I am new to the L1 system. I just bought 4 L1 Model II system. I wonder if any one ever connect all 4 to 1 of a third party mixer (Mackie) instead on 1 L1 for each musician? I know the Mackie mixer has L and R out put, but that can only handle 2 L1. I don't know how to get all 4 connect to my mixer. Please help ... any idea?
Thank you for joining the forum.
Please tell us exactly what model of Mackie mixer you have. A link to the mixer on the Mackie website would be very helpful.
Also can you tell us about the inputs that you have running to the mixer.
I use the Mackie profx16. I connect guitar, bass, drum, and 3 mics into the mixer.
Here is a link to owners manual for the Mackie ProFX16.
Please see pages 14 and 15
Please note item #15. PAN
Please note item #21: The ASSIGN switches.
There is is a description of how you use these switches and the pan control to send the output of any input to one of four output channels on the mixer.
Then note pages 18 and 20 where there are instructions on how to use item #32 - the SUB Outs.
All of this should allow you send any input to any of the four SUB Outs and then you connect each SUB out to one L1® Power Stand Analog Input.
For best results, you will want to send each input to only one L1®.
#18 PAN Control and #21 Assign Switches
#18 PAN Control Description
#21 ASSIGN Switches Description
#32 SUB OUTs
Model II Power Stand Analog Input
thanks so much for the info. The bose B1 is not punchy enough for dancing music, so I am thinking about using my own JBL subwoofer to add along with the L1 system. Please show me what is the best way to do this? Thanks again.
We finally bought 3 more L1 M1 and 10 B1. we are a band doing wedding gigs for over 20 years using conventional PA system. We have decided to buy the L1 M1 system after read so many positive things about it. We had performed a show last night and the result was not very please. We even get complaints from the guests that they can not hear the vocal clearly, especially the bass and drum were not punchy at all. We were so dissapointed ane really need help in this forum. Here is the description of the gigs:
1) about 500 guests.
2) dance floor is 25'x25' and table are around it.
3) the stage is about 2 feet off ground.
4) we use the same mixer and all effects from our PA system.
5) we use 1 L1 M1 + 4 B1 on each left and right stage as the same as the conventional PA speakers.
6) we use 1 L1 M1 + 2 B1 in the middle back stage as the same as the conventional monitor.
7) we run the signal from main out to the left and right for the front speakers.
here are the result we get:
1) the feedback still going to the microphone and give sueaky sound.
2) the guests complaint the vocal is not clear and the bass/drum were not punchy. May be the dancing crowd in front of the speaker blocking the sound dispersion ?
the dancing crowd can not block the sound of the convention PA speaker because the speaker are on the high pole?
We really want to keep this L1 system but not sure now. We have a show coming next 2 weeks and really want to have some help from experts in this forum.
That is disappointing. Having used the L1 Model I very successfully I know that for the venue/event you described the L1 Model 1 should have performed great if it were set up properly.
From your descriptions of feedback and other issues, I believe that you didn't have the gain stages set properly to ensure maximum/optimum levels.
It sounds like you have 2 Model I systems. And if so, keep in mind that these were designed to be placed behind the band so that they serve both as Audience (front of house/conventional speaker) and Band (monitor) source. This type of placement allows you to take advantage of "in the air mix" so that if you can hear yourselves (and instruments) on stage, it should be what your audience hears. In addition, depending on placement, the one you were using as a monitor may have contributed to feedback issue as well since the same signal was being produced at different places (and presumably high levels).
Can you tell us how many people in the band and what instrumentation you were using and putting through the systems?
I'm sure if you can give us some additional info, we'd be collectively be able to give you some great suggestions and solutions.
Ok. So now I'm confused. At the top you stated that you purchased 4 L1 Model II units.
But in this post you say you purchased 3 more Model I units?
