I just bought a Compact yesterday so it's still early in the eval process. I have been using a Model 1 w/2 B1 and a T1 and am very happy with that rig.

Like many here, I was seduced by the simplicity and portability of the new Compact and can foresee many instances where it will be the best tool for the job. I agree with what some here describe as shortcomings of the unit, namely no T1 port, absent/inadequate eq control and no basic onboard reverb, but see the overall benefits as outweighing these issues. The dual form factor is brilliant and is a major reason for my ultimate decision to buy.

OK, so my two main use cases for this unit are 1) small full-rig PA for small rooms, impromptu jams and rehearsal, and 2) Full range guitar amp. I run electric and acoustic guitar and two mics into the T1 as well as tracks from a laptop via usb. My hope was that I would unplug the T1 feed from the M1, plug it into the Compact, and still have "my" sound. In short, that didn't happen.

I find the bass output of the Compact to be problematic. Too much bass and muddy bass at that. Not at all like the B1's. I've tried different placement and so far, the only solution has ben with the compact nearly beside me, and then it sounds quite a bit different than standing in front of it. I still have more fiddling to do but it seems like I'll have to do some serious eq work with the T1. Feedback thru the mics is also more of an issue with the Compact.

I guess I'll set up a scene on the T1 with new eq values to suit the compact and see about setting a global eq curve on the laptop (iTunes) to try to tame things there as far as bass goes. Not so bad, if it works. I have a gig Sunday where this rig would be perfect. Hope to have it tweaked by then.

Will update.

Hi 6inline,

Well, I certainly wish things were going more smoothly.

My main concern with what you're experiencing is the lack of correspondence between the L1 Compact and you Model I. When we set any of the L1 systems up side by side they are designed to sound tonally very, very similar, by design.

Now, it is true that the array on the Compact is much smaller than on the Model I and that means there's a significant difference in how rapidly sound diminishes with distance from the two units. That level difference at some distances is real. But if you balance the level the tone should be very similar.

I'm also surprised to hear about feedback differences, again assuming that levels have been matched. I can't think of a reason for the Compact to be less resistant to feedback except in one case: if you're way off to the side of the Compact and the Model I the Compact clearly has wider high frequency radiation. This could cause feedback sooner than the Model I. We feel that's a good tradeoff though since whereever there's a microphone there's usually a listener.

I do think you're on the right path in setting up some scenes on your T1 for the Compact. I'm eager to hear how well things go as you get a little deeper into your evaluation. There's nothing in your description of needs, nor in the design of the product that I can think of that should prevent you from attaining your goals.

I'll turn notifications on for this discussion so I can follow things closely.

With best regards,

Ken

Hi 6inline,

I'm not surprised you're having feedback issues and "tonally" not hearing what you heard from your other L1. That was also my immediate experience switching to the Compact. The Compact has a MUCH BRIGHTER sound. I had to turn my EQ settings down on my T1, 2 to 3 db on my voice and guitar to match what I was used to hearing on my Model 2. Even with that adjustment, the Compact is still a brighter speaker.

As far as bass output, I suggest you do the same on the EQ. Turn it down a few db. That should clean up the "muddy" sound.

I've only used the Compact in my home (got it last week) and I too think I hear a difference in the bass. This makes sense, as the B1 is a different animal (I assume) than the base of the Compact.

What I hear seems to be a more prounounced bassiness in a frequency I haven't identified as of yet. Since the Compact doesn't reach as low as the L1, I'm guessing it's somewhere near the upper lower region of the bass sounds. I'm using it tomorrow for a wedding cocktail hour and then I might have an idea if I like the different bass more or less than the B1/L1 combo.

Suggestion: If you have a T1, try using the paraEQ (with a narrow width) to EMPHASIZE that 'problem' frequency ... it'll then tell you what note and frequency are happening.

I'd also offer that placement in the room may be making a significant difference in the bass response. You really could only accurately compare the two by placing a B1 in the same position as the Compact's base ... or by listening to them side-by-side, then swapping the two positions and listening to how the bass response may-or-may-not be different.

Bass response is quite room -- and location of bass "driver" -- dependent.

You definitely will hear a difference in the bass between the L1 Compact and the Model I (with B1) or Model II (always with one or more B1s).

The reason is that the B1 goes deeper by about 1/2 octave, which is significant if you're playing an instrument that's demanding in that range.

