Howdy campers,

I hate to say it but after using the L1 for almost a year, I'm going DEAF! I've been in too many situations where I have to turn it up so loud that my ears are hurting and ringing at the end of the night. As a stand alone monitor, it's incredible. As the main PA in a loud environment, it's killing my hearing because it's right behind me. The reason for buying the L1 was to carry as little gear as possible and still get great sound quality. Unfortunately, I'm now paying the price for having it right behind me at loud volumes for hours at a time.

SOLUTION: I've gone back to using regular speakers (Mackie 450 V2) but I'm using them WITH the Bose T1 Mixer to have the best of both worlds. This now allows me to put the speakers left, right and slightly in front of me. I've also (purposely) am not using a floor monitor. I no longer have the clarity of the Bose sitting behind me but I'm no longer going deaf at the end of the night either. It's a trade off but my hearing is far more important to me and I pray I haven't done any permanent damage over this past year.

I still have nothing but praise and respect for the L1 but from now on I'll only be using it in front of quiet, small crowds.

I thought about this a lot last night when I turned up the master to 3 o'clock & sang & played at full volume. I wasn't getting the ringing I used to get at the end of the night in the bad old days, & I was only about 6 feet in front of a Classic with a bass player next to me & a drummer only 5 feet away - all on L1®'s. I was playing some pretty screaming distorted leads last night too.

I've been using the L1® for almost 5 years, & even in the loudest band environment my ears don't hurt like they used to with blaring amps & horned monitors.

Kova, is your sound harsh? I may have more years of ear damage so that I don't notice the volume as you do, but if it's harsh maybe that can be smoothed out or something? I just hate to see you give up the clarity of the Bose for a traditional system.

Tom

Kova

Don't give up on a great sound because your ears are being effected by having the L1 system behind you. My ears felt the same way so I simply now place my Bose to my left or right and slightly forward of me and then turn the tower just a tad..... ( 15o ) in towards the center. ( towards me ). Others have said they have done the same and it is easier on the ears. OF course you will get "advice" from people condemning this process but belive me the dancers on the floor will not notice anything. If you want to hear what they are hearing then walk out front during your sound check. LOL! Note: I did not buy the Bose system to have it act as a monitor and being able to "hear what the audience hears" I bought the Bose system to have great sound and less lugging. In the end there are two ways to set up your Bose System. "your way and the other guys way". Your way is the correct way. Don't let "expert" advice about placement, Eq's, this mic or that mic get in the way of your ears. Simply use those ears that you have trusted. They will never let you down. Put that Bose up front a bit. You bought it . you set it up the way you want to. Good Luck!

AJ

I don't understand.

When we need to turn up (and we play in ALL kinds of Venues playing ALL kind of music to EVERY kind of crowd) we just set up with the Bose in front of us.

Still no need for monitors.

(I grant you, the sound isn't as clear and wonderful as behind you 7-8 feet, but it's still VERY usable - heck, just throw it off to the side of you - even far away and off to the side it gets the whole room, band members can hear it, and you can turn up LOUD).

With the greatest respect, it seems like you haven't experimented with placement enough.

2 cents....

Hellboy

Thank you! Carla and I do a duo and we set up the same way. Thanks for reinforcing my post!
Where are you from?

AJ

quote:

I thought about this a lot last night when I turned up the master to 3 o'clock & sang & played at full volume.

As an example, I played outdoors at the Poolside this afternoon and had my Mic trim at 2:30, chan vol about 11:00, Track chan vol at 10:30-11:00, VL4 chan's at 10:00 and the Master at 10:30 to 11:00 most of the day, with plenty of volume around the pool area.

If your Master vol is at 3:00, what are the channel settings at?
Unless they are way down, I can't imagine the amount of volume around 3 o'clock on the master.

It's crankin', Joel. I don't like to play at that volume often, but I did last night. That band is not noted for dynamics.

Oh, what were the channel volumes - around 12 o'clock where they're supposed to be to have good gain structure. I was going into a T1 with the trim at about 2:00, the channel at 12:00, the master at 12:00, the input on channel 3 on the Classic at 10:00, & the master at 3:00. Everything was saturated at the peaks but I didn't get into the limiter on the amps.

quote:

t's crankin', Joel. I don't like to play at that volume often, but I did last night.

Hi Tom,

That's some serious volume, but if the room and the crowd calls for it, the L1/T1 system can sure put it out.

I don't think I had to go past 1 or 2 on the master T1 at the Parrot Head Poker run, with about 700-800 people, but I did have 2 remotes.

2 years later and I am still impressed with this system. Still the best investment. Now can I justify an L1 Compact, it sure looks neat and reviews well.

We'll see, it's very tempting.

I have also had the master at 3:00. It is loud. I have also moved the L1's out to the sides and to the front. That works pretty good. I agree with hellboy. Even using the L1 as a conventional PA is better sounding then the old box's on a stick.

