I appreciate the thoughts and help on this so much, and the questions. Though the suggestion to connect the iPod differently solved the problem, it still doesn't answer my question as to why the same cable setup I have from the iPod (3.5 mm stereo out of the iPod into 1/4" stereo phone) works on channels 1-3, but not on either of 4/5. It truly is unbalanced in either input of 4/5 but I just don't know why given it's the same cable arrangement.

Channels 1-3 are perfect with that setup, strong, good bass and you hear all of it. When that rig is connected to either input of 4/5 the singing is nearly completely lost in an echo, though some of the song is still audible.

This is not something I can't work around, and have, but the question does remain. This way I have to pick and choose where different components are connected so as to preserve as many inputs as possible. I hate to take up both inputs of 4/5 with just the iPod, although it sounds perfect that way as it does in either of Channels 1-3.

Thank y'all so much for your thoughts.

Lord, I'm so much trouble! But here's another thought that might help some of you more in the know than I.

Maybe it's the "line out" deal. Here's what my Apple Macintosh Guru son had me try. The keyboard is a Yamaha PSR3000 that we were working with, not any of my others.

When I connect that keyboard to either input of Channel 4/5 using the line out as is the norm on the back of the keyboard, it does equally as well as on Channels 1-3, this I had already determined.

BUT, if I connect to either of Channels 4/5 from the headphone jack of the keyboard it too sounds as trashy as the iPod did. My son tells me this is the same type output the iPod is using. He's saying for an iPod to sound as it should on Channels 4/5 then it's got to be using a line out instead of the headphone jack as is normally used, and as I have it connected. Such is available through a docking adapter readily available from Apple. The dock then provides a line out that would sound right, and provide that one is not limited to only the normally used headphone out jack on top of the iPod.

My question, however, remains the same I guess as to why the iPod sounds great on Channels 1-3 using the normally used headphone jack of the iPod, and trashes out on Channels 4/5.

Just an effort at some enlightenment.

Thank y'all so much, you're the best.

God Bless.

BFM -

You are right. Channels 4 and 5 support balanced mono inputs. That means they amplify the difference between the signal on the tip and the signal on the ring of the TRS connector. The sleeve is connected to the cable shield.

When a TRS connector is used for stereo, instead of balanced mono, like Pon first used, the tip is left, the ring is right (maybe visa versa, I always have to look it up) and the sleeve is ground. If you amplify the difference between left and right, you eliminate all the mono information in the stereo mix. The sound that would come from the center between two speakers. And that will usually sound pretty bad, since most mixes have a lot of mono content.

Both types of 1/4" connectors (TS and TRS) fit into the same jacks, but since the signals are different they'll behave differently.

If you separate the ipod signal by putting the left channel on one TS 1/4" adapter, and the right on another, using the "Y" cable that ST shows, then put them into channels 4 and 5 (or 1 and 2 for that matter), the T1 will add the two channels, and it will sound much better (stereo mixed to mono).

A caveat - if you use a stereo TRS 1/4" cable into channels 1,2, or 3, the ring is shorted to ground and you will just hear one channel. It will be clear, but if you want both channels you need to uise a "Y" connector.

That's what happened to you, Pon!

Don't know if this summary will help:



TRS: balanced mono
Tip - audio signal plus
Ring - audio signal minus
Sleeve - shield (ground)

TRS: Stereo
Tipe - left audio
Ring Right audio
Sleeve - ground

TS: mono
Tip - audio signal
sleeve - ground

confused yet?
Bill

I thank you so much!

But now so you're saying I'll get better sound from the iPod if I use both inputs of Channel 4/5.? Rather than connecting and getting only one side on Channels 1-3.?

Again, I appreciate this so much.

Pon:

If you have an iPod model with a dock connector it is said to give a better quality signal if you take the iPod output from the dock connector instead of the headphone jack, thereby bypassing the iPod headphone amplifier.

I use an iPod nano and get a great sound by using a "dock connector" cable that plugs into the iPod dock and then terminates in two RCA phono connectors. These go via adapters into 1/4" TS plugs that go into the channel 4 and 5 inputs. Steve

Never heard of such an iPod 'dock connector.' Can you provide a description or possibly a link perhaps?

Hi Jazzhorn:

Just go to Google and put in "iPod dock connector rca" and you'll get a whole lot of choices. PC Connection has one for $9.00

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Bill-at-Bose:
A caveat - if you use a stereo TRS 1/4" cable into channels 1,2, or 3, the ring is shorted to ground and you will just hear one channel.

Bill,

does this mean, that channel 1-3 besides balanced XLR only supports unbalanced TS (especially NO balanced TRS as described in the manual p.4)?

Wolfgang

quote:

Originally posted by Pon:
I thank you so much!

But now so you're saying I'll get better sound from the iPod if I use both inputs of Channel 4/5.? Rather than connecting and getting only one side on Channels 1-3.?

Again, I appreciate this so much.

Yes, you'll get both stereo channels mixed to mono, instead of just one channel.
Bill

Yes, I'm glad to, here is one source: http://sendstation.com/

Then here's the one at Apple: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleS...C44215&nplm=MA045G/C

Thanks, have a good day and God bless.

