I wanted to point out that, the first picture above is a common crowd that I deal with and it is give and take at times with my currrent system. The second picture is an unusual situation, but am looking forward to trying the Model II outdoors this summer. Different outdoor gigs of course, other than what is pictured above.

quote:

Originally posted by macheted01:
I wanted to point out that, the first picture above is a common crowd that I deal with and it is give and take at times with my currrent system. The second picture is an unusual situation, but am looking forward to trying the Model II outdoors this summer. Different outdoor gigs of course, other than what is pictured above.

That first pic is just like the places I play, but the stages are about 1/2 as deep and not quite as wide.

ST,
Besides the obvious weight and shape, lack of the number of inputs and Tone Match options, and a little wider dispersion...what makes the Model 2 a better choice than a Model 1? Not only would he have to invest in another B1 later on, he would have to invest in another T1 Mixer as well. Thus costing another X amount, for the option for the Model 2 over the Model 1. Thoughts here please...I would really like to know. Thanks!

Hi Bobby Clark,

I'm understanding that Tom can get either of these for the same money:

Model II with one B1
or
Model I with two B1s

Tom, is that right?

At straight retail - The Model II with single B1 would cost a couple hundred dollars more. If Tom needs a second B1 he can get one. If Tom needs more channels he can get another T1® or a mixer, but if he needs the wider dispersion or other benefits of the Model II, well there's nothing he can do to make the Model I into a Model II.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom the Guitar guy:
I play country, classic rock, oldies, blues - everywhere from bars, country clubs, restaurant/night clubs etc. With a band (3/4 piece) and also solo and duo situtations.

- source Model I vs Model II

Tom is playing solo, duo, and in his band, and in all the kinds of venues and situations. I'm reading that he needs maximum flexibility. I think that he will find the Model II will give him that flexibility, more often, in more places than the Model I. He will have plenty of opportunities to use the Model II without needing another B1.

Tom, in your band: If you are not planning to put a microphone on the kick drum, or replace the bass players amp with the L1®, then I don't think you will NEED a second B1. With the Model II, you will get all that it has to offer now, and you can add a B1 if you need it later.

Back to you Bobby,
I'm not seeing that Tom will absolutely need a second T1®. If he does at some point, then that's a decision for another day.


For more thoughts - here is what I posted in reply to Tom's original question: Model I vs Model II

quote:

Originally posted by ST:
Hi Tom,

The sound disperson of the Compact and Model II are very similar (extremely wide). I think that you will find that after using the Compact, you will find the Model I to sound less clear at the extreme edges. You will notice this on stage with respect to monitoring, especially if you are on a shallow stage.

With the Model II, if you can see it in a room, then you can probably hear it clearly. You have a lot of flexibility with respect to where you put it. With the Model I, you will need to be give this more thought.

With the Model II, the shape and weight (rectangular 30" x 12", 25 pounds) make it really easy to carry in and out of a venue, even if that venue is crowded or cramped, or if you have to climb stairs. The Model I, although lighter than a lot of gear is still about about 27" x 27" and 35 pounds and this means that it is less easy to manage in a crowd or on stairs.

I am reasonably certain that if you are used to the T1®, you will take it with you to every gig regardless of whether you get a Model II or Model I. The Model I will allow two more inputs than the Model II with T1®, but if you don't need those last two inputs, this may not matter.

If you run at the same stage volume, I think you will find that the Model II covers four times the area of the Compact. (twice as far in every direction). I think that you will find that the Model I covers twice as far forward, but it will seem less effective at the sides. You'll still hear the Model I on the sides, but the Model II will sound clearer.

The short answer: I think that if you get a Model I, you will feel as though you have been spoiled by the Compact. The Model II will feel: More, Better.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Clark:
Thoughts here please...I would really like to know. Thanks!

Bobby, does that help?

quote:

Originally posted by ST:
Hi Bobby Clark,

I'm understanding that Tom can get either of these for the same money:

Model II with one B1
or
Model I with two B1s

Tom, is that right?

