Been lurking here for quite a while (actually I was registered under another user name for a bit way back but couldn’t seem to reactivate it). Getting ready to get a new PA, so I thought I’d bounce some ideas off you guys.

Basically I’m looking for three things. A simple PA, a light PA, and a “scalable” PA. Simple in that I hate doing sound – as the only guy un-mic’d and who can walk around in the middle of the tunes, I get to do the soundcheck and turn the knobs – then explain that “yes it does sound like **** up on stage, but it sounds fine out there, and I’m not going to jerk around with the monitor mix”. Light – just got rid of 200lbs of gear. Scalable, in that I need to do different sorts of bands in different sorts of rooms.

So I play Jazz in Duo’s to Sextettes (I realize I should sketcher this but I’m home sick today and I’m too stupid to do it). The most common groups look like this…….

- Duos. Piano or Guitar / Vocal, and Sax / Vocal (so I need 2x vocal mics and an in for the keyboard/guitar – I never mic the sax),

- Trios. Add either a Bass (electric and or upright) or percussionist (Cajon & Conga’s). For very small rooms it would be nice to have the bass in the pa and avoid the weight/space requirement of a bass amp.

- Standard jazz quartet. Sometimes we add a vocalist.

- And finally our latin jazz group. Vocals/flute, vocals/sax, guitar, bass/vocals, drums (not mic’d), conga’s (mic’d).

Rooms range from 20 x 35 feet for restaurant duo stuff (very, very low volumes), to 50 x 100 feet for more bistro/bar type gigs). We do some outdoor gigs for about 80 to 100 folks, and the odd big tent gig for 300ish. All of these gigs are really restaurant type things. People are there to eat, drink, and get lucky, rather than hear the band. Stages are small. Saturday I’m playing a duo where we get 3x5 feet to set up me and the piano.

Here’s the gear we have right now. Powered 12” on a pole, powered 8” (usually stuck on a table at a 45% angle so it’s sort of a monitor. A tiny roland cube monitor, 8 channel and 12 channel mixer. EFX unit for reverb. I just got rid of 200 lbs of Yorkville breadbox mixer, two Yorkville 12’s on poles, two peavey 12’s for monitors. I know they were overkill, but they were a bargain. I thought they’d be good for the big gig, but they set us up this year with the front row of the audience 7 feet in front of the band, so all the sound went over their heads, and we needed a centre infill. That’s when I snapped – it’s just too much gear to lug up and down stairs.

So……….. I’m thinking about a pair of Compacts. Take one for the duo, and bring a mixer if I need to run more than one mic. Bring two for the bigger rooms and bigger bands and have the guitar and bass players bring their amps. For the few big outdoor gigs we can use the powered speaker to fill in.

Anyway, that’s my idea. Look forward to your comments and insight.

Cheers.

John.

I'd get one L1 compact and an L1 model II with 2 B1's. Use a mixer or get a T1.

Sell everything else and you could do rooms of up to 300 people.

I agree with c-hizer.His suggestion is a very scalable approach.Two Compacts would limit you,two L1 Model II would not scale down as well. - J.D.

Hi John G!

I really like c-hizer's suggestion of an L1® Compact and an L1®/Model II w/2 B1s. That sounds like a flexible solution to me, as long as you have the appropriate mixer(s) for your inputs. And, you'd hit all your criteria of simple, light and scalable with a configuration like this.

I'd probably go with 2 T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engines for my mixer(s). They are very flexible with effects (reverb) and other audio shaping tools and could be used with either the L1®/Model II or L1® Compact. Expensive solution, but well worth the investment, as far as I'm concerned. You could also use your existing mixer to start with, if need be.

Sounds exciting to play in a variety of configurations, as you have described! I bet it's a challenge though, if you're the "PA" person! Good luck, let us know what you decide and how it works out.

John

Hi all

Read the article..........I think if he buys a compact with a tonematch he should be all set. if he has deep pockets then buy the Model II

I own both but if I had to make a decision based on what I read, (All of these gigs are really restaurant type things. People are there to eat, drink, and get lucky, rather than hear the band. Stages are small. Saturday I’m playing a duo where we get 3x5 feet to set up me and the piano.) then the Compact/tonematch is the way to go.

AJ
Music is neither young or old it just "is"

Thanks for all the comments folks.

Thinking it over, I think I might go for a compact first (which would do about 3/4's of the gigs I do, and then see about expanding to either a Model 1 or a compact. The budget does start to enter into it. Two compacts is about 2,700 cdn (taxes in), which is pushing the limit. The Model 1 with a bin is on sale but it comes in at 2,300 Cdn. I like the tonematch but I need three vocal and three instrument mics with the latin band, and again its a chunk of money. I thought about just going for one model one but I've heard them a few times, including in one of the rooms we've played and it seems to be too much (although I've no idea what the volume was dialed in at).

cheers

John.

