Hey all, I had the thread 'Lower Volumes'. I had a long talk with a fairly knowledgeable store manager at the local GC. My partner and I decided to buy it to work with it before our gig this Friday.
What a clear sound this has. Some 'noise' when running through a mixer, but I think it was plugged in a different circut, and after reading up, they will be plugged in the same outlet at the gig.
Lower volumes will not be a big concern for feedback, but we have some gigs coming up where volume will be higher. A learning curve, for sure. Thanks to this forum and info provided by Bose on this website, I feel confident at setting up the Bose for good results.
We are an acoustic duo. 2 vocals, 2 guitars. Sometimes a miced mandolin. Sometimes a guest joins us. A harmonica player is to join us this weekend.
My partner hasn't tested out the new Bose with me. That comes Friday.. at the gig! I'm sure she'll love it.
My wife's first comments when she saw it was, "Wow! That is so cool!"
When trying it out, I noticed that my undersaddle pickup is sensititve to my fingers hit the strings while fingerpicking. But useing my Fishman Rare Earth Blend does not have this problem at all. The Rare Earth B is my favorite way to go, anyway. I run my guitar through a LRBaggs ParaDI.
I keep you updated on how it goes. Thanks to all with helping me out to get me to this point!
Cool! Best of luck at your gig.
For the most gain before feedback get your trims dailed in and point the mic "just above" the top of the L1. Imagine it has a laser pointer built into it. If you angle it up just a bit you're gain before feedback will go up quite a bit.
Keep us posted.
|Research & Development|
Thank you for your business.
Remember,when you're trying to sing your loudest your lips should be touching the windscreen. This simple tool will allow you to get ferociously loud vocals (I am assuming you've read and know how to set the trim on the PS1).
Best of luck. We all await your review, and are here to help and support you.
I hope to get setup early at the first gig. I had trim set, I feel, ok with just me. But with two of us using the mixer for vocals going into channel 1 on the Bose, the trim on the Bose will have to be turned down, due to more vocal. Yes? I'm just hopeing the setup goes well. Not worried, though.
Congrats and thanks for purchasing your new system!
What make/model of mixer and mics will you be using at the first gig? Also, what kind of noise were you getting from the mixer? Hum? Hiss? Knowing this will help us make specific recommendations that you may find helpful.
You can expect that the level will probably be hotter (maybe a lot hotter) coming out of the mixer than it was coming straight out of the mic. The trick will be to set the gain properly at every stage of the signal path. That path gets a bit longer when you introduce the mixer. A little extra time (ideally, well before showtime) setting each path properly will be time well spent...
It might go something like this:
One thing to remember - Whenever possible, run a mic (or pickup) directly into PS1 Channel 1 or 2. This will give you the best result every time. If everything sounds great through the mixer except for say one of the vocals or instruments, plug the problem vocal or instrument directly into an open Channel 1 or 2 on the PS1 and use the presets - I've often found them to work small miracles!
I think that you're taking exactly the right approach to this by getting as much figured out before the show as possible. Let us know if we can be of any further help...
[edit - fixed some typos - 'hope I got 'em all...]This message has been edited. Last edited by: Chuck-at-Bose,
EDIT, Chuck and I were typing at the same time I suppose.
He gives good and much more detailed suggestions. Good luck with your setup.
Most folks that are using a mixer, will get the neccessary gain with the mixer and leave the PS1 input gain at or very near 0.
Start with all (mixer and remote) EQ controls flat (in the 12:00 position).
If vocal mics are the same model, use suggested preset or chosen favorite whichever suits your taste.
If mics are not the same model try preset V.2 # 03 or 04.
If the venue is not real big, or the audience is not real loud, you can operate without the remote connected. That will allow the PS1 to operate as if "all" remote controls were set at 12:00, and in my experience works fine in all but the loudest situations.
Are you using XLR or 1/4" outs from the mixer?
On short runs, say less than 12', 1/4" jacks are not usually a problem. Longer runs may or may not get noisey.
XLR's can provide a signal that is too hot for the PS1 input and may require pads for the best operation.
Hope this helps.
Mics are Shure Beta 58A for vocals. Mixer is a Peavy PV10. Noise is a hiss. I think the gain problem was at the mixer. I found good info tonight about this on the forum. Set gain at the mixer first, I see. I'll print your notes and use them as a guide. Thanks Chuck and Oldghm.
I run XLRs from the mixer to the PS1. Left(vocals)ch1, right (instruments)ch2.
Cool. Pan the Beta 58As hard left and feed the mixer's left output to PS1 Channel 1. Start Channel 1 on Preset 16 (Beta 58A), but don't be afraid to listen to some other presets (03, 04), too. Pan the instruments hard right and feed the mixer's right output to PS1 Channel 2 set to either Preset 00, or maybe one of the 'acoustic guitar with pickup' presets...
