I play a Yamaha Tyros 3 keyboard through a L1 Model II single bass package with ToneMatch, and sing through a Shure SM58 and have a guest mic (Shure SM57) for singers at this place. Both mics go through the ToneMatch.

This is a place that I've always found pretty tricky and I attach a sketch (done in Visio then PDF as I couldn't see how to show the whole room with the Sketcher tool and which shows the approx layout, which is the point of the question).

It's a Club for Veterans and current servicemen and they love a good singsong and I love them dearly too, lots of good-humoured banter (the Navy seem to come off worse as there are so few of them right inland; we're not a seagoing port) and I know of no audience which sings with more gusto after a couple of pints!

The ceiling is very low - probably about 12' and the place is normally absolutely packed. I don't think I've shown the place at the right size - I think it's bigger than this.

Anyway I haven't played there before since I got the Bose Model ll single bass with T1, except outside in their garden during the summer (which was easy and worked well).

I've got a gig inside the Club coming up on Remembrance Day and I'd be grateful for advice as to how to position the Bose - ? Position A or Position B?

Before the Bose I always had volume problems there even using a 300w Fortifier. Even at pretty near full volume everything just got absorbed like in cotton wool.

I know the Bose will be much clearer but wonder whether I should take my Yamaha MSR400 powered speaker as well to serve as an extra Bass unit? I did this last year a few times outside (taking a line from the Bass Line Out) with success. But as you see in the sketch, space is at a premium. I probably could find room for the MSR400 if pushed.

What do you think?

Freddie

PS I've had trouble posting the ZIP file of a PDF. So here's a free download of either a JPEG or PDF :
http://www.4shared.com/file/13...78b2/BL_Banbury.html
[URL=http://www.4shared.com/file/134291519/273678b2/BL_Banbury.html http://www.4shared.com/file/13...4/BL_Banbury.html]BL Banbury[/URL] http://www.4shared.com/file/13...a294/BL_Banbury.html

Why can't we send files in PDF. It's the same as an image! And my JPEG kept getting rejected too.
Freddie
freddie@easiplan.biz h

Hi Freddie,

That's a nice diagram

quote:

Originally posted by Fruityfj:

Why can't we send files in PDF. It's the same as an image! And my JPEG kept getting rejected too.
Freddie

The forum software is set up to handle typical image files in .gif, .jpg, .png formats up to about 200 kilobytes.

Your file is 1,872 kilobytes.

I downloaded the file and shrunk it to 800 pixels wide. That is the maximum that will be displayed here on the forum.

At 800 pixel wide your file is 48 kilobytes.

Hi Freddie,

quote:

Originally posted by Fruityfj:

The ceiling is very low - probably about 12' and the place is normally absolutely packed. I don't think I've shown the place at the right size - I think it's bigger than this.

Normally I am not overly concerned about low ceiling height since the L1® does not send much sound upward anyway. I don't see it as a concern here.

quote:

Anyway I haven't played there before since I got the Bose Model ll single bass with T1, except outside in their garden during the summer (which was easy and worked well).

I've got a gig inside the Club coming up on Remembrance Day and I'd be grateful for advice as to how to position the Bose - ? Position A or Position B?

Before the Bose I always had volume problems there even using a 300w Fortifier. Even at pretty near full volume everything just got absorbed like in cotton wool.

I would put the Model II in position A - as this will be beside you and possibly even a little in front of your ears. You should still be able to hear it but what you are hearing may not have quite all the highs that you would hear if you were in front of it. But you should be able to get a little more gain before feedback this way.

quote:

I know the Bose will be much clearer but wonder whether I should take my Yamaha MSR400 powered speaker as well to serve as an extra Bass unit? I did this last year a few times outside (taking a line from the Bass Line Out) with success. But as you see in the sketch, space is at a premium. I probably could find room for the MSR400 if pushed.

I looked at the Yamaha web page for the Yamaha MSR400. I would probably bring it with me, just in case it helps. Whether or not it will help is difficult to predict. If you can, put the B1 and the MSR400 side by side (touching if you can) so that all the drivers act as one. Listen to the sound with and without the ¼ inch jack cable inserted in the Model II Power Stand. Don't just turn off the power on the MSR400.