I do not expect you to hear significant differences on instruments that do not excite in that bottom half octave.

Let me put this another way: we could not "voice" the Compact to sound like the other L1 systems in the one range (approx 40-50 Hz) that it does not put out energy.

I think all of the advice about optimizing tone with the T1 engine under such circumstances is right on the money.

Ken

Thank you Ken for your encouragement and to you and others for your valuable input. Believe me, I want this new investment to work out.

I purposely stayed off this board, not soliciting or reading input, until I had worked out the issue to the best of my ability. And until I had hooked up and verified my earlier observations. I set up the Compact right next to the L1(2B1) and plugged in just as I did yesterday. Same pronounced bass. Switched to L1...sounds fine. So back to the T1. Set up a new scene giving up a mic input to get the usb tracks on ch.4 where they can be eq'd. I mimiced all input settings except eq, concentrating mostly on the vocals and tracks.

Here's where it gets fun. Every response posted in this thread contains either a spot-on description of the real differences between these two units -or- a recommendation that actually worked! It's so funny reading the posts now, having already done most of the prescribed adjustments, with great success I might add. Not that I'm so smart... I just hang around here a lot and have picked up a few tricks (thanks Dan Cornett).

Anyhow... I used the para eq to locate the offending frequency (100 hz) and tooled it back 6 or 7 db. Small reductions in both the low and high eq across the rest of the input channels seemed to put things right. There is a difference in mids, but I don't know what it is yet. I can tell on the elec guitar. Clean sounds not quite as good as on the L1, but distorted sounds monster!! (I think I'm hearing a slightly "scooped" sound here... and I like it!)

So, yes... success. Sunday's gig will be the true test. And just in case I need the other mic input, I can go back to my normal scene and tweak confidently. Final note: Listening to the Compact and the Model 1 side by side once I had the C dialed in, the analogy that came to mind was that the sound (mostly the mids) coming from the M1 enveloped one as in a warm bath, while the Compact sound, while still warm and wet, surrounds one with the sizzle of a shower.

quote:

We feel that's a good tradeoff though since whereever there's a microphone there's usually a listener.

Hi Ken:
Ken, I am trying to figure out what "wherever there is a microphone there is a listener" means in relationship to this issue.

On the subject of feedback I received my Compact two days ago and hooked up my Tonematch to it and had a lot of boomy low mic feedback. I moved the Compact about 5 feet left of me and it went away. It was "too" close to me. I also bypassed all Eq's on my Tonematch keyboard chanel and let my internal keyboard Eq's prevail after seting "General Keyboards" in preferences. Indeed the Compact has it's place in the musican's bag. I intend to use it on a gig this coming week and will put it through it's paces in a small venue. I really think it has a great sound on it's own and should not be compared to my Model LL. I have created a different "scene" in my Tonematch for the Compact. In a partnership if both have the same skills then one is not necessary. The model II asnd Compact are "supposed" to be different because they address a different size entertainment venue. Very happy so far!

I like the "bath and shower" references.

quote:

like the "bath and shower" references

You say tomatoe I say Tomahtoe! In any event I cut down on the mids and highs and it really is starting to sound richer. Just like Tom Munch"s SM58! LOL!

quote:

Originally posted by AJ:

Hi Ken:
Ken, I am trying to figure out what "wherever there is a microphone there is a listener" means in relationship to this issue.

I think the issue Ken is speaking of with this statement is feedback.

Because the high frequency radiation of the Compact vs the Model I is wider it creates a scenario where a mic, even off to the side, might be more susceptible to feedback, but a listener there (off to the side) will hear better, more accurate sound, making wider radiation of highs vs possible opportunity for feedback a "good tradeoff".

O..

quote:

Originally posted by AJ:
I really think it has a great sound on it's own and should not be compared to my Model LL. ....

....The model II asnd Compact are "supposed" to be different because they address a different size entertainment venue.

In all the statements I have read from the Folks @ Bose, every indication is the Compact was voiced like the other L1 products, with the exception of the bottom half octave.

Like many others I notice some difference, but after playing in several rooms under slightly different conditions I "think" the difference I hear is more related to the dispersion characteristics, the room it is in, and my relation to the speaker, than it is to the actual voicing of the Compact system.