Thanks so much Steve, I appreciate your sharing. You know, I never gave any of this any thought though I've used the iPod for a very long time for breaks and such. I'm thinking that with our testing you're absolutely right, the sound is better coming from the line out rather than the headphone jack, which is probably most normally used.

But I'll tell you one thing, I've never heard my iPod sound as good as it does through that Bose! It's something to behold, no doubt.

Thanks again, have a good one.

quote:

Originally posted by BlackForestMan:

Bill,

does this mean, that channel 1-3 besides balanced XLR only supports unbalanced TS (especially NO balanced TRS as described in the manual p.4)?

Wolfgang

I think in the specific sense that you mean, yes. But what the manual states is correct in another way. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to be cute or anything - we chose (or tried to choose!) the wording in the manual to represent what we thought would help customers the most. Maybe we will need more detail.

For inputs 1-3, you can physically plug a TS or TRS 1/4" plug into the jack, and get perfect fidelity.

If you have a balanced line source and TRS cable, and plug into an unbalanced input (1,2,3), you may not get as much resistance to induced noise or potential ground loop hum as you will if you plug into the balanced inputs (4,5).

Our Master and Aux outputs are actually balanced, so you will have an advantage on noise if you use a TRS, but they accept a TS also. So there we also wrote that they "accept" both TS and TRS.

I hope that helps, thanks for the feedback.
Bill

[edited for clarity]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bill-at-Bose,

Bill,

thank you very much for your clarification on what "accepts balanced TRS" does mean on channel 1-3 and what it does mean on channel 4/5.
From what I understand, all channels accept all sort of plugs which are physical possible (TS, TRS, XLR).
But for true balanced inputs I must use either ch-1-3 XLR or ch-4/5 TRS.

Wolfgang

You have it right.

Enjoy,
Bill

Just as a mixed output was a glaring omission from the L1 (which I have), I would say the absence of a footswitch to cut effects from one channel (main mic) and an a/b effect switch for another channel (to change guitar from rythem to lead) is big obvious missing feature from the T1. (Although I have been quite specific, I expect one could have a two button, fully programmable foot-switch, had it been included) If it had that, I would buy one. As it is, I won't. Shame.


Andrew Royson

Andrew, do you normally have the ability to change vocal effects while singing the song? I'm asking because that ability is usually only provided by a full time sound engineer or an effects box you already own. The same might be said of the mountain of gear that is available (and incredible) that would allow you to do the same with a guitar going from "rhythm to lead".

The T1 does quite a bit more than a standard "mixer", especially when you look at the number of effects, the "per channel" use of effects, and the quality of effect, and especially for this price point. Most times, you'll be using something either entirely through a song or swapping between songs. If you want easy access, get the mic stand mount and have it at your fingertips all night.

The things the T1 offers beyond the standard modulation (the saveable scenes, the parametric EQ, Tone Match, updateable information) make it a great value even with just those things inside.

quote:

Originally posted by aroyson:
the absence of a footswitch to cut effects from one channel (main mic) and an a/b effect switch for another channel (to change guitar from rythem to lead)

Hi:

quote:

"I would say the absence of a footswitch to cut effects from one channel (main mic) and an a/b effect switch for another channel (to change guitar from rythem to lead) is big obvious missing feature from the T1."

It would have been nice to have some kind of defeat footswitch included, that could be used on one of the channels, but I got around that by using a Boss A/B footswitch that allows me to feed my guitar into two inputs: one without effects, and one with. By stomping on the switch I can go from no effects to effects 'on-the-fly', or from one type of effects to another, etc. This works for me because I'm not sharing the T1 with anyone else when playing solo, etc. Might not be practical if you're using the T1 in other than a solo performer situation, or if you're using all the inputs already, etc.

Stu

BigKyle
I turn the mic echo on and off by footswitch, usually between songs, but sometimes between verses to say something or tell a one line joke. This is a standard funtion on nearly all echo boxes, like the Yamaha R100 I use. I also use a Zoom amp simulator to switch from rythem to solo. I work alone (no engineer). My point is, if the T1 had pedal switches I could loose both these pieces of kit. I'm just trying to give you ideas for the next version of the T1 and hope others might agree that it would be a good idea.

Andrew

This message has been edited. Last edited by: aroyson [Andrew],

quote:

Originally posted by BlackForestMan:
[...
And there is no reverb on the AUX (and probably no tonematch processing).

Wolfgang

Is this accurate? The text in the manual appears to say that the Pre and Post settings are routed "...with applied processing." To me, applied processing includes Tonematch, eq, effects, etc...or not?

The Dry setting is clearly noted as (no processing). This implies the Tonematch eq occurs later in the signal chain, probably in the same DSP as the other eq/effects/processing. Can someone-at-Bose clarify this, please?

(edited spelling)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Apps,

Hi Apps,

The manual is correct, Although there is no reverb on the Aux output, all other Effects and Presets are preset.

Reference: No Reverb on Aux.
- there are notes in the linked resource from Hilmar-at-Bose