Hello,
I'm in a new bluegrass band and we are looking into buying a PA system. I've read great things about the L1 system including it's sound quality and ease of setup. Our band consists of 2 acoustic guitars, bass, mandolin and sometimes a fiddle or banjo. The venues would only be small restaurants, etc.
We would like to sing and play around one mike. We do a lot of harmonizing and the guitar,mandolins etc. take instrumental breaks.
Could you please suggest what equipment we would need including what type and brand of mics would be best. I don't mind spending money for a very good mic also.
It would also be helpful to draw the best configuration to be on stage with the mics and equipment.
I look forward to hearing your input!
Thanks,
Renna

Hello Renna,

I am glad you joined the forum.

For this many performers, I think you may have a challenge working with a single L1 with a single microphone.

There is an interesting article about using two microphones with all the same choreography you might expect with one. Please take a look at this and let us know your thoughts about applying those principles to your situation.

Here is the article:

Bluegrass

Also, could you tell us a bit about the kinds of places you expect to be playing? Size, number of people, types of events...?

Finally, if you have a few minutes you could show us how you normally like to arrange yourselves on stage. We have an online tool for that. Please see:

The Sketcher



Thank you.

Dear ST,
Thank you for your quick response. I sent the sketcher and I hoped it worked. We will be playing small venues restaurants, galleries and companies etc. We played at a nursing home last week with no sound system and they had trouble hearing us.
I've read the bluegrass thread, but it starts to get confusing when other bands start telling what they are doing. If you could tell us exactly what we should use, that would be great! I also read about the mic. that they thought was best.
I look forward to hearing from you again.
Renna

Hi Renna,

Thanks for using The Sketcher! Here is your Sketch.


-- click image to make changes to the live version --

Legend:

Orange numbers are Systems and Inputs using those Systems.
Green numbers are for general notes about the Sketch and connections to non-Bose gear.

Quoting Renna from The Sketcher

quote:

Here is the order that we think would be best.We are still trying to figure the best way to stand.

I'm going to be away from my keyboard most of the day, so let's hope some folks who play Bluegrass will have some input.

I'll add my 2 cents.

If was starting out new, I would borrow an L1 and see if this is the route you want to go. Single mic is definitely harder to make work. When I say make work, I mean get loud enough before the terrible squeal begins.

First you'll need a very one-sided condenser mic such as the Shure KSM27 (around $200). Next, you'll need the L1 out front and to the side. You'll have to sing very close and play very close to the mic. Set your trim just right. Work the presets but I would start with the "High Gain" setting first and then peel the highs off on the remote. You'll very soon be able to hear just how loud you can get. Your group will need to listen for monitor.

Tools of the trade for our group when using the condenser mic is the Sabine FBX SM-820. It's a nice little device that notches out 8 different bad freqs. To set up you bring up the channel levels till it begins to begins to squeal and it will start it's magic of cutting that bad freqs out, one by one. You then bring back down the channel level and until your comfortable and this is now the max gain before feedback. This will be he max volume for the house. Bose does not endorse this way of reducing feedback, but it does work for our group.

You can also use the above setup on the the RT side and setup another one for the LT side.

For louder venues, we have just conceded. We plug-in (guitar and bass) and use Audix OM5 vocal mics.

I hope this helps. Good luck.
James
www.libertybluegrassband.com

Thank you James. Do you have 2 L1's or 1?
So the Sabine FBX is a feedback eliminator?
I'm jealous you all are in Wisconsin! It's way to hot down here in Texas!

Thanks again for your input.

Renna

Hi Renna ~

I play the upright bass in a similar configured band as yours...three other guys and they all play multiple instruments; guitar, mandolin, banjo, and fiddle. Paxflyer in right on the money with all his points. Single condenser mics are difficult to work in a stage setting, and still get enough volume, except for the most attentive audiences and venues. In louder venues, you're going to want to think about "plugging-in". You could also think about using separate vocal and instrument mics or maybe a combination of a single condenser mic (such as the KSM27) for vocals and then use dynamic mics (such as Shure SM57 or similar) for the instruments.

You can start with a single L1® Model I or II, a single B1, and possibly a T1 ToneMatch® engine or small mixer. You can probably make this work just fine for a combo in a small restaurant setting. Another alternative is to think about maybe two (or more) L1® Compact systems, (one for each of you would be ideal!) which would probably work in a small restaurant setting just fine. Many benefits are derived when each musician/vocalist has their own unit. Here's some reading for you on why each musician benefits from having their own unit.

If I were you, I'd get with the guys in the band and head down to your local Guitar Center in Houston and check out the options in the L1® System family. If you have more questions or need some clarification on things, just let us know. What do you think?

John

We use one Classic L1, one Model 1 L1 and double B1s (4 total).
Yes, Sabine makes a nice unit.

I agree w/ John. March your whole band down to Guitar center and play a show in the store w/ the Bose L1, mics and whatever else you are considering. It's allot of fun and will make you more at ease with your purchase.

Jealous now? Wait until Jan and tell me your jealous. If I could follow the perfect 72F wx job, I would take it!

Good luck.
James

Do you use the ToneMatch mixer also?
Thanks for both of your replies!

Renna

Hi again Renna ~

Yes, we use the T1 ToneMatch® Audio engine in our band. Actually, we use two of them. You can review some of my sketches in JohnNell sketches to get a feeling about how we do it with just one L1® System. Since we now have two L1® Model II systems, you may see some sketches using both systems and the T1 ToneMatch® units. But, you'll get the idea of how you could use just one T1 ToneMatch® and a single L1® Model I, if that's the route you take. With a L1® Model I and T1 ToneMatch®, you'd have 7 inputs (possibly 8, depending on how you used Ch. 4/5 on the T1). That may, or may not be enough inputs for your band, since you mentioned your band does a lot of harmonizing.

The ToneMatch® mic presets are really nice, and the entire T1 offers so many options as a mixer. I realize it's a little pricey, compared to other mixers, but I think you'd be very happy with it after just a few gigs. It's hard for me to explain its "tone quality" in words, you'll have to use and listen to it.

Another Bluegrass band here, Dehlia Low, uses a Mackie DFX12 mixer in their band. Do a search on YouTube for some of their video recordings and take a listen. They obviously have it worked out with the Bose L1® system and the mixer! Their mic setup might be of interest to you, also.

Hope some of this helps you along the way. Let us know if we can answer anything else for you.

John

quote:

I don't mind spending money for a very good mic also.

I just re-read your initial post and will give you my two cents on this statement. We now use Shure SM81 mics (condenser variety) for the guitars and mandolins. I'd use them for the fiddle and banjo too, if money wasn't an object! I find them very transparent in amplifying these instruments, with little or no coloration added. They're not cheap, but in my opinion, very good microphones for amplifying acoustic instruments. The banjo and fiddle guys usually end up with a Shure PG81, AKG C1000s, or Shure SM57, depending on the gig.

I don't have enough experience with a large condenser mic to give you any advice for a single vocal microphone, so I'll leave that to someone else to chime-in here.

Does each musician and vocalist have their own mic?

Yes, in my band, they each have their own.

Thanks for all your input!

Renna

Ok JohnNell and Paxflyer,
Which would be better? The L1 model 1 or L1 model 2. It seems by all the posts that 2 L1's would be best. I guess it gives a richer sound?
I went to Guitar Center and they were clueless. I had to beg for them to hook up music to it so we could hear the L1's. So today we went to the Bose Store in Houston and they were much more helpful. Just wanted to see what you thought about model 1 vs model 2. The model 1 has more inputs. Is that an advantage? Look forward to hearing your advice.