So you have 7 units total?
the plan was to get 4 L1 Model II. I did bought 1 for my self for home. My band bought 3 L1 M1 to save money. We have 4 in the band, bass, guitar, drum and keyboard.
i'm one of this band member. i play vdrums and using TD-10/TD-8. we originally bought 1 L1 M2, but then there were a deal on craigslist for 3 L1 M1 and 10 sub B1 with packlite and 1 L1 Compact. In our band we have 2 keyboards, 1 bass, 1 guitar with effects and midi synth for guitar, 1 vdrums and 4 vocals. We use Shure Beta 87 for all vocals. We set up 2 L1M1 as main in front of our band with 4 B1 sub each side. We use 1 L1M1 with 2 B1 sub between bass player and keyboard player, little bit behind them. We set up like this if you looking up the stage, keyboards is on the left, then 1 L1M1 as monitor, bass player, vdrums player, then guitar player. Sometimes i hardly hear what i play from the monitor [L1M1], it seem like bass and vdrums play at the same time would **** out the L1M1 on the stage. The two front L1M1 get feedback from delay/reverb of vocals, we had to lower the delay/reverb and our singers complained At first when setting up, we test the sounds without audiance it sounded good. But when 500+ guest came in it different Any help/suggestions? Thanks.
This is Tuan Nguyen, desktopeditor's brother, we are a family band with 4 members (all brothers from same parents
Please take a look at the attached pics and advice us how to get the best sound from them. We are debating whether or not to use them again on our next show on 7/6/12 or sale them on Craigslist and go back to conventional JBL speakers which we dont really want to.
Thanks in advance.
This is Tuan Nguyen, desktopeditor's brother, we are a family band with 4 members (all brothers from same parents
Please take a look at the link to see our set up and advice us how to get the best sound from them. We are debating whether or not to use them again on our next show on 7/6/12 or sale them on Craigslist and go back to conventional JBL speakers which we dont really want to.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks for the clarification. You have 4 L1 Model 1 units.
From the photo you've provided, I believe you're getting feedback from a couple of issues - multiple sound sources, placement and even possibly the gain staging.
A couple of questions that may help us give you some better answers. . .
Since there are 4 of you and you have 4 L1 Model 1 systems, is there a reason why you each don't go into a separate L1 system? You've set up the 4 systems similar to a traditional PA system, and the Bose L1 system is not designed that way. They were designed to work together ~ by working separately. In other words, each member would plug into their own system and control their volumes individually - and you would be hearing what the audience was hearing, no more volume wars because if you could hear each other clearly on stage, then so could your audience.
I notice that you have 4 B1 units stacked near one L1 on each side. Since the L1 unit is only designed to handle 2 B1 units, how are you powering the other two? Or perhaps an easier way to ask is - are all 4 the B1 units (on each side) connected to the same L1 unit?
You may also need to set up your gain stages properly to get maximum headroom before feedback.
If you give us some answers to these questions we can hopefully steer you in the right direction. You have a great system, and there is no reason that you shouldn't enjoy great sound if setup properly.
we have 3 L1 M1, 1 L1 compact, 10 B1 sub and 2 Power Packlite. Please show us how to setup the gain stages to get maximum headroom to get rid of feedback? thanks. Singers from our band when sing need delay/reverb if we plug everything into L1 M1 base then we need to buy tonematch engine? We have 2 keyboards, guitar bass, lead guitar with synthesizer, vdrums with 4-6 outputs, 4 vocals . Total about 15 inputs we need.
1) the reason we did not use separate L1 for each player because we would like use our own mixer which will signal out all instrument simultaneously to all for L1. And plus, we don't know how to handle vocalist (we have 3 vocal mics) if we don't use our own mixer.
2) We use the 1 Bose Powerpack for the extra 2 B1. So 2 B1 are connected to the L1 power base, and 2 B1 are connected to the Bose powerpack.
3) I would like to know what is the maximum distance from the audiences to the L1 in order to get "what we hear is what the audience hear" ?
