If I want to distribute the 4 channels among a L1 II and a L1 classic, - would it be possible and how would I do this?
Looking at the manual shows me, that I can set the AUX-portion of a channel from 0% to 100%. But how can I avoid the signal going out over the main?
MikeZ-at-Bose writes here that this would be possible, but I just wonder how.

Wolfgang

Take a look at the T1 simulator at
http://t1.boseadvocate.com/T1simulation.swf

(Try this yourself in the simulator - it's pretty cool!)

-- Select interactive tour
-- Spin the T1 rotary selector to the Aux position
-- press the "Ch Edit" button for the channel that you want in aux output only
-- Notice that the readout says ch x aux output is muted. Press the edit button control under the "mute" word, then spin the same control to adjust desired volume going from this channel out to the aux output.
-- Since we want the main output suppressed on this channel, Rotate the Middel Edit button so that the aux output tap for the channel is "Pre: With Eq and FX". This means you can turn that channels main volume (normal channel volume at the bottom of the T1 all the way down to keep it out of your "main" L1's mix, while still sending the post-reverb out the aux output to another L1.

Hi Wolfgang

quote:

But how can I avoid the signal going out over the main?

From http://t1.boseadvocate.com/T1simulation.swf

It looks like we can control that here.



Edit: Looks like Jim and I were typing at the same time.

Actually I was thinking of the Aux setting set to "Pre" so it is independent of the channel volume and master volume.

And - yes - typing at the same time.
Thanks for your continuing great help on this site ST!

Thank you for your help ST and Jim.

Ideally I would like to use channel vol either to control output on main (e.g. CH-1 to L1-II) or to control output on AUX (e.g. CH-2 to L1-Classic).

But it looks like I can't control the AUX with the channel volume knob without sending a signal to the main bus. That would mean I can control the instrument on AUX only by entering the menu.

@ST: I guess the status screen "Output Level" only shows the current levels, but I can't change anything.

This would not be the ideal solution to distribute sources among two L1, but obviously the T1 was designed for usage with one L1 and not for two.

Possibly this could be changed in the future by an update of the T1.

Wolfgang

During testing the T1 I recognized, that there is no reverb on the AUX.

Is the ToneMatch processing routed on AUX out? Or is it routed only to the MAIN Out?

In the second case I would have no ToneMatch on a second L1, using the AUX out.

Is this correct?

Wolfgang

Can someone from Bose comment on the AUX and reverb? I've seen two posts from Wolfgang on the subject, but I can't find anything in the manuals or the forum that indicate this is how it suppose to be.

I was under the impression I could make AUX the same as the main (aside from master volume control). I'll be pretty dissapointed if there is no reverb....

-Mark

Hi all,

Wolfgang (BlackForestMan), I just confirmed (with my ears) that ToneMatch does indeed get to the Aux Out...

Mark (Skillydally), I also just confirmed Wolfgang's assertion that Reverb does not make it to the Aux Out. Not sure if this is/isn't addressable in the future. Engineers-at-Bose?

Chuck

Wow, no reverb on AUX?!

That doesn't make any sense to me. What's the rationale here?

That's a very good question. Please let me me try to explain, what's going on:
The T1 has lots of different effects units and normally they are unique to each channel. That means that the T1 has 4 individual dynamic processors, 4 modulators (chorus flanger, phaser, etc.) , 4 EQs, 4 delay processors, etc. The only exception is the reverb, which is shared by all channels.

The AUX is also a per-channel control. That means if you turn up the AUX of channel, you expect to hear signals from channel 1 and only from channel 1. However, the output of the reverb processor contains the reverb portions of all 4 channels. If we add that to the Aux, you'd hear the reverb portions of all 4 channels and not only the channel that you are interested in. In most cases, this is probably not what you want.

If you are familiar with conventional mixing consoles, you will find that the situation is quite similar. You can only route to an AUX output effects that are specific to a channel (normally these would be connected to the insert loop of this channel). The "shared" effects typically come into the board through an AUX return, which is not channel specific.

Hope that helps

Hilmar

Thanks Hilmar, for the detailed information on why there's no reverb on the aux.

From the perspective of a sound man who's familiar with mixing consoles, it's comprehensible.
From the perspective of a musician who wants replace his mixing console by an T1 and address two L1 it's not so comprehensible.

I would - for my live applications - use delay instead reverb on the AUX and therefore this isn't a very great issue for me.

For me I would ideally like to have two modes on the T1:

• Mode 1: MAIN out, AUX out like it is now. Eventually beeing able to switch between Master vol and AUX vol, by pushing the Master Volume knob, would be very helpful (at least for me).
  
