I'm kicking around the idea of doing some solo sets in local restaurants, and clubs maybe. Still a number of questions to be answered before I do it, but one issue is amplification.

I anticipate doing my own sound, and simplicity is a high priority. If I do this, I will go with the Bose L1 Compact system, which has two inputs: an XLR for a vocal mic, and a 1/4 plug for a guitar. My thinking has been along the lines of a vocal mic on a stand with a gooseneck, and a soundhole pickup with the line coming from the pickup out of the soundhole and into the Bose. I know soundhole pickups are mediocre compromises at best, but I don't want to be anchored to a guitar mic on a stand, and I won't modify my guitar for a pickup system that includes drilling, etc.

But I've been wondering about using a single condenser mic for both vocals and guitar, similar to the setup I see bluegrass bands working around one mic. It seems as if it would be wonderfully easy to just run one mic for everything into the XLR connector. Why wouldn't this be a good idea? Would I have to worry about the mic picking up too much crowd noise, given that conversation, utensil noise, people moving about will be part of the environment? Would I have to worry about feedback, or is this an issue with L1s?

I know I'm a novice, and these questions may seem stupid. But...is this a workable solution? What else should I be thinking about? Thanks for any help you can provide!

B

Hi Bryant,

Because the L1 Compact is designed to be behind the performer the Large Diaphragm condenser mics are not the best choice, especially when trying to pick up two sources that have distance between them, like your vocal and guitar. Feedback is likely to be an issue.

There are some good soundhole pickups available, and even the lowest priced ones will probably give better overall results than micing because it simpifies the setup.

I setup for a demo a while back and one band member had a $40 Seymour Duncan soundhole pickup, sounded pretty good. I remember thinking at the time that it would be cheap insurance to have one in the guitar case, if a cord was broken or a battery went dead.

Go with your anticipation in paragraph two of your post. You can refine your setup as you gain experience.

O..

Hi Bryant,

"Utensil noise"...lol. Good stuff.

Anyway, you're just not going to get the same sound from your "Love of My Life" guitar when you play live - whatever sound hole pickup you use.

Unless you're playing un-plugged gigs in your living room, (and content to invite 6 people to come over and not talk while you play) you will need to sacrifice.

While nothing compares to the sound of a top-flight instrument in a proper acoustic AND respectful environment, good luck finding those environments.

You may wish to consider acquiring a lesser-priced but better-suited guitar for your gigs. My finding is that the better a guitar sounds unplugged, the worst nightmare you will have trying to capture that sound in a live situation. So don't even bother. Save your time and money.

Only worry about condenser mics - and their placement - when you're recording.

Get a good Ovation or Tak for your gigs. Go ahead and laugh, but they sound better PLUGGED IN than any Taylor, Gibson, Martin, or Breedlove.

Mind you, I own a Taylor 410 (with the really bad first-release Expression System) and a Martin DC-28E. But, I use a $400 G-Series Tak when I play live. Only because it sounds much better plugged in...to me, anyway.

Also, try not to predicate anything you do on Bluegrass bands that use a "centered" condenser mic when they play live. That won't work for you, for a variety of reasons.

All this is just my opinion and experience, not fact. Everyone in this community will offer you exactly the same in this regard. So pick, choose, experiment, and just keep playing.

And remember:

No matter what guitar or mic you bring to a gig, just bring a Bose Stick and you're good to go. And that IS a fact...lol.

Dennis

There are so many reasons we get into the business of making music, but for many of us it started with a dream.

There are even more obstacles and pitfalls that keep us from being as successful as we might have once dreamed.

Why then do we that are experienced, think the first thing a self proclaimed novice might need is a different guitar. We don't know anything about the instrument except that the owner respects it enough not to want to use a drill on it. We should not place unneccessary obstacles in the path of an aspiring artist, instead offer encouragement, a little helpful guidance, enough light for him to find his own way.

Check this out;

http://www.musiciansfriend.com...dhole+guitar+pickups

O..

quote:

Originally posted by Oldghm:
There are some good soundhole pickups available, and even the lowest priced ones will probably give better overall results than micing because it simpifies the setup.

I keep one of these in my gig bag, and I can't even play a guitar.
It's come in handy a few times.

Thanks, guys, for your very useful responses. About to show my ignorance again, let me just ask, thinking back to a previous performance life where I ran two mics through a small amp/speaker combo, I had to have mics behind the speaker (off to the side, of course) to avoid serious feedback. So having the L1 behind me sounds weird. Are there no feedback issues this way, and how does one deal with them if there are?

Great forum, by the way.

Bryant

Hi Bryant,

Sound hole pickups are great for loud stage situations. The venues you describe sound like relatively quiet ones.

If you want natural sound combined with excellent ease of use, I'd recommend K&K Pure Western mini. I have them on four guitars. The sound so natural my friends can close their eyes and tell me which guitar I'm playing.

Don't let the low price fool you. These are WONDERFUL pickups. Check out reviews on Harmony Central and elsewhere. K&K mini has the lowest rate of negative reviews I've ever seen.

