New discussion for Jukebox Joe responding to

quote:

Originally posted by User Review:
L1® Compact - Three Day Review.

This is a summary of my comments in Compact is here!.


Last week I was able to borrow an L1® Compact for 3 days. Mine is on the way but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to put this one through its paces during this weekend hiatus of its touring schedule. This is the one unit in western Canada being demo'd at various retail stores.

I am sorry to see it go, but mine should be here soon. Here are some initial impressions after living with it for three days in the studio and out at a gig.

My perspective is that of an L1® owner for nearly five years (Classic, then Model II with T1® with PackLite® and more B1s). I play solo, in several duos and a band. I perform with the T1® or the R1 Remote on the microphone stand in front of me, and the L1® is usually directly behind me.

Testing Conditions
The Space
Most of my listening tests and comparisons were done in a space that is about 1400 square feet, basically square, with a lot of sound aborbing materials. This space is very similar many of the coffee house, restaurant or house concert venues I frequent. It is also where I rehearse with my Model II and Classic.

The Gear
I used several microphones, guitars (electric and acoustic), electric bass, and a PorchBoard.

Compared to
Most of the comparisons were to the Model II with a T1® because that is what I use most often when performing.
full thread here

-- ST --

Moved Reply:

Thanks for the great review. I currently own the L1 (no additional base module) and have been EXTREMELY satisfied with it. However, the sight of a compact version of this system has me drooling, particularly in terms of how much easier it might be on my back! (The amp base is heavy). However, I have 2 concerns: 1 - the sound volume and dropoff, and 2 - the tone control.

On the first concern, the majority of my gigs seem to fit the Compact better than the L1, as my gigs tend to be small restaurants, coffee shops, and private engagements. However, once in a while I do a carnival or outdoor park event where the volume and lack of dropoff of the L1 is awesome, and I would be afraid of losing that. I know it's hard to quantify, but how would the Compact stack up against the L1? Are we talking about "not quite as loud" or are wwe talking about "don't even think about using this for an outdoor event"?

On the tone controls, I am used to the hi/mid/lo control on the remote (and I DO adjust that midrange control depending on the environment). Again, I know it's hard to quantify, but how much tonal control is lost? I use the Shure SM57 and a high end Ovation (1778T) guitar.

Thanks! (I may have to just do a side by side. Does the evaluation extend to current L1 owners?)

Hi Jukebox Joe,

Thanks for your kind comments on the review.

One thing you might really appreciate:

Your L1® Classic / Model I without a B1 goes down to about 110 Hz. The L1® Compact goes down to about 65 Hz.

You will probably get more pronounced low end from your Guitar and maybe, depending on your voice - you'll get more low end body for your voice.

It's going to be tough to predict performance outside. Right now, you are probably not projecting much low end bass very far. You are probably getting great projection for the upper bass and above.

You might find that the the L1® Compact will give you a more balanced sound (lows and highs). And then for the outdoor gigs you can use the Line-Out to a larger system if there is one. If there is no larger system, then ... well ... that's a tough one to predict.

As far as quantifying the difference: That's hard. "not quite as loud" will depend on where you are listening. Compared to the Classic / Model I, the Compact has a much smoother distribution of mids and highs as you move off to the sides. So if you are standing off to the sides your perception might well be, that the Compact is louder.

Straight ahead, I think you could make the case that the Classic / Model I is louder than the Compact - but again that will be tempered by the distance at which you are listening - AND - and your subjective preference for having more low end (below 110 Hz) in the mix.

quote:

Originally posted by Jukebox Joe:
Thanks! (I may have to just do a side by side. Does the evaluation extend to current L1 owners?)

I think you are right - you probably need to put them side-by-side.

The 45 day return policy is probably applicable here.

You can read about that on the main Bose site:
Returns and Exchanges

(note: 45 days for L1® Systems)


Did that help?

Yes, that helped alot. I most certainly would appreciate the low end and smoother sound across the spectrum, since my second concern is the lack of a midrange control, and of course this concern would vanish if the tone of the compact gave me the midrange response that I desire. With the classic L1, a subtle cut in the midrange provides a sweet spot for my voice through a Shure SM57. As I said, I'll just have to try a compact out.

I'll post my findings when I do

Okay. Here we go! I picked up the Compact yesterday, took it home and did a side by side with the Model I (no B1), then took the Compact to an outdoor gig.

Bottom line: the Compact wins (for this small outdoor venue)! Now the details, for anyone interested in this particular comparison:

While the Model 1 can go audibly louder and with less feedback, the Compact has such a sharper sound that you really do not need as much volume, and this is no sales pitch. The more defined the sound, the less necessary it is to go louder. I played both at their maximum volume before they started feeding back, and the Compact's tone was more pleasant, and with sufficient volume to be the clear winner. Keep in mind the Compact also has a remarkably better bass response than the Model I without the B1. The Compact would feed back with my Ovation guitar at full volume if I did not roll off a little bit of bass on the guitar's EQ. This little bass cut was necessary with either system, so eliminating the feedback in this manner was completely acceptable.