At straight retail - The Model II with single B1 would cost a couple hundred dollars more. If Tom needs a second B1 he can get one. If Tom needs more channels he can get another T1® or a mixer, but if he needs the wider dispersion or other benefits of the Model II, well there's nothing he can do to make the Model I into a Model II.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom the Guitar guy:
I play country, classic rock, oldies, blues - everywhere from bars, country clubs, restaurant/night clubs etc. With a band (3/4 piece) and also solo and duo situtations.

- source Model I vs Model II

Tom is playing solo, duo, and in his band, and in all the kinds of venues and situations. I'm reading that he needs maximum flexibility. I think that he will find the Model II will give him that flexibility, more often, in more places than the Model I. He will have plenty of opportunities to use the Model II without needing another B1.

Tom, in your band: If you are not planning to put a microphone on the kick drum, or replace the bass players amp with the L1®, then I don't think you will NEED a second B1. With the Model II, you will get all that it has to offer now, and you can add a B1 if you need it later.

Back to you Bobby,
I'm not seeing that Tom will absolutely need a second T1®. If he does at some point, then that's a decision for another day.


For more thoughts - here is what I posted in reply to Tom's original question: Model I vs Model II

quote:

Originally posted by ST:
Hi Tom,

The sound disperson of the Compact and Model II are very similar (extremely wide). I think that you will find that after using the Compact, you will find the Model I to sound less clear at the extreme edges. You will notice this on stage with respect to monitoring, especially if you are on a shallow stage.

With the Model II, if you can see it in a room, then you can probably hear it clearly. You have a lot of flexibility with respect to where you put it. With the Model I, you will need to be give this more thought.

With the Model II, the shape and weight (rectangular 30" x 12", 25 pounds) make it really easy to carry in and out of a venue, even if that venue is crowded or cramped, or if you have to climb stairs. The Model I, although lighter than a lot of gear is still about about 27" x 27" and 35 pounds and this means that it is less easy to manage in a crowd or on stairs.

I am reasonably certain that if you are used to the T1®, you will take it with you to every gig regardless of whether you get a Model II or Model I. The Model I will allow two more inputs than the Model II with T1®, but if you don't need those last two inputs, this may not matter.

If you run at the same stage volume, I think you will find that the Model II covers four times the area of the Compact. (twice as far in every direction). I think that you will find that the Model I covers twice as far forward, but it will seem less effective at the sides. You'll still hear the Model I on the sides, but the Model II will sound clearer.

The short answer: I think that if you get a Model I, you will feel as though you have been spoiled by the Compact. The Model II will feel: More, Better.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Clark:
Thoughts here please...I would really like to know. Thanks!

Bobby, does that help?

Hi ST,

Yes you're right on the options that I had.

I actually brought my Compact out and used it with the band last night for the very first time.

It's worked great for my solo and duo shows but I had not tried it with the band because of limitations that I keep hearing that the Compact has as far as number of people, etc.

I used it for my vocals only - the rest of the band went through our regular PA.

As a three piece, the bass player was able to hear me from the other side of the stage (although the drummer couldn't because the speaker array was above his head as he was seated). When we called special guests up and added that 4th or even 5th player, on stage the Compact couldn't keep up - I definitely had to run a line so that they could hear me in the monitors.

In the audience however, my vocal was very clear and pronounced. Loved the sound. I had already been satisfied with my sound as a solo and duo, but to hear it in a band was even better for me.

My thinking was that a second Compact would work great on the other side of the stage for the Drummer and Bass player's vocals. And it would do just fine in a lot of the places we play - as a 3 piece. Not so sure if we went 4 pieces.

This is where the idea that I could buy two more Compacts for the price of the Model II and have 3 Compacts on stage.

However, just to point out, I did have a little issue with feedback so I don't think I was able to really adjust the trims the way they should be ~ so I could be wrong.

I really wish I had the money to get both (another Compact and the Model II), but hey, I wish I had won the lottery too. :

If I could venture one more question, I see lots of photos and even videos of the L1's (Compacts and Model I and II's) behind the band ~ at performance volume I'm not seeing / hearing about any feedback issues. With me as soon as I moved, I could hear the feedback creep up - so "stage presence" antics aren't as easily done. Is it just that I didn't have the trims set right? (I didn't use the T1, just the TC Helicon G-XT into Compact channel 1 - and I kept having to either lower the trim on the harmonizer or the volume level on the Compact).

