So I had this great idea of adding a B1 to my Compact setup. I love my compact and use it 100x more than my L1 for so many reasons, but it lacks bass punch for certain gigs where the L1 is just too much to lug to the gig, but the compact with a little B1 sitting next to her would be ideal.

So I bought a Packlite amp today and thought here we go!! Wrong. no crossover (or Bass-out built into the Compact --why Bose????!!)

So now I'm complicating the **** out of my system by looking for a mini crossover that will run between my board and the A1. My little board can't do this, maybe thats where I should look. i assume they make them, but I was really hoping my extra $400 investment with my already $300 B1 investment would just make the perfect bridge between my compact, my compact extra bass, and my L1.

I'm contemplating buying this little guy http://www.amazon.com/Rolls-Ti...ssover/dp/B00102VWJK

Ultimately I foresee myself selling the A1 and going back to the drawing board. I do have a sweet Roland KCW-1 powered sub that destroys the B1 but it's like carrying 3 B1s.

help???

quote:

So now I'm complicating the **** out of my system by looking for a mini crossover that will run between my board and the A1

Been there, done that Kent, came up empty handed.
Well not totally empty, there are circuit board type crossovers that you can hardwire in to a box, but it's a hassle.
The Rolls device you found looks interesting too (but the single customer review does not look good).

The most interesting thing I've seen is Cap Capello's suggestion of an Energy ESW-M8 1200W subwoofer.
However, it is a home hifi unit that doesn't look particularly roadworthy.

I understand the frustration with the bass output of the Compact for percussionists.
So close, yet so far away.

Hi Kent,

I remember reading the discussion in the DJ forum that Drumr is referring to but I didn't have time to give it too much thought. The following is not an "out of the box" solution but I have a couple of minutes so:

One option I would consider is the Radio Design Labs ST-CX2S. A Radio Design Labs PS-24AS Power Supply would also be required. I would install it in a small metal enclosure with balanced 1/4" TRS jack hard wired to the ST-CX2S. I would also include a DC connector on the box to make the power supply connection simple.

What I like about the ST-CX2S is that it is of high quality, has balanced line level audio connections and is very compact: 1.55 X 3 X .65 inches. I think that its frequency response would be well suited to the B1 with a compact: 22 to 80 Hz (-5 dB at 100 Hz). It has a Boost Adjust centered at 30 Hz which I would dial down to eliminate this feature since this is below the B1 module's effective range.

Of course, one needs to be willing to build an enclosure and wire it up for this to be a convenient solution for adding an A1 PackLite® with one or two B1 bass modules.

There is also the ST-CX2 which would be another good choice. This is a Mono unit with a woofer output frequency response of 40 to 165 Hz with a Boost adjustment centered at 50 Hz. The ST-CX2 also features a full range output with a frequency response of 100 Hz to 30 kHz and mid-band attenuator centered a 2 kHz.

Either unit would be good candidates. The ST-CX2S does have two separate inputs that are summed to the sub output which could allow for two Compacts to feed the B1 setup. This unit may be better suited to this application as the frequency response seems more likely to utilize the B1 in the range that can be lacking with the Compact.

With the ST-CX2, the frequency response matches the B1 very well but I'm concerned that there may be too much overlap with the Compact's low frequency output. I'm leaning towards the ST-CX2S but I would be curious to try them both and compare. I am tempted to try this out but I don't have a current need of adding a B1 to my compact and I don't own an A1. But, the squirrel wheel is spinning in this old brain of mine!

Hi Mark,

Great ideas.

If I had an ear for what people want in terms of more bass out of the Compact I would probably try something like this.



Alesis MEQ 230


--∈∞ΘΞ Please click the picture for more details ΞΘ∞∋--

I have a couple of these in my old guitar rack. I haven't used them in seven years (since I got my L1®). But I was thinking that you can pick these up for a song, and for that matter, you may have something similar (and likely better) in a rack at your place.

So I wonder if someone could use this instead of a crossover (plus a couple of B1s and a PackLite) to figure out what kind of crossover or EQ would be useful here.

Note: Even if you find a good crossover point, you still wouldn't have the voicing for the B1s that you get when you use an L1® Power Stand. Maybe an equalizer could help with that too.

What do you think?

Kent - do you have something like this kicking around at your place?

Hi ST,

Yes, a graphic or even a parametric EQ (equalizer) could definitely be used instead of a crossover for experimentation. It may possibly provide acceptable results for a gig in a pinch. The concern as a permanent solution would be that a 12 dB cut in the unwanted high frequencies may not be sufficient as well as the likelihood of comb-filtering.