• Mode 2: Stereo mode with LEFT/RIGHT out, having a common Master volume, and ideally reverb on both channels

How's about the ToneMatch presets on AUX? Are they applied on the AUX (as Chuck confirmed by his ears)? - Thats much more important for me, because I want connect two L1 and distribute the sources.

Would it be possible in the future to change the behaviour of the T1 for individual needs by a software update? (e.g. by donwloading an update to get one of the two modes above)

Wolfgang

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BlackForestMan,

Thanks, Hilmar. Your 'shared reverb' explanation makes good sense. Since ToneMatch presets are per channel, it also makes good sense to me that these and all per channel effects (EQs, dynamics, Mods, Delays) would make it to the Aux Out (I was sure that's what my ears were telling me), as long as the channel's Aux mode is set to either Pre: With EQ & FX or Post: After Fader...

Glad to know that no reverb on the Aux isn't a show-stopper for you, Wolfgang...

All the best,

Chuck

Thanks Hilmar, and I'll agree with Chuck, the explanation does make sense.

However, I am dissapointed it works this way. I had planned to send the master to one L1 Classic, and the AUX to a second L1 Classic and split the channels across them, effectively creating a stereo signal. Obviously I can still do this, just without the reverb.

C'est la vie. The T1 is still rockingly cool.

-Mark

P.S. I would suggest the manual and online info be updated to include this tidbit.

@Chuck:
The AUX mode "Post: After Fader" seems to be the most useful, - but here I've no chance to avoid that this channel goes on Master out.
A software switch ("Master out on/off") would be very helpful here.

@Mark:
It's in the manual, but not under the AUX section.
At the very end "Care & Maintenance" at problem "Aux output does not sound right" you can read:

quote:

Note: No reverb comes from the Aux output even if the tap point is Pre or Post.

An update of the manual and online info really would make sense.

Wolfgang

Wolfgang - I didn't realize that. It's a start, but I think it should specifically be mentioned in the AUX section.

I think this is important to be clear about b/c the "FX Mute" button mutes the FX including reverb, and the AUX has a setting for "Post FX". This sorta sounds like reverb would be included.

Highly disappointed as well. I am using this system for DJing - 2 Model II L1's, 4 B1's and the Tone Match System. It was my understanding that I would be able to produce the sound through the 2 L1's via the T1 with no problem. Now, from reading this post, it sounds as if the Reverb will not carry over to the 2nd Model II. This would create a big problem - for example, if I have a mic going through the T1, the reverb being applied to that mic would only be applied to one speaker, and this would probably sound funky.

Well, it looks like I will be using 2 mixers which is something that I was pondering already due to the limited inputs in the T1 - a DJ style mixer into which I will plug my microphone, computer, CD players. Then I will feed my master out of that mixer into the T1, so that works.

I just received my T1 today - so I haven't done anything beyond taking it out of the box and visiting the forum to see how I need to set it up.

@KKorpos: As you have 2 Model II L1's you should be able to connect one to the T1 by way of the (digital) ToneMatch Port and the other one by way of the (analogue) "Master" out. That way you should have reverb on both.

Cheers,

Christian

quote:

Originally posted by ChristianB:
... That way you should have reverb on both.

Christian,

yes, you would have reverb on both L1, BUT you only will have the same signal twice and NO stereo.
This way it's not possible to put e.g. ch-1 of the T1 to the first L1 and ch-2 to the second L1 in order to achieve either stereo mode (for DJ) or separation of instruments/vocs (for musician).
It would be basically the same as chaining two L1 classic/model I.

Wolfgang

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BlackForestMan,

quote:

BUT you only will have the same signal twice

Wolfgang,

I was/am under the impression that was exactly what KKorpos is trying/expecting to achieve - 1 to 4 audio signals into a single T1 and the T1's output into two Model II L1s. As the T1 is mono only of couse the result would not be stereo but rather double mono.

If, however, he wants to use his L1s as a classical stereo P.A. system he might as well get rid of the T1, buy a little mixer (w/built-in f/x) and connect its left/right master out to the respective L1's analog in...

Cheers,

Christian

Still have to check this out, waiting on my second system. I purchased the T1 because I thought that it would really add some punch with the built in presets - and I am also a musician (as well as a DJ) so I figured it was a piece of audio candy that I didn't want to live without : )

I am fine with what Christian said - and will use the Master Out since I have the Model II's. I am not concerned with true stereo, I actually read some posts regarding this - and other DJ's said that they preferred using mono. When I started reading these posts about the reverb issue I was concerned because I wanted to use a more direct route and plug a mic in through the T1, and that reverb thing I read about would have caused some issues.

Thanks for everybody for the clarification with this. Pathetically enough, I have been so busy, I still haven't even plugged the T1 in to hear what it can do!!!!