I would like to add some simple rhythm (percussion) to my playing. I used to use (at home) a cheap keyboard that had a few decent sounds. All I need is 3-4 rhythms (samba, waltz, 4/4 rock, etc.) and a tempo control. Really nothing beyond that. I don't want to get into programming or elaborate accompaniment yet.

I saw a guy in a coffeehouse once who had a small black box with just what I need, but they don't make it anymore.

Is there anything out there you know of that doesn't have the capability of the Space Shuttle or the cost of a '59 Les Paul?

I no longer own the keyboard, and I really don't want to lug one around to gigs just for some drums...

Hey Tres - I have not checked in a while but Zoom made a decent drum machine and it was cheap, also the Boss/Roland stuff is good and they have basic models. They are also small. You can put them in a guitar case.

Thanks, Roy, that's what I was looking for. I use to have a Boss Dr. Rhythm, but it was way overkill and difficult to use. I'll check into the Zoom thing...

I think anything you buy today is going to be more then you need. It is just so cheap to build a box that does everything.

Tres,
Maybe you have already written about considering a Porchboard somewhere and I missed it. If not I would strongly urge you to consider a Porchboard over a drum machine. The Porchboard is so natural and organic. It adds a whole other dimension to your sound without ever sounding mechanical and electronic.

I have tons of good friends who use drum machines and/or backing tracks. I don't want it to seem like I'm slighting those who go that route but I'd like to think that when people see me with my Porchboard they appreciate the fact that I'm actually playing every instrument they hear when I'm stage.

Matt

Hi Tres,

I also use a PorchBoard.

When I play solo I frequently use changes in tempo in much the same way I use changes in volume (guitar, vocal) to bring interest, to draw in the audience, or propel a song from one section to the next.

If the song is going over well, I may do an extra solo or do some scatting or bring it down, slow it down, do a verse in half-time or who-knows maybe even switch time signatures or double-time a chorus.

This all comes super-naturally with the Porchboard.

My PorchBoard story

Yes, I have considered a Porchboard. I'm not sure I'm that coordinated. I may have to rig up a fake one at home just to see if it will work (during practice). If it seems like it would, then I could buy a real one for live use.

I think it would be fine for straight-ahead rhythms, I'm just not sure I could do it for latin stuff and odd rhythms. I'll have to try it...

Bonjour Tres,

It might be overkill, but I have the Boss RC-50 LoopStation. It has many different styles and rhythms that can be accelerated or decelerated. You can also change the tempo on the fly with one of the footswitches.

As a bonus you have all these phrases that you can use to loop guitar and voice...

You can also find your own rhythm (from a MIDI file of your favorite song for example) and load it onto the LoopStation through USB as a wave file. I am trying it out with "Use me" from Bill Withers and it's really fun.

Cheers,

Hey Tres - If I was going in your direction I would look into the Loop Station. It sounds like you would get more options from a musical point of view then just drums. Either way there will be a learning curve. As far as the porchboard goes wrap some foam rubber around a
SM-57 and start a stompin. It's an old trick but it works. PS - The web site looks good. I like the new look. Roy

Thanks, guys! I will try all of the above...

Roy - Thank you! I assume you went to the website in my signature? That's for my ministry. I still have the regular music website up, although the provider completely wiped it all out a few months ago (NICE!) and I'm still getting around to improving/restoring that one...

PS: "old" tricks are what I count on you for!

There is always the VERY easy to use Alesis SR16... attach 2 pedals and you can start/stop and change patterns on the fly.

Like this: Start pattern A. Play 1st verse. Press the other pedal. After a special fill pattern, it starts playing pattern B for your chorus. Press the same pedal again...another fill pattern plays and takes you back to pattern A.
It is limited to 50 user patterns... and I don't know if they ever upgraded the sounds in it, but for basic needs...it rocks.
They FINALLY upgraded it after almost 20 years, to the SR18. So you can probably find used SR16's for very little cash.

For basic drum needs... not much beats it. The loop pedal thing sounds very appealing, though
Or maybe use one of those Drum apps, and put it on an mp3 player. That way you can control the whole song... but like ST said... you can not add a chorus or so, in case people are late to get up on the dance floor.

Thanks, Roxville.

I actually have had too many irons in the fire (fish to fry?) to pursue any of this yet, but I will take all advice in to account!

I'm still working on paying off the Bose...but I'm sure this will become an issue before long.

Actually, I've run into two fairly good musicians, a drummer and an bassist/keyboardist/drummer/guitarist, who both are interested in playing out with me. I was excited for a moment, but I realized that neither have an L1, neither can afford to buy an L1, and I don't want to run drums/bass/guitar/voice thru one L1. Even then I'd have to buy another pair of B1's, which I can't do just yet.

Back to square one...

Yeah man, I know what you mean... I got my L1 in... april or may...and that's how long I'll be paying on it in 2010. My amazingly supportive wife lets me keep what I make on my sunday gig (bar, not church) for myself... I've been able to buy a new mic (Audix OM5) and another B1. I was dumb enough to convine our bassplayer to dicth his amp and play through my system...we also have a Cajon player...he goes through it, too.
The other singer only has a L1 Compact, so he is left all alone with his system. The bassplayer still wants HIS sound... which is pretty loud and "bassy". *sigh*
He takes a lot of oomph from my sound. Sometimes it feels like my notes "die" in his... like a limiting effect. Or like Moby Dick, lol.
I know it hurts to be the pioneer with the only wagon with four wheels on it but you are strong, man...you are STRONG!

Just out of curiosity: what does a "bassist/keyboardist/drummer/guitarist" look like?
Lemmy/Paul Shaffer/Ringo Starr/Keith Richards...or something? The visual is scary

Anyway, that guy NEEDS a BOSE...BADLY!