The Model II Power Stand will detect the presence of something physically plugged into the Bass Line Out and lower the output to the B1 to compensate. This sounds odd, but the idea is to keep the overall spectral balance at lower volume. As you turn the system louder, things remain balanced. So at low levels you may not detect any benefit from the MSR400. At higher levels it may help. But there are a lot of factors (placement in the room probably being the biggest), and you don't have control of everything. So I would be prepared, take it, and not be surprised either way if it helps or it doesn't.

quote:

What do you think?

Freddie

Thanks for the great picture Freddie!

quote:

Originally posted by ST:
Hi Freddie,

That's a nice diagram

quote:

Originally posted by Fruityfj:

Why can't we send files in PDF. It's the same as an image! And my JPEG kept getting rejected too.
Freddie

The forum software is set up to handle typical image files in .gif, .jpg, .png formats up to about 200 kilobytes.

Your file is 1,872 kilobytes.

I downloaded the file and shrunk it to 800 pixels wide. That is the maximum that will be displayed here on the forum.

At 800 pixel wide your file is 48 kilobytes.

Thanks ST and I understand about the jpeg file but I would've thought that you'd be pleased to receive PDF files.

Thanks ST. I'll do just that put the Bose in Position A and take the MSR400 to serve as a second bass module.

I'm hiring a second Bose bass module this weekend because some other act wants to play his MP3's through my MSR400 and as it's a charity event it's difficult to say No AND they're paying for the hire of the 2nd Bose unit. So I'll be interested to compare the difference between the MSR400 and the 2nd Bose Bass module. But forwarned is forarmed so I won't be surprised/disapointed if the MSR400 makes little or no difference.

Many thanks again.

Freddie

Hi Freddie,

quote:

Thanks ST and I understand about the jpeg file but I would've thought that you'd be pleased to receive PDF files.

I double checked on the PDF files. The forum software does not allow for selection of individual file types, but rather - families of file types. PDF files are grouped in with several other types that could be troublesome and there isn't a way to split up the group.

A zip file (up to 500 kilobytes) should have been fine.

Hello Mark from Upper Peninsula

Please see this new discussion for your question:

Martin OMC Aura - Preset recommendation needed

Hi Freddie,

This is great. You will have a chance to hear your L1® with two B1s. It's hard to predict what will happen with your MSR400, but with the second B1:

• At low volume the difference will be subtle. That is by design. You shouldn't get twice as much low end. If you did, then you would have to adjust things to compensate
  
• What you should find is that as you get louder, you can continue to get louder and have the overall spectral balance stay consistent up to higher volumes that you could get with a single B1.
  

This deceptively simple result is described more fully here if you are interested.

Model II Bass Line Out

quote:

Originally posted by Fruityfj:
Thanks ST. I'll do just that put the Bose in Position A and take the MSR400 to serve as a second bass module.

I'm hiring a second Bose bass module this weekend because some other act wants to play his MP3's through my MSR400 and as it's a charity event it's difficult to say No AND they're paying for the hire of the 2nd Bose unit. So I'll be interested to compare the difference between the MSR400 and the 2nd Bose Bass module. But forwarned is forarmed so I won't be surprised/disapointed if the MSR400 makes little or no difference.

Many thanks again.

Freddie

quote:

Originally posted by ST:

• At low volume the difference will be subtle. That is by design. You shouldn't get twice as much low end. If you did, then you would have to adjust things to compensate
  
• What you should find is that as you get louder, you can continue to get louder and have the overall spectral balance stay consistent up to higher volumes that you could get with a single B1.
  

This deceptively simple result is described more fully here if you are interested.

Model II Bass Line Out
[QUOTE]

That's exactly the sort of info I was looking for even if - when it comes to it - at the risk of predjudicing my own ears before the event, if you see what I mean. I'd rather go in fully informed. I'll know what to look for now.

I've always found hitherto in the Club that I described above that my equipment, strained to the limit, was simply inadequate.

I'll let you know how I get on.

I haven't looked at your suggested reading on the line out yet - but will do so next.