I do compare the Compact to the Classic and the Model II. They both provide the sound and dispersion characteristics that I have come to depend on after nearly 5 years of use. While they may not be identical twins, or triplets as the case may be, they should at least share a recognizable sameness in sound. If not, why not choose another brand? There are powered speakers with a couple of inputs available for considerably less money.

I don't understand why the venue size would be reason to say one is "supposed" to sound different. In fact, I think scalable solutions that enable us to deliver the same sound regardless of venue size would be / is, the ideal.

I really don't think there is a venue too small for the Model II, except if you have a Compact available, the Model II might be considered too much trouble, too time consuming, too many pieces, Not because of what it is, but, because of what it isn't. It isn't as simple and convenient as the Compact. Only Bose could make something that could make me say the Model II is too much trouble.

In closing, I'm not 100% sure whether I need to work on my perception or Bose needs to work on the system eq, I am sure that the convenience outweighs any difference, real or percieved and I will continue to use the Compact and trust that the audience most likely won't recognize any difference that I might.

O..

From oldghm:

quote:

I think the issue Ken is speaking of with this statement is feedback.

Because the high frequency radiation of the Compact vs the Model I is wider it creates a scenario where a mic, even off to the side, might be more susceptible to feedback, but a listener there (off to the side) will hear better, more accurate sound, making wider radiation of highs vs possible opportunity for feedback a "good tradeoff".

Correct.

Thanks for helping to clarify.

Ken

6inline,

How did your Sunday gig go?

Ken

quote:

Originally posted by Oldghm:

quote:

Originally posted by AJ:

Hi Ken:
Ken, I am trying to figure out what "wherever there is a microphone there is a listener" means in relationship to this issue.

I think the issue Ken is speaking of with this statement is feedback.

Because the high frequency radiation of the Compact vs the Model I is wider it creates a scenario where a mic, even off to the side, might be more susceptible to feedback, but a listener there (off to the side) will hear better, more accurate sound, making wider radiation of highs vs possible opportunity for feedback a "good tradeoff".

O..

Yeah, thanks for clarifying that Oldghm, as I was a bit bewildered by the comment as well!
But I still am a little puzzled in trying to figure this new unit out. If it puts out a wider radiation of highs, wouldn't that also cause more feedback when placed behind us?
Also, I'm a little concerned about the quicker drop-off in sound, is there any actual, quantitative length
that we can expect to hear the same sound as up close? And ST mentioned on another post that we may have to
boost the volume level up front, in order to carry in larger rooms. So, does this mean that the higher volume
up close, will carry at the same level, that much further, or only that some volume will travel further, pushed by the louder "front row" level?

Finally, if I am using a mixer for my tracks, wind controller, & mics, would I pan one side (tracks/synth) to the instrument in, and the other side for the mic in? And what in a few words is it about the Compact, that justifies paying at least twice what a comparable powered speaker would?

Thanks....

Hi Saxman7,

I find the Compact slightly more susceptible to feedback than the "other" L1s, but so far it has not been an issue that has caused me concern.

Just speaking for myself, if I have to turn up so loud that it hurts, I won't play. If the Compact is used in venues as described, about 100 listening, maybe 50 loud patrons, volume shouldn't be a problem. The fact that the Compact volume falls off quicker than the "other L1s" may be one of its virtues. There won't be as much slapback from back walls, and outside (patio gigs) it won't be a cause for complaints from across the street.

What ST was saying was, to have the same volume at 40 ft with the Compact as you would with the Model I or II you would have to start with a louder volume from stage. I have not seen any definitive statements regarding the rate of dropoff for the Compact.

It has been widely printed here that the Model I and II lose volume at 3 db per doubling of distance, so if it is 90 db at 3 ft. it would be 87 at 6 ft., 84db at 12 ft. etc.

A coventional speaker looses volume at the rate of 6 db per doubling of distance.

While it has not been stated as such, I have gotten the impression from some @Bose statements that the Compact is somewhere in between these extremes. Maybe this post will provoke a technical comment from one-@-Bose who knows.

Channel One on the Compact is for mic only so if you are using a mixer I would suggest you use the line in on channel 2. Channel one would still be available for a mic if needed. If you used the RCA jacks on channel 2, you could still use the 1/4' input for guitar.

The XLR on channel one and the guitar 1/4' jack on channel two have appropriate preset. Channel two can be switched off, channel one cannot.