Great advice from Oldghm, too. I would only add that you might also start with the mixer's eq set to flat (12:00), so you can accurately hear what the presets are doing. Once you decide on the best preset, you can then fine tune individual signals using the mixer's eq and the overall submix using the R1 Remote's eq. Lastly, for now, the XLR jacks on the PS1 are expecting a 'mic' level signal. If the output of the mixer is too hot, even with the PS1 Trims all the way down, either pad down the XLRs by 20dB (i.e. Whirlwind IMP PAD 20), or go 1/4" unbalanced...
Best of luck! Please let us know how it goes...
I set it up at home tonight and redid everything. Setting the gain as Chuck suggested, and it works great! And the tip about useing 1/4" from mixer to PS1 was a must do. And was just the ticket!! More after the gig. ......Dave
Great! Looking forward to hearing about the gig. Break a leg!
The gig at the art store went great! A snap to set up. A snap to tear down. The harmonica player that joined us for this gig, was really into it. He thought it was amazing. The sound easily filled the store.
It took about 20 minutes of fussing to get the eq right for the room, and to to get the lady singer's mic and guitar gained correctly. We allowed plenty of time for this.
My partner's voice sounds like heaven through the Bose!!! (her voice is wonderful. it deserves the best!)
Overall, my partner and I think that it's a keeper, though we will use it somemore to be sure, but we are completely pleased with it. We used 2 acoustic guitar amps before.. hard to mix, couldn't hear ourselves real well. All of that is corrected useing the Bose system. We sound better because we can hear ourselves. Here is a pic And one more pic. Notice how little space this unit takes up! Going from 2 amps on amp stands to this is fantastic!
Thanks to all for all the help.
DaveThis message has been edited. Last edited by: dave42,
These are correct ones to use? Just making sure before proceding. The 1/4" cables worked great, but I was useing 3' cables and think xrl with paps might be worth having if I need to make a longer run.
You may not need to use the XLR cables. I've had fine results (without problems) with 25 foot unbalanced cables.
Even with the XLR cables, you may not need to get the - 20 dB pads. I'd try the cables alone first to see if it's an issue.
I'm just looking at the manual for your PV10 and I'll let you know if there's anything interesting there.
ST, As Chuck-at-Bose pointed out above, the mixer, when properly gained, might be too hot for the Bose, and this, indeed, did happen. Without that info, I may have been not as pleased with the result. Thanks for your input. I'll stick with the 1/4" for now. I've used your guides alot! As I've told everyone who wants to know about the Bose, The help on the forum is worth a good bit of the purchase price of the unit!!!!
Hi again Dave,
Here's an excerpt from page 15 of the manual.
There's no harm in trying the XLR cables just so you know what to expect if you ever run into noise issues with the ¼ inch cables. From what I'm reading, it should be okay although you may need to turn down the outputs on the Peavey and turn down the trims on the Bose end. There should still be plenty of signal.
ST, So you're saying, if I used XLR cables and turned down the mains on the mixer, I should get useable/same results as I do with the 1/4"?
Thanks for the tips,
You can only tell so much from the specs. If you get a chance, could you give it a try and let us know how it goes?
It wouldn't surprise me if it turned out fine.
ST and dave42,
It would appear from the info above that the 1/4" outs on the Peavey are balanced TRS, so the signal value would be the same as the XLR.
On the other end, the PS1 input, I think the 1/4" is unbalanced and designed to accept a hotter signal than the XLR. Is that true ST, or jumbled misinformation on my part?
There was some interesting facts in Kyle's report on the Church installation. He noted that he used pads between the Yamaha mixer and the PS1 inputs and then was able to boost the PS1 input gain, which puts the Bose preamps to work. I'm not sure if this method is a sound improvement or just a cause and effect solution to good signal gain staging.
I recently did some on site trouble shooting for a user having difficulties with a mixer / PS1 combination. He did not have pads or 1/4" equipped patch cords long enough for his needs. To make the system work correctly we had to really pull the mixer L&R outputs down to keep from overloading the PS1 inputs. This resulted in losing the visual indicators of proper output signal on the mixer and was confusing to him.
Even if pads are not absolutely needed to make the system work correctly, they may be worth the investment if they allow a quick visual check that everything is functioning correctly when using XLR connections.
I think we're reading the situation the same way. The Peavey information doesn't tell us that there any differences in the signal level.
Yes... the ¼ inch inputs (for Channels 1/2/3/4) on the PowerStand are all unbalanced and are designed to accept hotter inputs than the XLR input.This message has been edited. Last edited by: ST,
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