Thanks for all the input from everyone!

Tom

quote:

Originally posted by ST:
Hi Bobby Clark,

I'm understanding that Tom can get either of these for the same money:

Model II with one B1
or
Model I with two B1s

Tom, is that right?

At straight retail - The Model II with single B1 would cost a couple hundred dollars more. If Tom needs a second B1 he can get one. If Tom needs more channels he can get another T1® or a mixer, but if he needs the wider dispersion or other benefits of the Model II, well there's nothing he can do to make the Model I into a Model II.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom the Guitar guy:
I play country, classic rock, oldies, blues - everywhere from bars, country clubs, restaurant/night clubs etc. With a band (3/4 piece) and also solo and duo situtations.

- source Model I vs Model II

Tom is playing solo, duo, and in his band, and in all the kinds of venues and situations. I'm reading that he needs maximum flexibility. I think that he will find the Model II will give him that flexibility, more often, in more places than the Model I. He will have plenty of opportunities to use the Model II without needing another B1.

Tom, in your band: If you are not planning to put a microphone on the kick drum, or replace the bass players amp with the L1®, then I don't think you will NEED a second B1. With the Model II, you will get all that it has to offer now, and you can add a B1 if you need it later.

Back to you Bobby,
I'm not seeing that Tom will absolutely need a second T1®. If he does at some point, then that's a decision for another day.


For more thoughts - here is what I posted in reply to Tom's original question: Model I vs Model II

quote:

Originally posted by ST:
Hi Tom,

The sound disperson of the Compact and Model II are very similar (extremely wide). I think that you will find that after using the Compact, you will find the Model I to sound less clear at the extreme edges. You will notice this on stage with respect to monitoring, especially if you are on a shallow stage.

With the Model II, if you can see it in a room, then you can probably hear it clearly. You have a lot of flexibility with respect to where you put it. With the Model I, you will need to be give this more thought.

With the Model II, the shape and weight (rectangular 30" x 12", 25 pounds) make it really easy to carry in and out of a venue, even if that venue is crowded or cramped, or if you have to climb stairs. The Model I, although lighter than a lot of gear is still about about 27" x 27" and 35 pounds and this means that it is less easy to manage in a crowd or on stairs.

I am reasonably certain that if you are used to the T1®, you will take it with you to every gig regardless of whether you get a Model II or Model I. The Model I will allow two more inputs than the Model II with T1®, but if you don't need those last two inputs, this may not matter.

If you run at the same stage volume, I think you will find that the Model II covers four times the area of the Compact. (twice as far in every direction). I think that you will find that the Model I covers twice as far forward, but it will seem less effective at the sides. You'll still hear the Model I on the sides, but the Model II will sound clearer.

The short answer: I think that if you get a Model I, you will feel as though you have been spoiled by the Compact. The Model II will feel: More, Better.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Clark:
Thoughts here please...I would really like to know. Thanks!

Bobby, does that help?

Oh, and while we probably wouldn't run the bass through the L1, I would like to mic the kick and snare.

Hi Tom the Guitar guy,


Are you mic'ing the kick and snare now?

Will you retire (sell) the existing PA when you get your Model II (or Model I)?

If so, are you running subwoofers with the existing PA? If so, then you could use those to support the kick drum (through the Model II Bass Line Out).

How does that sound?

Hint: you can use the reply button if you don't need to quote a previous message.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom the Guitar guy:
Hi ST,

Yes you're right on the options that I had.

Check!

quote:

I actually brought my Compact out and used it with the band last night for the very first time.

It's worked great for my solo and duo shows but I had not tried it with the band because of limitations that I keep hearing that the Compact has as far as number of people, etc.

This has a lot to do with the environment (number of people, size of the gig, and a concern about monitoring and feedback).

quote:

I used it for my vocals only - the rest of the band went through our regular PA.

As a three piece, the bass player was able to hear me from the other side of the stage (although the drummer couldn't because the speaker array was above his head as he was seated). When we called special guests up and added that 4th or even 5th player, on stage the Compact couldn't keep up - I definitely had to run a line so that they could hear me in the monitors.