4) We get praised from the few audience who came early to the venue while we do the rehearsal. They said the sound was so great. But when the 500 audience came then the dissapointment happen. Is that telling something?
another reason that we want to run all instruments into our mixer and the signal out to 4 L1 simultaneously is to get the maximum power outputs (I may be wrong).
for example, if we run separately, 1 guitar to 1 L1 then maximum power output of the guitar is only 500 Watts (I assumed the L1 have 500 Watts output). But if we run the guitar to our mixer then out to all 4 L1 then would give us the total out put of 4 x 500 Watts = 2000 watts? Please correct me if I am wrong.
We have only 3 B1M1 and 1 Compact.
The front two B1 each connected to 4B1, 2B1 to M1 and the other 2 through 1 packlite.
The front two B1 in replacement of main conventional PA speakers, the other B1 on back next to the drum and the compact are replaced for monitor conventional speackers.
We play asian music, which require echo effects for vocal, so if we put all L1 behind the band will there be feed back because of echo effect ? most stage we performed have limit space, so there's no space for us to stand far from the L1, could you or ST help us how to set it up to avoid feed back ?
we have 4 members, 2 inputs for keyboard, 1 for bass, 4 for electronic Roland Drums, 1 for guitar amp, 1 for guiter synthersizer, 3-5 mics for vocal, so we have to use our Mackie mixer.
We get output from main out of Mackie to input into one of the channel of the L1 in front (left and right). we did not use our crossover, is the L1 have crossover embeded ?
the L1 on the back is monitor for whole band with 2B1, and the compact is monitor for vocal with less echo to avoid feed back.
So we are using only 2L1, 8B1, 2 packlite for the main speaker infront of stage (left and right), and the third L1, 2B1 for band monitor, and the compact for vocal. I guess we have not correctly set them up.
Is it a waste if we use the third L1, 2B1 and the compact just for MONITOR ?
You were talking about "the gain staging" what is that ? may be key is here ??
Waiting for your help and from ST
Thanks in advance
Here is what I would do if I were in your shoes:
Try to use the L1 systems as close to how they were intended to be used as possible (no one input in more than one L1 - with the L1 in the vicinity of the performer(s) to which it is connected).
If you do this - you will only need 7 inputs (one for each of 4 instruments and 3 vocal mics). You will not need stereo keys or quad drums. Stero imaging is not part of the plan. You have 14 inputs available as it stands now.
I would place all of the L1s in use behind the band - and I would properly gain stage each input as described in the Bose manuals.
Going by the pictures on your Facebook link - I would set the keyboard player and one singer up in the far left L1 Model 1, with 1 or 2 B1s (as necessary for the room). I would put the bass player and a singer in the next L1 Model 1 to the right of the first Model 1 - with 2, 3 or 4 B1s. I would put the drummer next along the back wall and connect him and the third singer to the second L1 Model 1 with 2, 3 or 4 B1s. Then lastly - I would put the guitar all the way to the right in the Compact.
That would allow you to fit on that stage - and get the most out of the great inventory of gear that you have ammassed.
Next - how to handle your vocal effects?
There are a number of ways that you can go on this one. Personally - I would get rid of the mixer and buy a total of three T1s. Then you would have the fully optimized Bose system - with an unbelievable amount of flexibility.
If that is not an option for you - you can buy any number of outboard devices that can add echos and/or reverb to your singal chains. Some can be had quite inexpensively.
If you are keeping your mixer - and it has the effects that you need built in, you could run two of the vocal mics through that - pan one hard left and the other hard right and take the left output to one of the L1s - and the right output to another L1.
Bottom line is that you guys have come so far and have all the stuff that you need to sound awesome. The further you stray from the intended use of the gear - the more likely you are to struggle with feedback and phase cancellation issues.
Let the music be mixed in the air - vice that Mackie - and you will really start to enjoy the L1 experience.
Best of luck to you.
AKA John O'Neil
Lead Vocals/R. Guitar for nine 8 central
PRS Series EG2
Ovation Custom Balladeer 1612
TC Helicon VoiceLive 2
Blue enCore 300 Condenser Mic
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