I am putting together a solo act with EVI (midi wind controller), trumpet/flugel and tracks. Gigs will mostly be indoor corporate receptions. Any recommendations on which Bose system?
Thanks.

Hi trumpetdon,

Thank you for joining the message board. I'm glad you are here.

Could you tell us more about the gigs? How many people would be typical? Or what would be the normal size of space you would be filling? I'm trying to get a sense of the dimensions and probably the most important - the longest typical distance from you to the person farthest away who will be actively engaged in listening.

What style of music are you playing? Here, I am looking for a sense of how much bass content there is in your backing tracks.

The answers to these questions would help lead us to which Bose system might serve you best.

Thanks for writing back.

OK, here is more detail.

The gigs will be most often corporate reception background music. When I have done these with a trio (keys, bass, trumpet) the keys and bass players typically use small amps by Acoustic Image. No mic on trumpet. The amps sound great on the bandstand, but do not have good coverage (they are often on the floor). However, these gigs are typically "if they can hear us, we are too loud". There is little to no "active listening" by the guests. From the perspective of the event planner, softer is better. They continue to hire us for event after event. However, I have often felt that if we had better "coverage" but still were soft enough, we would musically "reach" more people and the event would be more successful. Guest count is often around 125. Room size varies, up to 5000 or 6000 sq ft (60 x 100).

There are some events where more guests are packed into smaller space (say, 200 pp in 2000 sq ft), and on these I know we can barely hear ourselves, if it is a lively room. There are a few larger events, more guests, big (over 9000 sq ft) ballroom as well. Few outdoor events.

As far as music styles - jazz standards, "smooth" jazz, some new age (Andean flute patches over synthy pads), world music (Brazilan coro), some Cirque D' Soleil. No dancing. Bass is about a nice sonic blend, not about chest thumpin'. I want enough "width" to the coverage, and full frequency response, to help the illusion of a live band rather than tracks. I may do some live loop playing with a pedal set-up (the Line 6 loop pedal with the drum tracks). But mostly will play over tracks with a wind synth and trumpet/flugel.

Ease of load is very important. My big rig, for my 10 - 16 pc band, requires a truck and three crew. It is high end equipment - Meyer and MacPherson speakers, Midas console, Neve and White EQ's etc. This new solo act needs to be moved by one person - me - and needs to make it in on one load with a four wheel dolly. The hotels I play at are very difficult to load into - traffic, loading docks, theft risk etc.

I do have some small Meyer speakers (UPM-2P) that I could use. These are designed for very specific coverage, not the wide coverage that the Bose systems are designed for. Anything larger I could not carry myself. When the L1 first came out I thought it was large, and lots of pieces. The Model II looks easier to move around, and the new Compact certainly is small enough. But is it enough system?

Thanks for your advise.

Don

I have played a lot of "background" type situations... art shows, receptions, parties, restaurants, corporate brunches. I use the classic with one B1. Can cover a larger area without being "loud". I do piano/keys with the walking bass sometimes and is very well balanced, and play acoustic guitar (all instrumentals so far)... only used a WX-5 into a VL 70m and midi to some other racks (Motif ES, Fantom XR, Proteus 1, Micro Ensemble )at my home parties and it shines for that for sure.

Hi trumpetdon,

I think that either a Model I or Model II will serve you well. They both will give you really consistent volume throughout the spaces you are talking about. The Compact would be just as loud close up, but will not give you the same projection into the space as you will get with the other models.

The Model II will give you are really even experience - better off-axis than the Model I, and I really enjoy how portable it is.

The excellent performance off-axis will give you lots of flexibility with respect to where you place it in a room. Basically, almost anywhere works. If it can be seen, it can be heard.

Thank you Kramster and ST.
If I went with the Model I or II, would I need a B1 in the performance contexts I have described?

Have you two personally used the Compact?
Thanks again.
Don

Hi trumpetdon,

quote:

Originally posted by trumpetdon:
Thank you Kramster and ST.
If I went with the Model I or II, would I need a B1 in the performance contexts I have described?

You would definitely want a B1 for the Model I. The Model II comes with a B1 and it designed to be used with it. And yes - you definitely have to have it for full range sound.

quote:

Have you two personally used the Compact?
Thanks again.
Don

Yes, I have been using a Compact all day as it happens, and have had it in rooms up to the size you described (side by side with a Classic / Model I and a Model II). I'll be doing that again tomorrow at a gig.

I am delighted with the Compact but getting up to rooms with a long dimension of 100 feet, I know that I would be more confident of reaching the room evenly with a Model I or Model II.