Loud Drummer?

Are you the lead vocalist?

quote:

In the audience however, my vocal was very clear and pronounced. Loved the sound. I had already been satisfied with my sound as a solo and duo, but to hear it in a band was even better for me.

My thinking was that a second Compact would work great on the other side of the stage for the Drummer and Bass player's vocals. And it would do just fine in a lot of the places we play - as a 3 piece. Not so sure if we went 4 pieces.

This is where the idea that I could buy two more Compacts for the price of the Model II and have 3 Compacts on stage.

However, just to point out, I did have a little issue with feedback so I don't think I was able to really adjust the trims the way they should be ~ so I could be wrong.

I really wish I had the money to get both (another Compact and the Model II), but hey, I wish I had won the lottery too. :

If I could venture one more question, I see lots of photos and even videos of the L1's (Compacts and Model I and II's) behind the band ~ at performance volume I'm not seeing / hearing about any feedback issues. With me as soon as I moved, I could hear the feedback creep up - so "stage presence" antics aren't as easily done. Is it just that I didn't have the trims set right? (I didn't use the T1, just the TC Helicon G-XT into Compact channel 1 - and I kept having to either lower the trim on the harmonizer or the volume level on the Compact).

Thanks for all the input from everyone!

Tom

On a noisy stage, I find that the T1® can be a big help with feedback. What kind of microphone are you using?
Also, if you are using reverb or delay in the harmonizer this can contribute to feedback too.

You got some tweaking ahead of you to get the gain staging sorted out.

Here are some general tips about Microphone Feedback.

We share vocal duties - I'm the primary vocalist and then the drummer and bass player sing a couple of songs each set. And the banter between us and the audience is part of the act.

Not a loud drummer - as a 3 piece we are very "aware" of our stage volume and work on getting a nice clean mix. It's when we add our special guests - which is part of our schtick "audience participation"

Using Sennheiser e835's (me and bass player) - drummer uses an SM58. I tried removing the effects on harmonizer. But didn't seem to make much difference. Didn't seem to be an issue as a solo act, but maybe it's because of instrumentation and placement - couldn't really place it just a little to the side and a little back - was to the side, but further back.

Thanks for the link on Feedback - I had read that before and was trying to keep all those things in mind when I set up. I know the T1 would help a lot and I will probably use it, but also want to be able to do it without it in case there are times where time is an issue, or I just plain forgot it.

As always, thank you for your input and advice.

Tom

A lot of information just came available that wasn't present in the beginning of this thread. In example: secondary PA, monitors, and instruments. Knowing that the Compact is being used as an individual piece of equipment instead of just the everything for all performers, that makes a lot of difference in my replies.
ST,
You are correct about the advantages of the Model 2. The dispersion, wieght, and portability will be worth the purchase if just being used as a single piece of gear. The B1 could be purchased later date.
Thanks to all the input from everyone. This is what makes this forum a great place to ask questions. You will learn a lot just by reading the pages and applying real world situations.

quote:

Originally posted by ST:
Hi Tom the Guitar guy,


Are you mic'ing the kick and snare now?

Will you retire (sell) the existing PA when you get your Model II (or Model I)?


If so, are you running subwoofers with the existing PA? If so, then you could use those to support the kick drum (through the Model II Bass Line Out).

How does that sound?

Hint: you can use the reply button if you don't need to quote a previous message.

No subwoofers at the moment. Just rolling off the highs and mids for the kick.

Sounds pretty good (no complaints!)

I'll probably keep the old system - you never know when it may come in handy for something else!

But I don't have plans on continuing to use it if I can go all Bose ~ which was always one of those things that kinda "tweaked" me when reading some posts - that to integrate both systems is a compromise and it shouldn't be done, and why would you, etc - obviously it's a compromise. And what should you do until you get all Bose? Stop playing? Don't use either system? Sorry for that last rant, it's just that that is kinda of the "attitude" I got when reading some posts as I was researching before becoming a member (long time lurker). Some of us just don't have $7500 - $9000 lying around to get an L1 for each person ~ and there are instances where some folks may be more "professionally mindset" than others in their band - if you know what I mean. That's why the Compact was such a good "entry" for the Bose folks. But I digress! (Sorry!)