Here is a clip of my Larrivee OM-05MT "mahogany top." It is the only direct recording (via K&K) on my 2nd CD. Most folks don't even notice.

To hear it go here: https://www.cdbaby.com/cd/berchtold2 , and click on The Fisherman.

Hope this helps!
David

This message has been edited. Last edited by: dberch,

Hi Bryant,

quote:

Originally posted by Bryant:
Thanks, guys, for your very useful responses. About to show my ignorance again, let me just ask, thinking back to a previous performance life where I ran two mics through a small amp/speaker combo, I had to have mics behind the speaker (off to the side, of course) to avoid serious feedback. So having the L1 behind me sounds weird. Are there no feedback issues this way, and how does one deal with them if there are?

Great forum, by the way.

Bryant

The L1®s aren't impervious to feedback but, because of how well they project sound you typically don't need as much volume on stage you might have needed with other systems. So you are not running as loud - so this means less likelihood of feedback - even if the microphones are in front of the L1®s.

Since you are not using monitors, or rather since the L1® is serving the room and you for monitoring you have sound coming toward the microphone (basically) from one direction. This means that it is easier to position the microphone to avoid feedback.

For more thoughts about dealing with feedback when it happens please see this article.

See: Microphone Feedback in the wiki.

Does that help?

Hi Bryant,

Don't ask me how it works, but the L1s are designed to be worked in front of.

Feedback can occasionally raise it's ugly head but with just a little care you can work feedback free.

Some of the things that can cause feedback are;

Mic placement and angle.

Multiple mics.

Too Much volume.

Exaggerated eq.

Some users like to work in front of and off to one side or the other. I prefer to work directly in front whenever possible.

Learning to work with lips touching or very, very close to the mic is probably the single most important thing in preventing feedback.

Adjusting the mic to point on a line that if projected into space would miss the top of the L1, can be very helpful.

One open mic per system is the most desirable, but with care you can use a couple. Each open mic makes feedback more likely.

The L1s project the sound deeper into an audience with less volume than conventional speakers. Once you adjust to this feature volume should not be an issue in any but the loudest venues.

If you are happy with a very natural sound, that also helps reduce the potential for feedback. It seems that those who like the Big Gig, rumble and sizzle sound have more feedback problems.

The Compact has enough eq on the vocal mic channel to enhance any vocal into feedback range. Just keep it real and you'll get along just fine.

The guitar channel has a fixed preset for eq. Bose knows what they are doing and this preset will provide good sound with a variety of guitars and pickups. Sometimes being too close to the speaker can cause low end rumble with an acoustic guitar. In most cases that can be addressed with just a minor move of you, the guitar, or the speaker.

There is a bit of a learning curve, but nothing you can't handle by just spending some time playing around with your L1 and, ... there's always someone here to answer questions.

O..

PS. I had company come in while writing, didn't realize ST had posted. If you follow his links you will find good things.

O.K. I think I've got enough info to let this part of the process simmer for a while. Very useful to have some measured voices of experience inform my decision making. If I decide to make this happen, I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks so much. Best!

Bryant

Hi David,
I'm wondering if you are using a preamp with your K&K 's, or if you are going directly into the T1. Do you mind letting us know which presets you are using. Thanks, Mark

Tonehead, At my first gig with the T1 I tried with and without my K&K Pure XLR preamp. It sounded better with. Without the preamp the sound was bass heavy, and had a bit of quack, and less wood and air. In my experience these are the typical clues that you have an impedance miss-match with the K&K. Granted, I could tweak the T1 and get a good sound without the preamp. But in my opinion, the improvement is well worth using the preamp.

I am using the Acoustic Steel String w/ Condenser preset, and I use the para EQ to simulate a high pass filter to control low freq pop/boom from aggressive playing and palm muting around the bridge. I use a thumb pick and bare fingers and I palm mute and bang on my strings pretty hard.

Para EQ for "high-Pass" as suggested by ST:
Level: -15 dB (I'm using -10)
Frequency: 50 Hz
Width: 0.80 Octave

These settings allow me to play plugged in exactly the way I play unplugged. Don't have to change my style at all.

Cheers,
David

This message has been edited. Last edited by: dberch,

Hi David,

When you ran straight into the T1® - did you use Channel 4/5?

T1® Channels 1,2,3 are designed to provide a good impedance match for a passive piezo pickup without a preamp - and I get very good results doing just that. If I run into Channel 4/5 the results are not less than optimal.

quote:

From the wiki :
The Tip-Sleeve inputs are high impedance so you can plug in an acoustic guitar with passive piezo pickup or any other passive instrument directly without a pre-amp. Input impedance on Channels 1,2,3 is about 1 MOhm. Channels 4 and 5 have an input impedance of about 10 kOhm.

See: T1® Inputs for more details.

quote:

Originally posted by ST:
When you ran straight into the T1® - did you use Channel 4/5?.

Hi ST - My guitar always goes to Ch1. iPod, if in use, goes to ch 4/5.