Great info, thank you!
OK, I understand about the B1 with the Model I and II. With the Compact, assuming there would be a drop off in coverage in a 100 ft room, for say, 70 or 80 feet would there be even coverage, both in bass and upper frequencies? And, to put it another way, where would the drop-off occur (in distance and frequency), and with what you understand about this kind of corporate background music gigs, what is the largest room the Compact would be appropriate for?

Don

Hi Don,

Indoors, for the kind of bass support you are describing - I think the coverage of the upper and lower frequencies is going to be comparable across the models. If you find that you do need more bass (larger gig, dancing required), then you definitely want a Model I or Model II because you can scale up the bass by adding more B1s. The Compact does not support this.

I have not done detailed comparisons of the different models. My main concern for you is that while you might well be able to get the Compact to project sound nearly as far as the Model I or Model II, the Compact will have to be louder, close up.

For your corporate background music gigs I think that you could be too loud for the people near the Compact if you can be heard by people 100 feet away.

I have no concerns about this issue (loud up close to be heard far away) with the Model I or Model II.

Does that help?

That is a big help, thank you.

I will audition the systems at a local GC with my wind controller, but of course that is nothing like a real gig.

Don

Before I got the Bose and played my WX5 through a small PA or headphones I thought it sounded pretty good. Got the Bose and plugged in and couldn't even believe it was the same set up. So rich full and so clear. Even some of the sounds that were so-so sound really good. Deep rich Bari sounds are ...WOW.
Another time I was playing outside, just piano stuff with a GEM pRP7, with one restaurant to my left about 45 degrees with seating about 25 feet from me and beyond and same with another restaurant to my right all about the same spacings and some craft booths in the middle and back about 30 ft and 40 ft across separating the eaterys. I cold fill the area nicely as background and still talk to people that came up to ask me things whilst I was playing (of course) and wasn't too loud to talk.
My folks stopped by and were about 50 ft behind me and down steps about 8 ft and could hear a very nice piano sound and they are old!.... good stuff eh. Got me more gigs as well.

I have read this thread about a "popping noise" with the Model II and a wind synth, later duplicated with a tone generator. Has this problem been resolved?

http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/for...944/m/7771058265/p/1

Don

quote:

Originally posted by ST:

I have not done detailed comparisons of the different models. My main concern for you is that while you might well be able to get the Compact to project sound nearly as far as the Model I or Model II, the Compact will have to be louder, close up.

For your corporate background music gigs I think that you could be too loud for the people near the Compact if you can be heard by people 100 feet away.

I have no concerns about this issue (loud up close to be heard far away) with the Model I or Model II.

Does that help?

Hey ST, I'm a little confused by your response here. I wonder why the compact would necessarily be "louder up front", when the entire concept of these systems is "hearing in the back, as it is in the front"? If you have to turn up the L1 or LII, no matter how loud, won't the sound still be evenly distributed, so why not the compact?

I would think that however far the sound can reach, the dispersion would still be in effect. Why would this be different? If we are to pay two to three times what a "typical" powered speaker would be, I'd expect it to do what an L1 or II can do, but perhaps just not quite as powerfully, no?

Hi Saxman7

quote:

Originally posted by Saxman7:
when the entire concept of these systems is "hearing in the back, as it is in the front"? If you have to turn up the L1 or LII, no matter how loud, won't the sound still be evenly distributed, so why not the compact?

The line array in the Compact is shorter than the line array in the Classic / Model I or Model II. This means that "the back" is closer with the Compact than it is with the other L1® models.

Here are a couple of quotes from Ken-at-Bose.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken-at-Bose:

[...]

When we set any of the L1 systems up side by side they are designed to sound tonally very, very similar, by design.

Now, it is true that the array on the Compact is much smaller than on the Model I and that means there's a significant difference in how rapidly sound diminishes with distance from the two units. That level difference at some distances is real. But if you balance the level the tone should be very similar.

[...]

Ken

Since you are using wind controllers, you may also be interested in this bit of information about bass with the Compact.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken-at-Bose:
You definitely will hear a difference in the bass between the L1 Compact and the Model I (with B1) or Model II (always with one or more B1s).

The reason is that the B1 goes deeper by about 1/2 octave, which is significant if you're playing an instrument that's demanding in that range.

I do not expect you to hear significant differences on instruments that do not excite in that bottom half octave.