My next concern was that the Compact did not have a midrange knob as with the Model I. However, the Compact's built-in Tonematch seems to have effectively tweaked the sound by rolling off that nasty midrange that makes a vocal and guitar sound comparitively hollow (even through the Model I at its default settings), effectively eliminating the need for a midrange knob. update: this only holds true for outdoor. For indoors, posted later, the lack of a midrange control proved to be a big problem. Obviously you can tweak to your heart's content with a Tonematch module, but this test was only between bare systems.

Next came the real test of the shorter projection of the Compact compared to the Model I, which was an actual outdoor gig (an outdoor restaurant/bar seating about 75 people, with plenty of passers by around the block). Now I'm really going to sound like a Bose salesman!

This little soundsystem is unbelievable! For starters, the setup is so light and simple that it feels wrong! It does not feel like you're actually setting up a PA! Carrying the thing in one trip (the included gig bag and base cover are a VERY nice touch) made my back cry tears of joy. But after assembling the system in half the time and effort it took to set up the Model I (which was already half the time and effort it took to set up a non-cylindrical PA), the real test would be the sound projection.

To put it mildly, it passed the test! Again, as mentioned above, the sound was SO clear that I did not NEED the extra volume. Even with the volume knobs at about the 11 o'clock setting, it was too loud for this venue, and I have no doubt now that it will suffice for even larger gigs. (As with the Model I, I had people down the block listening in and telling me they could hear it so clearly they thought I was right around the corner from them). Mind you, neither the Compact nor the L1 will fill Madison Square Garden, but for small venues, the Model I (without a B1) does not offer better sound than the Compact update: this only applies to small outdoor venues. Indoors, the Model I offers much warmer sound than the Compact, which sounded harsher by comparison. On the contrary, the wider bass response of the Compact gave it the edge over the Model I, hands down (outdoors)

As the gig went on, I heard guitar and vocal nuances that I never heard through my Model I. Please believe the marketing literature when it says that this system produces a sound that rivals studio quality production. With the right tweaking (in my case a little bass rolloff of the mic, a Shure SM57, and a little bass rolloff on the Ovation 1778T), the sound that came out of this little system was literally studio quality.

This review would not be complete without a couple of more points that matter to me. First is the floor real estate you gain over the Model I. This is not negligible for those gigs where you're stuffed into a corner or between a table and a huge potted plant. The smaller footprint of the Compact is soooo nice!

Secondly, I have to mention the aesthetic of this unassuming little unit. The Model I already gets enough comments because of its slick profile. The Compact - even moreso! I literally sat there at the end of the gig and stared at the Compact for a few minutes before breaking it down. I could not believe the projection that came out of this slim little unit.

Next to my guitar, this was the best thousand dollars I have ever spent. If, like me, you have a Model I with no B1 and are considering this unit, it has my vote to put it mildly! Again, this only applies to small outdoor venues. Indoors, the Model I was far superior. Thank you, Bose, for designing this. It is a treat to look at, listen to, set up, break down, and even carry! I think of other musicians now who spend up to 20 minutes setting up their PA, breaking their backs carrying their speakers, only to sound muddy and hollow by comparison. Yes, the Compact is more expensive than a "standard" PA, but you get what you pay for, and this system delivers even more than its predecessor.

Home run, guys. Now, just add a midrange control to make it more listenable indoors!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jukebox Joe,

Hey there Jukebox Joe,

Thank you SO much for your detailed comparison.

You did a really nice job of anticipating what I would want to know about the performance of the Compact in these different situations.

Nice job.

Oh - and congratulations on getting your new Compact. Sounds like a keeper.

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the inspiration. I just spent the best part of an hour with an Ovation Thunderbolt plugged into the Compact.



--== click the picture to see it in context ==--

Funny lookin' I know. A cross-over piezo with super slick neck for the metal-head looking to go "unplugged".

This sounds exactly like most of the super slimline Ovations from the late 80s - the ones with OP24 electronics.

Very characteristic Ovation of the day.


So: Compact + Thunderbolt

That works!

That's a real head turner you have there ST....

nib

Followup: First INDOOR gig.
Result: letdown compared to outdoors!