Thanks so much again

Freddie

ST I thought you might be interested to learn of the results of how I got on with a second Bose Bass Mosule. I borrowed one from Entertainment House (Clive there is an enormously enthuiastic person and passionate about Bose, and also has a big rehearsal hall where you can try out the equipment, which was why I finally settled on the Bose route. For UK residents go see at CRS1 ) - I had asked to borrow one but he leant me one free and last night I played in a largish Hotel Banqueting Suite sitting 400 or so at round tables of 10, + a dance floor.

I played firstly for background stuff during dinner - it was a Charity and guests had to donate to make music requests - and because it was a charity, I'd leant my MSR400 to the Salsa dance chap (in a different room). I then played to accompany two well-known singers and finally - after the gambling-type cabaret, (no music from me) played for dancing.

I wouldn't normally drivel on about all this except it gave me a chance to hear the effect of the second Bass in a varity of musical modes. I had forgotten when I first started my first sound check, that I had last left the ToneMatch on Low Volume Music, where the Bass is accentuated. The immediate effect to me was startling - too much bass, but no distortion. I sweitched back to my normal setting and tried it up to quite a high volume - terrific sound.

Then during the background stuff (Ugh!) and particularly during the accompanying, the addition diodn't show much. But it was another low ceiling room packed with people. Now I know that we all know that people absorb sound, but this was extreme. But the clarity of the mid/upper ranges was such that I could play pretty quietly, and an organiser girl went round during all 3 parts to give me feedback on volume level all round the room. She said she could hear it perfectly everywhere, even through the chatter-level of the guests during dinner. I was amazed.

I still had plenty in reserve during the dancing part where the young wanted me to rachet it up a bit.

Tomorrow night I have the oportunity to try the MSR400 as a Bass. I'll follow your guidance as per your posting. And I shall certainly be upgrading with a second Bose Bass Module and have total confidence in being able to cope with the Club venue I described above. It's an awful lot lighter than the MSR400 which is a real whale!

Now I'll be saving up for 2 x Compacts to play Stereo at home (and new flight cases, and......so on). Never stops does it? Such is progress.

Freddie

Hi Freddie,

Thank you for taking the time to tell us how things went at the show.

We are all learning together so this kind of follow up information is invaluable.

It's sounds like you were pleased. Terrific!

Please come back and tell us about the result with the MSR400 too.

Thanks again!

Well I eventually did this gig on Remembrance Day (the equivalent of Veterans' Day in the USA, I think?). Playing and singing non-stop for 6 hours at this British Legion Club. There were 2 Guest contingents, 1 from a group of ANZAC (Australia, New Zealand & Canada)soldiers/sailors and 1 of of many of the old Dunkirk Veterans from 1940 - wonderful old boys who all sang at the tops of their voices when I played a lot of the old wartime songs they love and know so well. Lots of very emotional and patriotic moments ending with 'Rule Britannia', 'Land of Hope & Glory' etc. Really tear-jerking.

And - totally an emotional 'wringer', a couple of Songs from a recently wounded soldier about burying his 'best mate' killed in Afghanistan.

What an amazing evening.

Anyway this is the first time I've played in this Club since getting the second B1. Basically, problem solved . Had plenty of volume in reserve. Never more than 50% on the keyboard volume or 66% on all the Trims. I felt really confident (makes SUCH a difference to your playing and the whole way you feel about the gig)

And I didn't take the MSR400 which is now up for sale.

But the memory of that day is one now of happy smiling faces, people standing on chairs waving Union Jacks asnd roaring (I can't think of a better word) out the songs at such a volume, I couldn't believe it - a huge outpouring of emotion in the Finale Songs (which I'm afraid milked shamelessly) and so all in all a great gig. What a difference a B1 makes!

Freddie

Sounds great Freddie. I would have loved to been there.
One of those gigs that is so right, makes up for the tough ones.
Glad it went so well.

Respect,
Col. Andy

Thanks Andy. Absolutely right. I'll remember that night for the rest of my life. And if I can do something for those old chaps who did so much for 'us' then I'm even happier.

Freddie