Anyway, thanks again for all the sage advice!

Tom

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Clark:
A lot of information just came available that wasn't present in the beginning of this thread. In example: secondary PA, monitors, and instruments. Knowing that the Compact is being used as an individual piece of equipment instead of just the everything for all performers, that makes a lot of difference in my replies.
ST,
You are correct about the advantages of the Model 2. The dispersion, wieght, and portability will be worth the purchase if just being used as a single piece of gear. The B1 could be purchased later date.
Thanks to all the input from everyone. This is what makes this forum a great place to ask questions. You will learn a lot just by reading the pages and applying real world situations.

Bobby,

Your replies/questions were appreciated as well - I apologize if I didn't mention previously. You're one of the folks on here that I have read many posts from especially regarding your happiness with 2 Compacts and your shows. Trying to meld and apply some of your experiences with my "reality" is what got me asking these additional questions.

Tom

quote:

Originally posted by ST:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tom the Guitar guy:
[QUOTE]
I actually brought my Compact out and used it with the band last night for the very first time.

It's worked great for my solo and duo shows but I had not tried it with the band because of limitations that I keep hearing that the Compact has as far as number of people, etc.

This has a lot to do with the environment (number of people, size of the gig, and a concern about monitoring and feedback).

quote:

I used it for my vocals only - the rest of the band went through our regular PA.

As a three piece, the bass player was able to hear me from the other side of the stage (although the drummer couldn't because the speaker array was above his head as he was seated). When we called special guests up and added that 4th or even 5th player, on stage the Compact couldn't keep up - I definitely had to run a line so that they could hear me in the monitors.

Loud Drummer?

Are you the lead vocalist?

quote:

In the audience however, my vocal was very clear and pronounced. Loved the sound. I had already been satisfied with my sound as a solo and duo, but to hear it in a band was even better for me.

My thinking was that a second Compact would work great on the other side of the stage for the Drummer and Bass player's vocals. And it would do just fine in a lot of the places we play - as a 3 piece. Not so sure if we went 4 pieces.

This is where the idea that I could buy two more Compacts for the price of the Model II and have 3 Compacts on stage.

However, just to point out, I did have a little issue with feedback so I don't think I was able to really adjust the trims the way they should be ~ so I could be wrong.

I brought out the Compact again (2nd night of a Birthday Bash Weekend!), but this time made room on the stage so that I could place more like I do for my solo shows - that is a little to the back and to the side (vs. at the back of the stage) and I was able to dial in a little more gain, but still getting the feedback.

Looking down, I realized that the TC Helicon's FX knob was set to 12 o'clock - normally I use it at around 9 o'clock for just a "touch" of reverb and effects. Moved it back and wow what a difference. Was able to set my gain on the TC Helicon up to 11 o'clock and was running the Compact at around 1 o'clock (last night it was 9 and 11-12, respectively).

This small change made it possible for the bass player and the special guests to hear my vocal on the other side of the stage (because the drummer was behind the Compact, he didn't hear me except through the monitors).

And again, I got great response the clarity and sound of the L1 Compact from people in the audience. Our party, which was situated way over to the side (basically front row, but on the left side of the stage, not in front) stated that they could hear my vocals very well - nice and clear - a real testament to the 180 degree sound dispersion.

Adding a 2nd Compact would probably work as long as we still ran a hot spot type monitor for the drummer to hear (I'm talking just vocals through the Compacts). A Model 1 or Model II would definitely fill the room easily.

Anyway, just wanted to update all on my findings so far.

Thanks again for all of the input!





Tom

edit: added another photo

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tom the Guitar guy,

Hi Tom,

Great picture. Is that you with the G&L?

Is that an ASAT Classic Semi?

quote:

Originally posted by ST:
Hi Tom,

Great picture. Is that you with the G&L?

Is that an ASAT Classic Semi?

It's an ASAT Bluesboy (Classic w/ a Humbucker in the neck) ~ yes, Semi Hollow.