Hi Kova,

quote:

I'm going DEAF!

If you are concerned, and it sounds like you are, then get to a hearing specialist, get yourself checked out and get some qualified advice. There is too much at risk here to take it lightly.

Sincerely

ST

A couple of points here I'd like advice on. We moved our L1 to the side and slightly in front to avoid feedback. Even there we can only get the master volume up to about 1 o'clock without feedback which surprised me. although the pole is turned in a bit we are also having problems when the (small ) dance floor in front fills up in hearing the drums / bass backing. Do others with the pole here not have any bother hearing what's coming out?

Think i'll have a go with your settings, Tom, to see if I can get anywhere near that ( although to be fair we aren't very experienced in making the little EQ tweaks you do). Also your mics might be more feedback resistant than ours ( Seinheissers 835/845).

We have a gig in a barn next month where I'm hopeful we can put the L1 back in its normal position and I'm really looking forward to that.

While we're on the subject ... does anyone know of an effective ear protection device(s)? I'm afraid I already have some permanent hearing loss and I'd like to try to save what hearing I have left.
Ciao,
Jerry

Thank you all for your concern and wonderful advice. It's greatly appreciated.

Like I said... I'm not abandoning my L1. I'm simply choosing to use it in front of small, quiet crowds from this point forward.

For the past 3 days in a row using this "traditional" set up, my ears are no longer ringing and I'm not waking up with a headache. Can I hear myself as clearly on stage without the Bose? No, but for now this is the route I must take to protect my hearing.

Thank you all again and I appreciate the concern and feedback. I'm very proud to be a part of the Bose community and still highly believe in this product.

quote:

Originally posted by AJ:
Hellboy

Thank you! Carla and I do a duo and we set up the same way. Thanks for reinforcing my post!
Where are you from?

AJ

Hey AJ, we're from Brisbane, the state of Queensland in Australia.

Lots of people around our neck of the woods have started to take a serious interest in the Bose system, and I've already fielded several enquiries (including another act calling me up out of the blue on my Mobile - Cell Phone for the U.S. people lol) asking to see us in action with the Bose.



Kova, I hope we didn't all get a bit too intense for you re our replies regarding your decision. I still DEFINITELY stand by my advice, and I feel what I said was directly relevant to your situation, but do what you will - whatever works for you, works for you.

Happy music making!

quote:

I've been using the L1® for almost 5 years, & even in the loudest band environment my ears don't hurt like they used to with blaring amps & horned monitors.

I'm with Tom on this...the clarity of the L1 is much easier on my ears than on stage guitar amps and monitors.

In the 4 years that I used ONLY L1s on stage, my hearing loss stayed the same (I already had partial loss and tinnitus). In this last year, since leaving my old band, I've been (mostly, with exceptions) sitting in with bands using traditional backline amps with L1s for vocals or 3-tier PA gear. My hearing has gone downhill drastically in this time...and I'm using earplugs!

I was accustomed to sitting in the middle of a CD-like sound onstage. Now it's like being on the floor of an assembly plant. So I put in my ear plugs and daydream of what it's going to be like when I can find another group of enlightened musicians.

But Kova, I don't blame you for looking at other possibilities, you are too young to be losing your hearing.

Thanks Drumr

Because I'm a "solo" artist, I'm lucky that I'm not in a band environment with drums and guitar amps on stage. I'd probably wear ear plugs too if I was playing with a full band like yourself. Sorry to hear about your situation.

For the record, I do NOT blame the L1. This could have happened with ANY speaker I had repeatedly blaring right behind me (where the L1 typically sits) or a floor monitor screaming in my face. The result would still be the same.

On a positive note I can't stress enough how wonderful the Bose T1 makes my Mackie's sound. Truly the best mixer I've ever owned or HEARD!

Hey Kova, glad the T1 is working out for you with other gear (I like it for recording too).
With your Mackies out front, what are you monitoring with?

Two words will solve this problem when you need to play really loud with L1's.....ear plugs.

You'll still get all the benefits of the L1 & be able to crank it in those noisy or big venues where you are pushing the edge of what the L1's can do.

You'll still hear great and the ear plugs filter out enough of the near field loudness that your ears won't be ringing.

I've had to crank the L1's to ear ringing level a few time, ear plugs is what I do.

If you really need to be very loud, there is simply no way around ear ringing levels, short of going back to a tripple system approach and then hoping the stage lvl is at reasonable level.

So, you can either bring ear plugs or a extra speakers and then complicate set up.

quote:

Two words will solve this problem when you need to play really loud with L1's.....ear plugs.

Can't agree.
Earplugs kill much of the *joy* of music for me.
As well as hiding subtle nuances of the cymbals, and exaggerating the bass frequencies.
I also have trouble judging my vocal volume.

However, I could see that for a bassist in a metal band, maybe it's not so much an issue.
The exaggerated bass would be a bonus.