Having just hit the post button, I've been thinking some more. So thanks again about your input.

In particular, the tonematch coment, and my response about the inputs, caused me to think a bit deeper, and I'm starting to wonder if some of those inputs are really just to bring the conga's and the flute out of the 'mud'. In other words maybe with the clarity that comes with the l1's and the lack of monitors, I can get away with at least taking the conga's out, and maybe even the flute. Sometimes it seems there's more flute in the monitors than in the mains.

Again, makes me think a compact might be the way to go initially and then experiment a bit.

cheers

John.

Hi John G!

I'd encourage you to really check out the T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine FAQ, if you haven't already.

Something else I was thinking about for your situation might be to "downsize" your other mixers. You could pick up a couple of 4 to 6 channel mixers so you could sub-group things, then take their output into a single T1 channel, so you could utilize some of the T1 Presets and effects. I haven't really done anything like that, but I could see where it might lighten your load, and provide some flexibility for you with your various group configurations. That's just a thought...

Sounds like you're formulating a plan, so if you need anything, you know where we are! Good luck.

Hello, John G!

I want to 'echo' John Nell's thought.

In our 'ordinary' setup at the church building (which stays set up all the time) I *only* use small mixers - 3 of them. They each have 4 mic inputs and either 2 or 4 "line" input channels -- and the price (U.S.) ranged from ~$90 on-consignment to $140 new. I don't use the T1 with that setup because the vocals all go into Model 1's, which have "just fine" vocal presets.

When playing "portable", I use a T1; if I need more than 3 inputs, I then also bring along one of the small mixers as well.

Hey guys, Thanks for all the advice. Was down at Long and McQuade yesterday chatting with one of the guys there He was of the same opinion of some of you folks, that a compact and a model would be the most flexible. Although his sugesstion was get the model 1 first and see if it would turn down enough for the little gigs. If not then get a compact for little ones. Given the model 1 with a bass bin is 'on sale' it's kind of attractive, so now I'm leaning towards a model 1.

However, I forgot that I have a complication regarding practicing. The ceiling in my practice room is not high enough. Not a problem with the compact as I could just raise it a bit and put in only one extension.

So my question is...Can a model 1 be used with just the lower stick? Now I have to confess, that at L&M one of the braver guys just pulled the top stick off and sure enough music still came out of it. But I'm wondering if it would damage the system to do it on a regular basis?

Anybody doing anything similar? Perhaps one of the Bose folks could give me a recommendation?

cheers

John

Hey John G. Which L&M were you at? I just traded in my L1 Classic with 1 B1 on the new L1 Compact at the Brampton store. The Classic they have on sale may be my old one. If that's the case I can tell you the whole system was only out of the basement once in the year I had it. It is in pristine condition and YES you can operate it with only one stack. It's just like taking a standard PA and only plugging in one speaker. My ceiling was too low in the basement too so I practiced with it half stack all the time

Thanks for the info Freddy. Actually I'm in Ottawa, so it wasn't your classic. Well now I know it'll run using one, and they're on sale, I guess I'll have to pry open the wallet and get one.

cheers

John.

Hi John G.

quote:

Originally posted by John G:
Hey guys, Thanks for all the advice. Was down at Long and McQuade yesterday chatting with one of the guys there He was of the same opinion of some of you folks, that a compact and a model would be the most flexible. Although his suggestion was get the model 1 first and see if it would turn down enough for the little gigs. If not then get a compact for little ones. Given the model 1 with a bass bin is 'on sale' it's kind of attractive, so now I'm leaning towards a model 1.

You CAN turn down the Model I as low as you need to suit the occasion. It will still sound great.

quote:

However, I forgot that I have a complication regarding practicing. The ceiling in my practice room is not high enough. Not a problem with the compact as I could just raise it a bit and put in only one extension.

So my question is...Can a model 1 be used with just the lower stick? Now I have to confess, that at L&M one of the braver guys just pulled the top stick off and sure enough music still came out of it. But I'm wondering if it would damage the system to do it on a regular basis?

Anybody doing anything similar? Perhaps one of the Bose folks could give me a recommendation?

We have notes about running different models of L1® with only the lower half.

Please see Half Stack for all the details.

You will not harm anything, but it won't sound quite the same. There are things you can do to compensate. Please follow the link for details from MikeZ-at-Bose and others.

quote:

cheers

John

You can also check out this article: L1® Model I in the wiki

Please let me know if you need any more information.