I've found using the BNX3 with the PAS to be amazing. Any tone I can get through the headphones, which is just about any tone imaginable, I can get to come out of the PAS.
I was a little nervous about buying the PAS until I got my SVT's tone to come out of it. Now I travel a WHOLE lot lighter, and with the Steinberger XL2ADB I have nothing organic in my rig but me!
Don

Don,

it's good to hear, that you are happy with your sound. Can you tell us a little more, i.e which models do you use on the BNX3, what style of music do you play, etc.. I'm just very curious how other bass players get their sound.

Thanks
Hilmar

My signal chain goes from the bass to the BNX3 instrument in then instrument out to chanel 3 on th PAS. I also put a SansAmp bass driver between the bass and BNX3, it sounds good too but the BNX3 has plenty of tone shaping by itself.
I'm in a blues/rock band but prefer heavy metal. I have 2 basic tones: SVT smiley bass with lots of round wound growl and that heavy bass tone like Led Zeppelin, Seven Nation Army by White Stripes, and Are You Gonna Be My Girl by Jet.
For the SVT tone I use the SVT Classic model (my former rig). I occasionaly use some effects, detune (a chorus like sound), overdrive, phaser, delay (One of These Days by Pink Floyd). Previously my effects were inaudible but realy ring through with the PAS.
For the heavy tone (if someone has a better name to describe it please tell me) I use the Ashdown model with boosted mids and bass,cut treble.
The BNX 3 also has a great dusl band compressor that I use with just about everything.
I'm still working on my sound. One problem I have is my sound alone is very different from when I play with the band. If anyone has advice about how to anticipate what something will sound with other instruments I could use some help.
My guitarist has a GNX3, He's a tube snob but he's gonna give the modeling thing an honest shot. If it goes well I'll ask him to post to the guitar forum.
Don

Don

Our band is a 7-piece (THE Linemen) w/2 horns, 2 guitar, bass, drums, keys, 4 of us sing also. We experimented a lot with modelers, all kinds, Roland, Line 6, you name it. We found that for the best BASS DEFINITION (hear the notes in the mix best), that bass direct is the answer, roll the deep bass off a bit also so the kick has its own room to breathe. Keep in mind that this is a big, rich-sounding band. If you're playing a power trio, things might be different, although full-harmonic metal guitar probably has the spectral content of a symphony orchestra.

Actually, you totally have the right idea. The sound you get just dialing it in alone does not necessarily translate to the sound that works in the ensemble. But we found that, for bass anyway, extra processing just took away from the focus of the instrument. It's worth giving it a try anyway. We have some useful presets for bass in bank 5. Also, try 10 and 12 and always turn the EQ knobs on the remote to see what you can get there. Let us know what you end up with. Bon appetit.

I just put my SVT and 4X10 in the attic. Not selling them yet but I'm pretty sure the PAS is my main rig from here out. I still have till 18 mar to return it to GC and we'll see how bad the anurism is when my credit card bill comes in.
Here's my plan to develop my sound with the band. The BNX3 is also an 8 track recorder. I'm goning to record the band sans bass on the left channel and the dry bass signal on the right, burn it to CD, split the output of my CD player so the left channel goes straight to channel 1 on the pas and the right channel goes through the BNX3 into channel 2 on the PAS. Then I'll have both hands free to twiddle my knobs (and develop my sound).
Now, whats the best way to record. I'm using a Shure SM57 wich I played with all day today. I found a sweet spot 8 ft directly in front of the PAS as high as the split in the cylindrical radiator but it still isn't perfect. Not as bad as out of the sweet spot where it sounds like we're performing in a bucket but could be better.
Thought an omni-directional mic would help so I tried a cheapy from radio shack. ICK! Returned it. A buddy at the local guitar shop is gonna let me try an AudioTechnica condenser mic. Any suggestions?
Don

Our favorite so far has been two (relatively cheap) electret capsules mounted to the side of a soccer ball. However, you can't but it from the shelf, so I would try either an omni or cardiod condenser or electret microphone. Shouldn't have to be very expensive, maybe you can rent something for a day to test whether a cardiod or an omni works better (for that application, my guess is you will be better off with a cardiod). There are a few mics out there where you can switch between omni cardiod and dipole, but there are relatively expensive with the exception of a Behringer one, which costs about $150.
Hope that helps

Hilmar

I am a GNX3 user and have been lurking around here trying to decide if I want to buy a PAS.

As a suggestion to D Campbell, the best way to get the same sound by yourself as you get at rehearsal is probably to set the Target Setting to "direct" while using a nice pair of headphones. What do you set it at with the PAS? I am sure you probably play around with this setting, but its just a thought. It has a huge affect on your final sound.

Even though this thread is bass related, it has given me the nudge to go try out my GNX3 with a PAS. I have been in the market for a PA system and would like a separate guitar rig for our rehearsal area. I currently play through a Fender 2x12 amp which is great for my home recording, but no good for jamming with the band. My band consists of 3 members. Drummer, guitar player, and me being the secondary guitar player/ bass player/ singer. It is my understanding that the PAS is versatile enough to handle each of the musical assignments. I guess there is only one way to find out...

Mumbus

Our system is about as versatile as it gets, so give it a try and see what you think.
Personally I found that the sounds when I'm playing alone or recording or playing live are not neccessarily the same. Something that works well for a bass-solo tune or some chord work may get you in trouble in a 10 piece band, since you either go under or your stepping on everyone else's tone. Something more restricted in spectrum seems to work better in a band. I also found that I don't have much trouble doing that. The basic premise of the Bose Personalized Amplification System(tm) concept is "What you hear is what you get". What you are hearing is pretty much the same as what the rest of the band and the audience is hearing. If it sounds good to you it will sound good to anyone else and the guess work of "how does by mid control relates to what the front-of-the-house guy is doing" or "I need dial to X clicks louder than the drummer for that unisono riff with Mr. guitar player" etc. just isn't there anymore and that makes the whole experience much more intuitive, natural and enjoyable.
The same goes of course the other way, if it doesn't sound good you better darn well do something about it right away

Hilmar

Does the BNX3 use the same modelling technology as the BP200?

