Hi Mahesh,

I also have a "nasal" quality to my voice that I am not fond of. My thoughts are to try to eq away anything I don't want to hear.

I don't really think the nasal quality is more in the Model II and less in the Classic, though it may be dispersed wider coming from the Model II thus impossible to get away from.

The next time you have an opportunity to try a Model II try this;

Select the preset that matches your vocal mic.

With Highs and Lows flat, set the Mid zEQ about -5 or -6 dB.

Go to Para EQ and;

set "Level" to -10dB

set "Width" to 1.0oct

adjust "Freq" to 1000

While speaking or singing adjust the Freq up and down slowly from 1000Hz to 1200Hz back down to 900Hz, and back up again.

Listen to the changes to see if you find the voice you want to hear. When you hear your voice as you like it the "Freq" will be the center of the offending range.

Once you have identified the frequency that you don't want to hear then you can adjust the Level and Width to suit your taste.

This may or may not work for you. If it doesn't hopefully it will give you an idea of what you might try in order to make it work.

Go back to zEQ and fine tune from there.

It's worth a try.

While mics are certainly different, many quality mics still have a rise in sensitivity in the range that you seem to be having an issue with. Either of the two you currently have should be OK if you can fine tune the eq.

Here is a link to some old posts. (2004) It may or may not help, but it is interesting reading.

http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/for...944/m/6621062011/p/2

Maybe ST will stop in and provide some more up to date links to info in the wiki.

O..

Edited in an effort to improve clarity.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Oldghm,

Hi Mahesh, O..


Here is a link to a video by Cliff-at-Bose where talks about

Identifying Spectral Excess in Musical Sounds



Please click the picture and then you will be on the page where you can run the videos or download an audio tool that is very useful in helping you to identify frequencies and put names to what you hear.

Thanks a bunch Oldghm and ST. Definitely worth experimenting with (once I get the M2). Thanks for your help.
Oldghm, I think my offending frequency is around 3000 HZ which was adjusted down in some studio recordings that I had done.
Seems like all recommendations are pointing to the Model2 with some tweaking.
Thanks again for all the expert advice you guys have given.

Mahesh

I am not smart enough to explain some things that I know work, for example many times what we hear is a harmonic of the fundamental so we may hear something at 3000 hz but be able to correct it with 375hz, 750hz, or 1500hz, or somewhere in between.

I probably spend more time tinkering with guitar tone than my vocal but if I am trying to eliminate a problem frequency I will deal with multiples of the problem value to see which one takes away the problem and leaves the most of the good stuff.

Example; if an open A is ringing with something unpleasant, I might try 220hz, 440hz, 880hz, and 1760hz. One will generally work better than the others. I don't know why.

The main thing is, you have a pocket full of ideas to tinker with, and it will be interesting to hear how it works out for you.

Best,
O..

Will keep you posted. Thanks...

While I am waiting for the Model2, I have borrowed my old Classic back for a few days and one thing that I immediately noticed was that when you turn it on (with the T1 at zero volume) , it has an acceptable soft dull residual hiss (like 'shhhhhh'), compared to a slightly annoying humming/buzzing sound that the Model2 produces...almost like an RF interference. Of course the noise is inaudible when music plays thru it but why the difference?
I read some posts regarding this and yes everything is on the same circuit, all dimmers lights are off and I even tried it with and without a surge protector. The Model2 had a residual buzz/hum and the Classic doesn't.
Of course, the M2 could have been defective.
Also, my house is extremely quiet and none of this would be audible in a party environment.
Do all Model 2's have a slight buzz/hum?

quote:

Do all Model 2's have a slight buzz/hum?

I've had my MII for 2 years and never heard a buzz or humming sound.
Interesting, as I have setup in over 26 different venues, with varying degrees of background noise. Some very quiet, as in my house and several noisy ones.

The only additional sounds, would be from my Digitech VL4, my RE-2 EV 767 wireless mikes and Motion Computing USB connection (for tracks) are quiet.

Thanks JoelHeck....

quote:

RE-2 EV 767 wireless mikes and Motion Computing USB connection (for tracks) are quiet.

Ditto for me Joel

AJ

I can hear my Model IIs if they are idling in a quiet - very quiet, room. But I have to be listening for the sound and I can only detect it within a few feet of the Cylindrical Radiator®. I hear a gentle hiss.

Regarding

quote:

Originally posted by ST:
Hi Dan,

Interesting idea (see bold below).

quote:

Originally posted by Dan Cornett:
Sidebar:

quote:

Originally posted by Oldghm:
...I probably spend more time tinkering with guitar tone than my vocal but if I am trying to eliminate a problem frequency I will deal with multiples of the problem value to see which one takes away the problem and leaves the most of the good stuff.

Example; if an open A is ringing with something unpleasant, I might try 220hz, 440hz, 880hz, and 1760hz. One will generally work better than the others. ...

Many "rich" tones (like guitar, piano, ... and, often, voices) have strong harmonics -- frequencies which are multiples of the "fundamental" note.

Often, one of those "harmonics" can be louder (stronger) than the fundamental -- particularly those which are octaves (doubling of the frequency). Thus, Oldghm's example.