Well, much to my chagrin, the Compact that actually outperformed the Model I outdoors (with no B1) actually fell short of the Model I indoors! If anything, I would have expected it to be the other way around. Here are the gory details:

Remember in my previous post how I explained that the midrange was nicely rolled off by default, compensating for the lack of a midrange knob? Well, this turned out to be a major hindrance when it came to playing indoors, where I needed that midrange! The resulting sound was too exaggerated on the low and high end, without the midrange to balance out the sound. This was not a problem outdoors where the Compact's isolated high and low end actually sound better than the Model I's more midrangy sound. But indoors was a completely different story. That lack of midrange (which cannot be cut or boost) now makes me ask painfully: Why oh why did they not give us a sipmle little midrange knob

But as I broke down the system at the end of the gig, I was reminded once again about how amazingly light and the Compact is, and I could not give up hope. The hope is to try the T1 on the Compact (and when I say "on", that's actually a misnomer, for another painful oversight is the lack of mountability on the Compact All it takes to address this is some kind of simple rail or frame on the base of the Compact to accommodate a T1.)

Hopefully the tonal shaping possible with the T1 will allow me to recapture that midrange sweetspot that I find with the good old Model I (for which I must say I now have a newfound appreciation for). I am optimistic about the Compact, though, and I will post my results next week. I have another indoor gig, and I will try out the T1 with the Compact.

My fingers are crossed, and may the Force be with me.

To be continued...

Well, guess what? My old Model I came back from getting knocked down by the Compact at an outdoor and knocked the Compact out indoors and retained the crown! Once again, for those interested, here are the gory details:

Totally psyched by my outdoor experience (where the Compact's hi's and lo's cut through better than the Model I), I was expecting the same results indoors. But as reported earlier, there was TOO much hi's and TOO much lo's (even rolled off) and nothing in the middle (compared to the Model I, that is)! But spurred on by how beautiful and compact the Compact really is, I had to try it with a T1, EQ'd to compensate for the lack of midrange warmth that I cannot do without.

Well, the Tone Match Engine DID make a difference, just not ENOUGH of a difference. After a four hour gig, my ears were ringing because of the harsh hi's of the system This has NEVER happened with the Model I, where I have experienced zero ear fatigue. Maybe the Model I is warmer and the Compact harsher because the Model I has the larger drivers and the longer array, whereas the Compact has smaller cones that are great for higher highs, but at the price of warmer mids. I'm not a sound engineer, but I know what I hear, even if my guess as to why I hear it is incorrect.

Conclusion:
The new Compact certainly rocks. It even bested my Model I outdoors (in terms of clarity, not distance or warmth). However, indoors, the Model I has an unmatched warmth compared to the harshness of the Compact's hi's and lo's without the midrange. The Compact caused ear fatigue (even with the hi's and lo's rolled off), and this is not acceptable to my very sensitive ears.

If I had the money, I think I would actually own both systems for different venues. But since I can't currently afford both, I have to stick with the one that works everywhere without a hint of ear fatigue. If anything I have gained a newfound respect for my trusty old Model I. And just to be clear, the Model I never sounded less than fantastic outdoors. But the increased bass response and the crip hi's of the Compact did beat the Model I at the smaller venue that I played, hands down.)

So there you have it. The Compact looked as if it was the clear cut winner but the Model I works better overall (and doesn't sound bad ANYWHERE). In fact, now I may just have to try my model with a B1 after hearing the low end that I got from the Compact to see what it can REALLY do!

Anyway, to all who have followed my little saga, thanks for reading! The Compact is a serious little PA, and if you aren't already spoiled by the warmth and clarity of the Model I, get the Compact (just don't copmare it to a Model I indoors! ).

Hi Joe,

Regardless of your final decision on the Compact, you will love the Model I with a B1.

I just spent a couple of hours this morning with the Compact and T1. With just a little tweaking I can get a very similar sound for vocal and guitar from my saved ModeL II scenes, with the Compact.

I also spent some time straight in, with the vocal mics Treble control between max cut and the 9:00 position. this takes a little of the edge off, for a smoother, sound.

The dispearsion from the Compact base / bass speaker seems to be different in that it engulfs you immeadiately where the B1 seems to develope its ful potential a short distance from the cabinet. This is my perception and may not be exactly what is happening.

There is so much to like about the Compact that I hate to give up on it. I feel there is a place in my life for it, just have to figure how to best get that same consistent sound I have grown used to.

Although there are places that are too big for the Compact, thare are no places that are too small for a Model I or II. (OK, maybe some low ceilings) So it becomes somewhat of a trade off of the value of the convenience of transport and setup vs. the inconvenience of minor differences in sound.

Having a choice is great, I can make my decision of what to use based on venue size, length of gig, time constraints, or other factors that may present themselves at the time.

O..

Sounds like I need to try the B1! And I would certainly not dissuade anyone from relinquishing their Compact. On the contrary, I also give spoken presentations once in a while, where the Model I is overkill. For that type of gig, as well as small outdoor musical gigs, as I mentioned above, the Compact wins - hands down (keeing in mind I have no B1). And again, if I could afford to keep both systems I would. I can actually see myself owning both eventually just to have the option.

Thanks for posting!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jukebox Joe,