What The...?
http://www.what-the.com

I'm usualy a lurker. This getting involved thing is kinda cool!

quote:

---

As a suggestion to D Campbell, the best way to get the same sound by yourself as you get at rehearsal is probably to set the Target Setting to "direct" while using a nice pair of headphones. What do you set it at with the PAS? I am sure you probably play around with this setting, but its just a thought. It has a huge affect on your final sound.

---

What I hear through the head phones is exactly what I hear through the PAS. The problem is, and I had this with the SVT, the Hartke 3500 and the Peavy TNT, when I'm noodleing alone in the garage I dial in a killer tone, then the band shows up and when we play together the tone is not the same. Much like Hilmar said.
As for as the BP200 I'm not sure, I think they use the same processor but I took a look at the online manual and the BP200 has a less amp models (my favorites are still there) and a lot less cabinet models. The compressor isn't the super dual band compressor on the BNX3 and the effects don't appear to be as full featured.
The whole microphone thing is a bit tricky, The local gutar shop didn't have any omnis,which is why I tried the radio shack one, and this is the first time I've heard of an electret capsule. Can you reccomend some less than $200 (list) models. Tomorrow I'm gonna try running the band through a mixer into the PAS and mixing the sound board signal with the room mic signal. I'll let you know how it goes.
Don

I am a bit confused...When you say, "when I'm noodleing alone in the garage I dial in a killer tone, then the band shows up and when we play together the tone is not the same"... what sound source are you using to dial in your tones. i.e. SVT, headphones, PAS. When you reference the SVT, Hartke 3500, and Peavey TNT, are you referring to your own amps, or the amp models on the BXN3. I must admit, I am not familiar with the BNX3 and the models that it contains, but I am sure that the connection variables are similar to those of the GNX3.

Just curious,
Mumbus

P.S. I just poked over to the BNX forum and noticed you are a member over there as well. Mark Bratcher is one of the guys over there who has helped diagnose various sound reproduction issues. You may want to search through the GNX forums to find any possible remedies to your sound problems. This is not to say that the guys at Bose cant help you...

I was talking about the actual amps. What I'm saying is that no matter what platform or bass I'm using the tone changes when other instruments are added to the mix. I beleive it has to do with the trebel and presence frequencies being squashed by higher pitch insruments. Not sure just a thought.
Recording went ok, lot o competency issues from me. When mixed properly the sound board recordings were great, the vocal and insrument mics picked up enough drums to make it decent. When I combined the sound board signal with the mic in the middle of the room signal the vocals were out of phase. Cool sound but not what I was looking for. I got one of those Bheringer condenser mics on order, I've been told it should do the trick.
thanks
Don

Sorry DOn,

I misunderstood what you where originally saying. I get it now. I've got no advice for that issue.

Good Luck,
Mumbus

Thanks for getting me amped to check out the PAS. I am heading to GC tonight with my GNX to test drive it.

I got good sound! Almost like I planned, I recorded the band on one channel and a dry bass signal on another then re-amped the bass signal to dial in my tone. You were right Hilmar, -3 bass,+3 mid,+6 treb, and I shifted the Mid and Trebel center frequencies up a bit.
My guitarist plugged in his GNX3 for the first time last night and said "Wow!". Just before that he was talking about just playing out of his amp, now he wants to play with the PAS a little more. I realy want to see the whole band go through PASs because it will aleviate many of our problems and deliver a dynomite sound, but I'm trying not to force feed it to the band either. Maybe if we got a second system it would be easier to mix, but money is an issue and we are mostly hobby players. I'll keep plugging and let y'all know what happens.
Don

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hilmar-at-Bose:
Our favorite so far has been two (relatively cheap) electret capsules mounted to the side of a soccer ball.
Hilmar

---

OK, the first time I heard about this soccer ball technique for recording I laughed it off because I thought it would look too weird in the audience. But if you are getting the best results this way, then I'm ready to reconsider. Could you be more specific about what electret capsules you've tried? Also, how do you mount a soccer ball at the right level? What are you recording to? What do you TELL people to explain this weird looking method of recording? Thanks, Dick Curtis

I am currently using a Digitech GNX4 with my L1 Model II Bose system along with the T1 Tone Match engine. Although the GNX4 is mainly a guitar processor, it does have some bass amp and cabinet models in it. Recently, I've fiddled around with some of the bass models on the GNX4 and there are two that seem to sound the best for me. The first one is called Modern Bass which is based on an Ashdown ABM-C410H with a 4x10 cabinet. It has a really good punchy bass sound good for a more funk and slap style. I use the compression from the GNX4 set on fast attack and a 4:1 ratio. I also use a slight plate reverb also from the GNX4. The second model is called Dual Show based on a Fender Dual Showman. The cabinet is based on a Blonde 2x12. It has what I consider a more warmer sound. It's not as "large" sounding as the Modern Bass model. I tried playing them both on channel 2 of the T1 set on the General Processor preset, but I find that it sounds much better set on the Active Bass 2 preset. I tried both amp models with out a cabinet model and just a straight direct and that sounded pretty good too. Finally, I tried just my bass straight into the L1 and that was good too. They all sound good on a stand alone basis. I just have to hear how it works with a band and see which way is the best.