If I were to experiment with a dual EQ like the ones you have, I would connect the output of the Compact to the Channel A input of the EQ, then the Channel A output to the Channel B input and finally the EQ's Channel B output to the input of the A1 PackLite® amplifier. With this configuration you could Channel A to simulate one crossover curve and Channel B for a second crossover curve. You can then use each Channel Bypass Switch to audition the two settings. Once you decide on a setting then you can use the unused channel to further cut the unwanted frequencies.

At the very least this could be an affordable way to experiment.

Kent - if you don't have something like this, do you know someone who could lend one to you? A graphic equalizer is much more common than a crossover, especially a crossover with the proper settings.

quote:

One option I would consider is the Radio Design Labs ST-CX2S. A Radio Design Labs PS-24AS Power Supply would also be required. I would install it in a small metal enclosure with balanced 1/4" TRS jack hard wired to the ST-CX2S.

Hi Le5,
This is exactly what I found when considering putting together a project-box crossover.
Considering what ST said about this not giving you the "curve" that an L1 bass output applies to it's amp, is what led me to dropping the idea.
An EQ inline might help dealing with that, but now you'd have a lot of pieces to put together, something I don't relish after using the simple L1 by itself for so long.

Sorry it took a while to get back on here. Been on the road since I posted (gigs thankfully!)

I took my A1 and extra B1 with me, but didn't even bother with it as I knew I made a mistake.

Just adding anything else makes it so cumbersome and a mess that I see no reason to mess with the A1 now. If I need a powered sub, one that literally destroys my B1s, built in crossover, bottom, inverse, line outs, so many options, I'll use my Roland KCW-1
Bigger, heavier, but not immensely. Certainly not as easy as just throwing another B1 in the van of course, but since I don't use a rack of any kind adding a crossover seems to be ridiculous.

My setup is very simple, which people love. I can set up in mins and be playing if need be. I probably need to get rid of my L1 classic and get the model II for easier setup, but now I'm just getting lazy.

So, anyone need a non used A1?

hmmm, replied to this Saturday night and it's still not up.

Hi Kent,

If you have had that A1 for less than 30-45 days, you can return it to the dealer can't you?

I'm curious about this Roland KCW-1.
It blows away the B1? I've never heard of this Roland before.
The PDF manual for the KCW-1 does not give a frequency response nor a graph. That might be why I never looked into it when I was looking for subwoofers back when.
The B1 'oomf' and freq response was a great selling point to me. I had never heard such good low end from such a small and light weight package. I have two with two LII's.
Well, anyway, don't feel bad, I once bought a keyboard with only a USB midi connector and not the 5 pin din. I hope you work it out.

We are still checking on the return possibility. Apparently Bose doesn't sell many of these things so they (and my dealer) is not looking to put this back on the shelf! HA!

The KCW-1 (if they even still make it now) is far and away a much bigger sound than running 2 B1s. I think 2 B1s sounds really great, then I turn up the KC and WOW! It gives it that large live concert sound. Boom! Has a great built in crossover and adds that shake to everything. I run them side by side when doing large events where I have 2 L1s. I run my 2 b1s on one side and the KCW-1 on the other and that thing like I said, gives it that large concert bass sound, but without all the size and weight and price of a large say JBL sub.

Heres a photo of the back of it. KCW-1 connections I've thought about buying another one and not using the B1s but I like the multiple options I get with having 1 B1 -2B1s - 2 B1s +1 powered sub setups.& for $500, you can't beat it that I've found.

quote:

Originally posted by macmike100:
I'm curious about this Roland KCW-1.
It blows away the B1? I've never heard of this Roland before.
The PDF manual for the KCW-1 does not give a frequency response nor a graph. That might be why I never looked into it when I was looking for subwoofers back when.
The B1 'oomf' and freq response was a great selling point to me. I had never heard such good low end from such a small and light weight package. I have two with two LII's.
Well, anyway, don't feel bad, I once bought a keyboard with only a USB midi connector and not the 5 pin din. I hope you work it out.

Hi Kent,

If you purchased this from an authorized dealer, and it sounds like you did... then I am surprised that there is any question about this if you are within 30-45 days.

quote:

Originally posted by Kent Arnsbarger:
We are still checking on the return possibility. Apparently Bose doesn't sell many of these things so they (and my dealer) is not looking to put this back on the shelf! HA!