On the other hand, our ears sometimes hear harmonics from two lower tones which are NOT strongly present in the original electronic/acoustic signal, and thus can't be removed by trying to filter the "heard" frequency. So, it is also helpful to try tinkering with frequencies which are 1/2, 1/3, or 1/4 of the "offending" frequency.

I would like to explore this idea - do you have any references?

Thanks.

Dan asked me to start a new thread for this.

If anyone is interested - please see: Identifying and dealing with offending frequencies/harmonics

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,

Mahesh PM'd me to chime in here as well with my thoughts on this.

I've experienced a difference between the Classic & Model II, but it was mostly about placement behind me & my relative position to the array. I do feel that the Model II is almost identical tonally to the Classic, & the only real variation I have heard is whether I am standing directly where the speakers are firing or off to one side or the other. I actually prefer the sound directly in front of the Classic where the speakers are directly firing in the "sweet spot" as others have called it here. With the Model II I prefer to be off to the side again directly where the speakers are firing. I EQ the system to get the best sound to my ear in this position.

If anything I have found that the Model II is usually smoother than the Classic in most situations. In fact I have had the audience tell me the same thing where everything else is equal with the two systems side-by-side A/B'ing between them. I was doing this last summer when comparing it to the Compact which does tend to be much crisper, so I was listening pretty critically. The Classic was a little harsher in the high mids & highs than the Model II to my ears.

As far as EQ, prefer to do EQ'ing for my voice & guitar usually through technique & not tweaking knobs. It's amazing how much warmer you can make your voice sound if you really listen & modify your technique. Different mics also make a big difference in the vocal tone, but I probably don't have to tell you that.

So I don't really know what to tell you. I do know that I don't hear much variation between two Model II's or two Classics, so unless you have a bad one there shouldn't be much difference.

Tom

[edited for typo]

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tom Munch,

quote:

With the Model II I prefer to be off to the side again directly where the speakers are firing. I EQ the system to get the best sound to my ear in this position.

Hi Tom

Off to the side and behind you or off to the side and kind of parallel to you?

Thanks!
AJ

Thank you Tom for your valuable input. All of you have so much of combined experience in such varied environments that I could never have duplicated the same on my own. This forum is simply amazing!
It seems like the L1 plays tricks on our ears depending on the environment, placement, size of room etc. etc. I could have sworn that the Model 2 sounds harsher but Tom thinks the opposite and he certainly has a lot more experience than I do.
At least now it opens up my mind to give the Model 2 another fair shot.
Thanks again...everyone. Will keep you posted.

quote:

Off to the side and behind you or off to the side and kind of parallel to you?

AJ,

To be in line with the speakers firing sideways & forward you have to have the Model II behind you & to the side. Try it & walk around until you hear the "sweet spot".

Tom

Ok everyone, I have been testing and comparing the Classic with the Model2 extensively for the last few days with an open mind. I carefully implemented many of the valuable suggestions and tips given by all of you, especially ST, Oldghm, Tom, Tres, DrumrPete and Ken.

I am happy (and humbled) to say that I have been able to tweak the Model 2 (T1 settings) and change its physical location to make it sound amazingly smooth... and I pretty much take back a lot of the negative things that I said about the Model 2 initially. There are still a few tests that I need to do in noisy environments at very high volumes with multiple musicians plugged in to see if it has the dynamic headroom of the Classic.

One thing that struck me was that the M2 has different tonal characteristics and sounds different in the same spot that the classic was; but after a few adjustments and moving it a little, it sounded great.

I turned down the Midrange to -6 db on the mic input (Beta 58) and the para eq down to -8 db at 1000Hz. It cuts the midrange harshness and sounds smooth.

Some things, however, are still confusing to me. In my A/B tests, sometimes I found my vocals more airy with the classic and a little 'puffed/pumped' with the Model 2. Almost as though it was breathing through the classic towers but was trapped in the model 2 towers. (Ported advantage?)
Sometimes, I also felt like my vocals sounded more full through the classic and a little more separated on the Model 2. I suspect that this may have something to do with the change in crossover frequency from 180 to 200 hz. However, I must add that after all the tweaks, it doesn't bother me as much as it initially did. BTW I used both systems with 1 Bass module.

So I will continue with some more tests and keep you posted but so far I am quite impressed and the advantages do outweigh the disadvantages.

I really need to do a gig with an audience in order to really come to a conclusion.

Thanks for all the tips..

Mahesh

Hi Mahesh,

Thank you for the update. I really appreciate that you took the time to drop back in here and let us know how you are doing.

Cheers!

quote:

Originally posted by ST:
Thank you for the update. I really appreciate that you took the time to drop back in here and let us know how you are doing.

ST,

I absolutely owe all of you an update on my experience with the 2 systems. Several hundred people have already read these posts and I need to clarify that with a little bit of tweaking, the Model 2 sounds better and better.
My gut feel is that I am going to keep the Model 2.

Ken, please consider updating the model 2 towers with ported speakers and changing the frequency cutoff back to 180 hz and of course it needs to fit in the current Model 2 tower base amp.

M