The convenience of the Compact is the biggest draw for me, other than I have become so used to the clarity of my other L1s, I wouldn't even consider a speaker on a stick now, especially for the kind of gig where I will use the Compact.

I think I said it before but, picking up the Compact, extensions, mic, stand, and guitar on the way out the door, everything in one trip, if that isn't addictive, I don't know what is.

O..

OK, so I did a gig with the Compact on Friday but left for NYC right away and couldn't post.

Definitely a pronounced bassiness, particularly with backing tracks using only drums and bass. I was in a room that was fairly large with high ceilings. The sound beyond the bass was very good and clear, as I've come to expect from the L1 series.

I see 6inline believes the problem (for him anyway) is around 100 hz so I'll experiment with that and see if I can dial in a fix. If that solves it, then I'm pretty happy with the Compact. It was enlightening to see how much easier the set up and break down went.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: captbanjo,

A little late, but here is Sunday's gig report. This was an afternoon event in a smallish restaurant with french doors opened to a good sized porch with about 6 more tables outside. About 40 folks there. I was positioned in a corner between an unused table and a wine rack so I was very glad to have brought the compact. With the L1, the table would have to have been removed. I put the compact along the wall to my right, behind me 3 ft and 1.5 ft to the right. I had already made my eq adjustments as earlier referenced and did no more tweaking on the T1.

I started off at a very low level with instrumental jazzy stuff while people finished up cocktail hour and started to find their tables. I will say that I was not disappointed with this low volume sound, even the elec. guitar. I have found with the L1 that below a certain threshold volume I am not happy with the vocal or guitar sound. I didn't feel this way with the compact.

I very gradually ramped up the volume on the T1 listening closely for eq issues as I had done zero soundcheck in this room. I was now into my "luncheon" set with soft rock vocal tunes...Stevie Wonder, Seals and Crofts, America, etc... with ac and elec guitar over backing tracks. Vocal sound was excellent. I was not in good voice this day and I feel like the system allowed me to lay back a bit while still getting the fullness and projection I needed. I turned up enough that I was enjoying the sound myself and observed casual conversation around the room was not a struggle. I got many thumbs up and a lot of smiles as I rolled out some old, forgotten gems tailored to this age group.

The party hosts had also hired an illusionist who performed tricks while roving thru the cocktail hour and had a 45 min set just before dessert. Once I had set up, the illusionist came up to me and asked if I could play a 2 min track for him as a prop during his set. I say "no problem" and we tested his disc to be sure the laptop could read it. He asked me how I liked the Bose, obviously being familiar with what it was, and asked me if I could crank it when I play his bit. "It'll crank, right?" "Don't worry". So that went well and I went back for a few more songs, picking up the tempo just a bit, before finishing by opening up the mics for the kids(mostly 8-12 yr old girls) to do some karaoke. I've done karaoke with this group before so it was kind of expected and I was ready to go with my secret weapon( 10 yr old daughter who doesn't mind breaking the ice!). 4 or 5 songs and it was time to go. A couple of trips to the car made me feel like I was cheating somehow!

I have to say there was no point in the show that I was distracted by the sound - thinking I need to eq, move the compact, etc. - It just performed. I still have a couple of weeks to return the unit but I'm compiling a pretty good list of reasons to keep it. The latest being:

Low Volume Performance...Somehow the mix seems to hold up better at low volume compared to my L1. When I've been disappointed with the compact sound was when I was trying to push
it up to where I should really be using the L1.

Guitar amp...This with my 3 channel tube pre and T1 is a mighty good sounding electric guitar rig. Add to that the bonus of being able to run acoustic and vocals if needed. Wow!

Stage Monitor...For larger outdoor gigs I can set the L1 out front for FOH and run the compact as a monitor on stage. I have yet to try this on a gig but I will soon.

I'm sure you all can come up with some more, but that's enough for me. Bottom line, I'm keeping the compact. It's just too good a unit not to have one.

Hi All

I posted a gig report last night on the compact and it was on the forum this morning and can't find it now. It was one of two gig reports and was quoted as being a good report.

Hi AJ,

It's over in the thread called Compact is Here.

Follow the link above to see it.

quote:

Originally posted by AJ:
Hi All

I posted a gig report last night on the compact and it was on the forum this morning and can't find it now. It was one of two gig reports and was quoted as being a good report.