologist who tested your hearing.