Hi Tres,

quote:

Originally posted by Troisnoir:
Thanks, Roxville.

I actually have had too many irons in the fire (fish to fry?) to pursue any of this yet, but I will take all advice in to account!

I'm still working on paying off the Bose...but I'm sure this will become an issue before long.

Actually, I've run into two fairly good musicians, a drummer and an bassist/keyboardist/drummer/guitarist, who both are interested in playing out with me. I was excited for a moment, but I realized that neither have an L1, neither can afford to buy an L1, and I don't want to run drums/bass/guitar/voice thru one L1. Even then I'd have to buy another pair of B1's, which I can't do just yet.

Back to square one...

It may not be the ideal, but can you just let these people be responsible for their own sound... however they do it? In other words

• the drummer brings his/her own drums
  ** and microphones and amplification if s/he uses that
  
• the bassist/keyboardist/drummer/guitarist brings his/her own bass, keyboards, drums, guitars
  ** and microphones and amplification if s/he uses that
  

I know that in SOME bands the PA is a shared resource, but it doesn't mean that the solo guy with an L1® HAS to share when others want to join him.

I liken this to the old days when you might sing and play through your guitar amp, but I think to most guitarists it would be inconceivable to have two guitarists sharing a single combo amp. At least not for very long.

Hi roxville,

quote:

Originally posted by roxville:
...
I was dumb enough to convince our bassplayer to ditch his amp and play through my system

Unconvince him.
or...

quote:

...we also have a Cajon player...he goes through it, too.

Maybe the two of them can come up with another solution. Like maybe rent and share an amp (L1® or otherwise - their choice, not yours).

quote:

The other singer only has a L1 Compact, so he is left all alone with his system. The bass player still wants HIS sound... which is pretty loud and "bassy". *sigh*

So he should bring his own amp and then he can do what he wants - and if you don't like it - you can hire someone else.

quote:

He takes a lot of oomph from my sound. Sometimes it feels like my notes "die" in his... like a limiting effect. Or like Moby Dick, lol.

If the two or three of you are hitting the same beats or the same notes hard enough to swamp one anothers' sound, you could fruitfully look at the musical arrangements to see if it is REALLY necessary that you are all playing at the same time in the same way contributing the same emphasis, to the same point, in the song.

Check out Playing better with the L1® System

quote:

I know it hurts to be the pioneer with the only wagon with four wheels on it but you are strong, man...you are STRONG!

I'm not being pushy about this in a hypothetical way. Hey guys - Some of us have been out in the wilds for awhile now.

quote:

Just out of curiosity: what does a "bassist/keyboardist/drummer/guitarist" look like?
Lemmy/Paul Shaffer/Ringo Starr/Keith Richards...or something? The visual is scary

Anyway, that guy NEEDS a BOSE...BADLY!

Agreed. Whether or not everyone gets an L1® is one thing, but simply understanding that everyone is responsible for his/her own sound comes first.

In days gone by, I took on the role of the producer of the band. That is: paying for just about everything from instruments, microphones, strings, cables, transportation, PA, and at times even paying other guys' rent, and picking them up just make sure they got to the gig.

These days I only play with guys who can take care of themselves in hold their own in every possible way on the stage too.

So Tres, and Roxville,

Check out L1® Business Models, thinking out loud.

I have the Zoom drum machine ($99 one)

Just so you know you can get a footwitch and assign any sound to the footswitch.

For example I assigned the footswitch to sound the kick drum whenever I hit it.

Much cheaper than the porchboard and if you are using a compact you still will get a decent thump.

I paid under $50 for the footswitch AND the Zoom through ebay! Porchboard is 4 times that.

I had a porchboard and its good but if I stand up and do four hour gigs with it i can barely walk the next day.

quote:

It may not be the ideal, but can you just let these people be responsible for their own sound... however they do it? In other words


* the drummer brings his/her own drums
** and microphones and amplification if s/he uses that
* the bassist/keyboardist/drummer/guitarist brings his/her own bass, keyboards, drums, guitars
** and microphones and amplification if s/he uses that

Oh, absolutely - I realize that. I feel no obligation at all to purchase everyone else's gear, that's not the problem. The problem is, and you may feel this is silly, but I won't go back to the old days before the L1. Not just the quality of sound, but the manner in which we use it - it's just better. The problem is, they won't buy L1's for themselves (I can't necessarily blame them), and I won't play with anything else. My bad, perhaps, but there it is...

quote:

Just out of curiosity: what does a "bassist/keyboardist/drummer/guitarist" look like?
Lemmy/Paul Shaffer/Ringo Starr/Keith Richards...or something? The visual is scary Big Grin

Well obviously, he doesn't play them all at once! But he can play any of those instruments, whatever I'd like him to. At this point, I'm looking at bass...

I suppose it would be easier to persuade them to invest in Bose equipment once we were gigging successfully, but what do you do in the mean time?

I am considering trying everyone through one Bose, it could work, and I don't know that it wouldn't. I just know what the responses have been on this forum, and my own experience using monitors with everyone in the mix.

But I'm not ready to nix it yet...

Amen and I second the Alesis the SR-16 and now the SR-18. The hands down best for what you want. You can program it if you want, but the presets will be all you need.
You can pick one up on ebay for 100 bucks usd or less and a new one ain't much more.
You really need two foot switches (also cheep)

good luck--leo

Thanks, guys!

I will check out the Alesis. I checked out the Zoom, and although it has some of what I want, it's very difficult to use live, on the fly. Also quite a bit of presets I'll never use.