New discussion for Sharper123

Moved Reply:

My first post, though I've been lurking awhile now and reading up on this intriguing technology in these forums off and on for a couple years. It appears to me that the model 1 also has the benefit of pass thru outputs so the signals could be snaked to a conventional foh pa system in a venue that is too large for the model 1 to cover alone. model II seems to lack this capability, which capability was probably pretty necessary in the early PAS era when the innovators were trying to utilize hybrid systems to accomodate others in their bands who were reluctant to change the old ways and invest in a PAS. Perhaps the elimination of that full range line out capability is intended to eliminate the stodgy clinging to old tech foh systems by a now more mature and experienced PAS users group. sort of a "It's time to commit and stop clinging to the old ways" by removing the option to hybridize (which admittedly loses much of the benefit of the new Bose PAS approach.) However, I think it would still be useful to have that line thru capability in the model II, because I still think there are a lot of musicians out there who would benefit from exposure to the sound quality of the system with T1 even if only serving primarily as a monitor for those on stage and being patched thru to the conventional foh systems so many are accustomed to and comfortable with (presumably the foh engineer can always reduce gain on the PAS owners patched thru instrument or vocal to account for its better projection from the stage and thereby create an appropriate mix in the room, provided the PAS owner doesn't make unanticipated changes in his volume during the middle of the set) Am I speculating on a change that is not as I understand it, but I think the model II can only pass thru the bass portion of the input signal, through the output intended to patch to the packlite and B1s. I'm sure Bose folks on forum will correct me if I'm wrong about this difference between model 1 and II, but I would also appreciate their insights as to why such a capability was abandoned in the newer model II. By the way, more generally, it seems to me that the discussion in these forums is extremely informative and useful and a learning tool for both Bose and the users, , and Bose seems to be open to allowing some to criticize or to post their problems with their application of the systems, and so seems to be open to criticisms and even handed (though obviously I cant tell what posts have been deleted by the forum administrators), and overall this forum is a very necessary marketing tool for a product as revolutionary and costly as the PAS. Since most of us will approach such an investment pretty cautiously, it helps to see others jump into the water and tell us it is nice in there.

Hi Sharper123,

Thank you for joining the forum and stepping into the light.

quote:

Originally posted by Sharper123:
My first post, though I've been lurking awhile now and reading up on this intriguing technology in these forums off and on for a couple years.

It appears to me that the model 1 also has the benefit of pass thru outputs so the signals could be snaked to a conventional foh pa system in a venue that is too large for the model 1 to cover alone.

You can do this for the Model I Channels 1 and 2. The line out is post trim meaning that it is basically a clone of the original input with no signal processing except to add gain.

quote:

Model II seems to lack this capability, which capability was probably pretty necessary in the early PAS L1® era when the innovators were trying to utilize hybrid systems to accommodate others in their bands who were reluctant to change the old ways and invest in a PAS L1®.

The Model II Power Stand has a single analog input and a digital input. The digital input is for a T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine.

The T1® has more inputs than the Model I (or Classic) Power Stand AND it has several different line out capabilities that can be used with external systems:

• Master Out ¼ inch jack (balanced)
  basically a clone of the signal that is sent to the Model II Power Stand
  This is a mix of all the channels with all effects and signal processing
  
• Aux Out ¼ inch jack (balanced)
  a separate mix of all the channels with all effects and signal processing except reverb.
  
• USB output
  Used for recording
  
• Line outs for Channels 1,2,3
  Individual Channels post-trim
  This is the most similar to the line out capability of the Model I (or Classic) Power Stand except with the Model I (or Classic) Power Stand you had only two channels with this capability.
  

quote:

Perhaps the elimination of that full range line out capability is intended to eliminate the stodgy clinging to old tech foh systems by a now more mature and experienced PAS L1® users group. sort of a "It's time to commit and stop clinging to the old ways" by removing the option to hybridize (which admittedly loses much of the benefit of the new Bose PAS L1® approach.)

The Model I (or Classic) Power Stand did not have a full range line out capability in the sense that there was no single combined line out for all the input Channels.

quote:

However, I think it would still be useful to have that line thru capability in the model II, because I still think there are a lot of musicians out there who would benefit from exposure to the sound quality of the system with T1 even if only serving primarily as a monitor for those on stage and being patched thru to the conventional foh systems so many are accustomed to and comfortable with (presumably the foh engineer can always reduce gain on the PAS

The capability is available directly from the T1®.

quote:

L1® owners patched thru instrument or vocal to account for its better projection from the stage and thereby create an appropriate mix in the room, provided the PAS L1® owner doesn't make unanticipated changes in his volume during the middle of the set)

The T1® Aux output can be set to Pre-Fader so that the L1® can make changes with the stage mix (Master output) without affecting the signal sent to some external system.

quote:

Am I speculating on a change that is not as I understand it, but I think the model II can only pass thru the bass portion of the input signal, through the output intended to patch to the packlite and B1s. I'm sure Bose folks on forum will correct me if I'm wrong about this difference between model 1 and II, but I would also appreciate their insights as to why such a capability was abandoned in the newer model II.

Bose moved the user interface, the inputs and outputs, and signal processing from the Model I (or Classic) Power Stand to the T1® leaving the Model II Power Stand with only a couple of inputs. One input, the analog input (¼ inch jack balanced) is useful if you have a third party mixer or sound source. The other input is a digital connection (ToneMatch® Port) exclusively for the T1®.

I think you can accomplish everything you mentioned above, with the T1®.

quote:

By the way, more generally, it seems to me that the discussion in these forums is extremely informative and useful and a learning tool for both Bose and the users, , and Bose seems to be open to allowing some to criticize or to post their problems with their application of the systems, and so seems to be open to criticisms and even handed (though obviously I cant tell what posts have been deleted by the forum administrators),

[link coming to Bose policy about moderation of posts]

quote:

Originally posted by Ken-at-Bose:
Why don't my posts appear immediately?
Moderators look at posts before sending them onto the public forum.

We are looking for vulgar language and posts that are either deliberately or mistakenly about something other than the L1® family of products.

We welcome all kinds of feedback, including criticism. Negative reviews are NEVER a reason for rejecting a post.

quote:

and overall this forum is a very necessary marketing tool for a product as revolutionary and costly as the PAS L1®. Since most of us will approach such an investment pretty cautiously, it helps to see others jump into the water and tell us it is nice in there.

I hope that you will find that this site is support tool for prospective, new and seasoned L1® owners.

There is a companion site, the Bose L1® Encyclopedia, FAQ and wiki too.


Thanks again for joining the forum.



ps PAS is now L1®
This is a trademark concern.
-- click image for details--

quote:

I cant tell what posts have been deleted by the forum administrators),

Hi

I have found that the only posts that Bose will delete are the ones that openly attack or criticize another members post. This forum is a wonderful "sharing" experience and Bose wants to keep it that way. I agree. Hopefully you will enjoy it. Welcome!

ST -- thanks for your detailed reply addressing all of my questions and (implicit) misunderstandings about the systems differences between model I and II. Clearly there seems to be greater flexibility in a number of ways with the LII with t-1 and no loss of the capabilities inherent to the LI. guess the LII system really has to be evaluated with the T-1 as an integral part for anyone other than a DJ, (which I think is reported in other threads/forums as the only real reason why someone would buy an LII without a t-1.)
More generally, I have also greatly appreciated your extensive and informative postings in a great number of the other threads i have perused in the Forum -- really well informed and clear in explaining. thanks - you are a great benefit to this community