Let me put this another way: we could not "voice" the Compact to sound like the other L1 systems in the one range (approx 40-50 Hz) that it does not put out energy.

[...]

Ken

I thought I would offer some thoughts regarding trumpetdon's original posting. I've been a windcontroller performer now for over 20 years, and cut my teeth using lot's of different sound gear combinations (synth and amp/speaker combinations). One thing that caused me great notice years ago when I initially experiemented with Bose as my sound reinforcement gear was how different all of my patches were sounding.My ear had become accustomed to something quite different in tone, tenor and general 'feel' of most every patch I played regularly - both self-tweaked and Patchman sound banks. What I first thought might have been some deficiency in the new sound I was hearing, became a realization that I had become unused to clarity in a big way. The muddiness I would experience through standard gear, especially in group playing, was perceived always as a need for increased volume as gigs wore on - and we've all experienced the ear fatigue that drives bands to turn up louder and louder throughout an evening. Almost every band, on almost every gig, was like that. I was becoming fatigued with even the thought of playing live, due to the challenges of sound reproduction.

But I digress.....

As a wind synth performer I found myself having to go back to each and every patch I used (now hearing them in a whole new way through the Bose L1's) and re-tweeking them (much of it in volume levels and EQ parameters). Much of my tweeking was in the bass range EQ's. On many patches through standard gear what bass levels were then heard as excessive and cluttering my sounds now often became lacking through the L1. I was forced to EQ most all of my patches over time. But after playing these sounds through L1's now since inception, I realize I almost never have ear fatique when playing with others - I can always find my sound in the mix, even when playing with others not using L1's. And in my own bands (everything from solos to 17 piece orchestras, and primarily my 9-piece swing/show band) where we use L1's exclusively (up to 7 L1's with the swing band), it's simply always been within 95% of perfect, both on stage and for the audience, right from downbeat and throughout the whole performance.

Interestingly, as I write this I realize I keep wandering back to my newfound pleasure playing live with others agai. It seems to sneak into my discussions fairly subconsciously, and has been that way for the last 6 or 7 years. I love playing live through this gear. I still cringe when performing at events where I must use traditional gear. My experience as a listener and performer is much more similar to listening to a studio mixdown session now (where the goal is to be able to hear EVERYthing in the mix, not just my own parts or sections) using this gear - it's changed the way I think about listening on stage.

I suppose my point is that L1 technology brought a paradigm shift in the way I thought about live performance that became much greater than the sum of the technical parts (smaller footprint, less gear overall, stage control in the hands of performers, lower stage volumes, etc etc). My expectation is that you may have similar experiences with your windcontroller sounds through this gear.

The best recommendation I have is to experience this yourself - using your instruments, playing your music, in your familiar sound spaces. It is not a simple "Do I like red, or blue, better?" decision - so it begs your thoughtful consideration.

I know this response rambled a bit - I'm way out of practice posting. But it is from the heart, and worth every bit of the $0.02 I got for writing it. (What - I'm not getting paid for this!?!?!?!???)

Ken

BTW - I can personally vouch for both ST and Ken-at-Bose, both posters on this particular thread. They are, among many, many other fine folks either working for Bose or simply supportive of this list, people I consider to be of the highest calibre to be found anywhere, and I am always honored to be counted as among their many friends.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jazzhorn1,

Hi Ken,

It is SO GOOD to hear from you.

Your expertise is incredible.

Ken

Hey my brother - I miss you madly

Deidra & I send our love

Hey Ken B.

I echo Ken J in saying welcome back. I still so fondly remember the conference in Ashland when you led us through an incredible musical journey on Monday evening.

Please post more. It's great to "see" you on the board again.

My best to you and Deidra,

Rick Jordan

Wasn't that a blast, Rick? Such talented people, that leave such indelible marks on our hearts and memories by being totally in-the-moment, freely offering their gifts of talent. You are fondly remembered! :-)

I am a wind controller performer doing a solo act with backing tracks. I use a EVI/ EWI into a Roland XV5050, Yamaha VL70m with Patchman Turbo ans a Alesis QSR w/ Patchman patches. Most stuff I do is cocktail hour and receptions/ conventions. I use 2 powered speakers mid quality and sound is ok at low volume levels but I always want to turn it up slightly to get more punch. This as we all know tends to offend in those type gigs. I am considering the L1 Compact but am concerned about the 1/2 octive of lows missing compared to the L1 talked about in this forum. Secondly, I thought about using one compact for left out of my mixer and one compact for right out. Any thoughts on this. Will I get stereo effect out of patches and tracks?