If you are getting resistance here - please try calling L1® Support and asking them if they can help you or redirect you to someone who can.

Call Bose® Product & Technical Support at (877) 335-2673 (U.S. and Canada only)
Monday-Friday: 8:30 AM - 9:00 PM ET
Saturday 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM ET
Currently no support available on Sunday

I would get on this right away as the clock is ticking.

Like ST said...since you said you bought this stuff on the 28th of July, it should be returnable and you should have plenty of time to hound this dealer into taking it back.

It's interesting about the KCW1 being like lugging around 3 B1's. Each B1 weighs 28 lbs...so it's more like carrying around only 2 B1's since the Roland weighs about 51 lbs.

I've only seen one online dealer selling them new...Sam Ash. Everyone else no longer carries them. I guess Roland has discontinued them.

Sounds like a nice choice for bringing the bass up a notch and not breaking your back. Just don't play it at the home for old folks though.

Ebay has some. Thanks for all this interesting info. Take care.

quote:

Originally posted by macmike100:
Like ST said...since you said you bought this stuff on the 28th of July, it should be returnable and you should have plenty of time to hound this dealer into taking it back.

It's interesting about the KCW1 being like lugging around 3 B1's. Each B1 weighs 28 lbs...so it's more like carrying around only 2 B1's since the Roland weighs about 51 lbs.

I've only seen one online dealer selling them new...Sam Ash. Everyone else no longer carries them. I guess Roland has discontinued them.

Sounds like a nice choice for bringing the bass up a notch and not breaking your back. Just don't play it at the home for old folks though.

Ebay has some. Thanks for all this interesting info. Take care.

Agreed, here is a photo of my ultra large setup that I very rarely use except for receptions of big out door concerts.

Just my .02 here. I don't think you mentioned a T1, and I see you are using the L1M1s, so I suspect you don't have one. However, I was looking at using my A1/B1 with my compact too. And while I have not had time to try it yet, I think some of the suggestions above with outboard gear would work on the T1 with no need for extra gear.
I put the compact on my Rock N Roller cart with just my keyboard when I have to do an outdoor ceremony. I was thinking of using one channel for my keyboard, and 2 for mics, and sending those out of the main out to the Compact. Then, take the output of the compact and feed it into the fourth channel on the T1, route it 100% to aux, and cut all the mids/highs on that channel with a shelf EQ. Then plug the Aux out into the A1. Now I have a pseudo crossover, and a separate volume control for the sub too! Again, I have not tried this yet as the last few gigs, I did not have time to experiment.

I do wonder if the bass EQ on Channel 1 of the compact will effect the output jack on the back of the compact too?

Great picture Kent. I always set the subs on the ground when I am on a stage like this.

Hi OneManBand,

quote:

Originally posted by OneManBand:
...
I do wonder if the bass EQ on Channel 1 of the compact will effect the output jack on the back of the compact too?

The EQ on Channel 1 affects only Channel 1, and that EQ is present in the line out at the back.

The Line Out is a mix of all the inputs, post level and EQ settings on the input panel.. There are some twists to this when working with Channel 2.

Notes: Compact: ¼ inch jack output EQ

restocking fee from Bose is $39. Seems pretty high for such a small box. Typical. I might just sell it on ebay so they lose a sale.

Hi Kent,

That doesn't sound in line with the policy on the Bose website.

quote:

Returns and exchanges

Satisfaction is guaranteed on all Bose® products purchased by consumers directly from Bose. We want you to be thrilled, so if you're not satisfied with your purchase for any reason, simply return it within the 30-day* trial period for a full refund.
*45 days for L1® systems.

Source: Returns and Exchanges

Maybe that is the local dealer's policy.

Have you talked to someone at L1® Support?

Call Bose® Product & Technical Support at (877) 335-2673 (U.S. and Canada only)
Monday-Friday: 8:30 AM - 9:00 PM ET
Saturday 9:00 AM - 5:00 PM ET
Currently no support available on Sunday


I'm not suggesting that they can do anything specific here, but if you want to escalate the issue of the restocking charge, it's a place to start.

Kent,
What's the round thing do? Just curious.

Also, outdoors the sub placement might not be a problem, but indoors and in a smaller room it will cause bass phase cancellation. Especially in a corner stage. Best to put the subs in the middle behind you.
But then there, in a smaller room, you'd probably use your smaller set up.
Nice set up though. Thanks for posting it.